hi , i finally got to starting the car after my 700r4 to T5 swap...it started right up and with no issues...i backed it out of the garage and it all went great! ...except one thing ,,i can't engage gears with engine on without grinding,,,the gear won't go in ,,,if i shut the car off and then put it in 1st or reverse..it will go in and i need to start the car again and it will go again as i let go the clutch ,,is it my slave cylinder?..still not bled enough?...thankyou.

 

it almost sounds like your input shaft is stuck to the pilot bearing.

 

Make sure that your shift fork and throw out bearing are aligned properly. It doesn't take much to bleed the system.

 

really?..the input shaft and pilot bushing are stuck?..the T5 went in pretty easy enough ...how do i fix this?...have you ever heard of this...to be able to shift only when the car is off....but with the car on and in gear ...the clutch works fine and the car moves...

 

I would agree that it's more likely your shift fork.
With a stock bellhousing, the pivot ball has no adjustment.

With your lakewood bellhousing, you may have to adjust the pivot ball.
Is this easy to do once the trans is in?
I would try to move the pivot ball farther out, towards the engine, just in case the slave cylinder pushrod is all the way out, when the pedel is depressed, but not fully dis-engageing the clutch.

I hope this helps.

 

yes, it can be adjusted from outside the bellhousing ..i will try to bring it closer to the engine as you say...but can the pilot bushing be actually stuck to the input shaft?...that worries me....thanks.

 

If you can start the car in gear, with the clutch pedal down, and the car doesn't move until the clutch pedal is released, then I don't think your input shaft is stuck to the pilot bushing.

 

I've seen this a lot, and it happened to me... if your clutch hydraulics are not properly bled, you will have this problem.

If you bleed the clutch the same way that you bleed brakes, it will not get all the air out. Here is a link to the proper way to bleed the system:

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tran...ed-clutch.html

 

hi, i think you may be right...i bled according to this article here you provided,,but the step with the rod pushed all the way and then have the helper push down screws up everytime...after i do this step ,,the pedal is soft again ...i screwed the pivot ball in a few more millimeters...won't go in more unless i remove the bellhousing and adjust it more(don't want to do that!!),,but it seems out far enough on the fork...i guess i need to bleed more as you say ?...thankyou...

 

We found that you have to do that step several times, and that afterward, the pedal will seem soft until you have depressed the clutch fully a few times. In fact, right after we did it, I suspected that we were going to end up replacing something... after driving the car for an hour or so, everything was nice and smooth and we have had no problems since.

 

ok..i'll try to bleed it again and again...besides that ,,,do you think anything else i should worry about?..i think i installed it all the way it should be......thanks.

 

Well, obviously, you need to have done everything else correctly. From what you say, it seems as though you have.

I'm curious... I am about to do the T5 swap on my 88 GTA. It's a TPI 305. How does the car respond with the 5-speed compared to the auto? Just curious what I have to look forward to.

 

well, i can't tell you yet..i can't shift gears!!..i backed it out of the gagrage and then put in 1st with the engine off and then started it up and put it back in the garage!!...that's exactly what i wanted to see too...the difference between the auto to T5...i guess i will have to work on it more and get it going....

 

If you can start the engine in 1st and the car doesn't creep, you should be able to drive it that way.

Once the car is rolling, you should have no problem shifting even if the clutch does not fully disengage. You would probably have trouble at rest, and going from first to reverse and back.

You will probably find that sometimes it will go from neutral to first, and other times you will have to shut the engine down. That was our experience. However, I understand your reluctance to drive the car with that problem.

 

i guess bleeding it more to firm up the pedal is what i should do?..do want to take it on the road and grind gears!...

 

Well, yes, it would appear that you need to do that. As I said before, with my son's car, the problem was inconsistent. At times, I could shift into reverse and back the car out of the garage, and then maybe it would not go into first. Then I'd shut the car off, and shift into first, start it back up, and then I could drive the car in the forward gears. Sometimes when I would stop, I would have to shut the engine off to put it back into first.

Then we did the bleed the proper way (I did some research and found the procedure). After that, it was a lot better, and after the first hour or so of driving the car, it worked perfectly from then on. I have heard from other people here that sometimes you have to drive the car a little before it finally is right.

 

that's exactly what happened...i need to shut the car off to switch gears ,,,didn't try it on the road ,,was afraid i woudn't make it back!,,,i will bleed it again ,,,but it's the part wher i push the cylinder rod in that screws me up everytime...any other way?..do you have a trick?.....thankyou.

 

No, sorry... no trick. I just pushed backward on the clutch fork until the pushrod bottomed out, cracked the bleeder screw, and then told my son to slowly push the clutch pedal until it hit the floor. When it hit the floor, I told him to hold it there, and then I closed the bleeder. We did that about 3-4 times.

 

ok,,so you did that step 3-4 times in a row?..i thought you bled the sydtem first 6-7 times and then do that step once,,,,and re-bleed again,,,i guess i should try doing that step 3-4 times in a row like you did and then that's it?

 

That's what worked for me.

 

if you have gears, 3.23 or numerically higher you will love the T5. My friend converted his 88 Formula to a T5 about 5 years ago and had many different gear sets, 3.42, 3.73, and 4.10's.

 

Don,t take this wrong but did you put new grease,oil in your T5? I put 85/90 and did not know any better. It acted just like yours is until I found out that it needs atf. That was after I pulled it twice and replaced clutch, flywheel,every thing only to realize I had the wrong fluid.

 

WC T5 requires ATF. NWC has been found to have both ATF and gear oil, and there are different schools of thought on that. Even GM was not consistent in their published requirements.

Bob Hanlon of Hanlon Motorsports, who is my transmission guru of choice, always recommends ATF in all T5s.

 

i bled it again , i pushed in the cylinder rod in and opened the bleeder and let the helper push the pedal all the way down and closed the bleeder quickly...i did this 3 times....the pedal seems to be a little firmer, but not hard...i looked through the openeing on the bellhousing where the for goes in ,,,as the helper pushes the pedal to the carpet, the fork is pushing the bearing and i can see it moving the clutch fingers...i haven't started it yet,,,but it seems to be functioning fine at least...can we put something on the cylinder rod end to give it a few millimeters closer to the fork therefore pushing the bearing in more?..some kind of rubber spacer?... i have atf oil in my T5, but it seemed to have 80/90 in it ...does it matter that the 2 oils mix a bit?....thankyou.

 

I don't know that changing the rod length will matter. I haven't played with that. The hydraulics may compensate for a longer pushrod.

As far as the oil is concerned, as long as your transmission is not a WC, it won't kill it to have a small amount of the other oil in it. The WC T5 needs to use ATF because of the special blocker rings it uses. I'm not sure if 'contaminating' the ATF with a small amount of gear oil will hurt them. I'd ask the people at Hanlon... but if it is a NWC trans, it'll be fine.

Based on the pedal being firmer now, I'd be inclined to drive the car and see how it works.

 

hanlon?

 

Hanlon Motorsports.

 

The only drawback for me was...I didn't have a cup holder when going through the gears...kinda cumbersome...The swap made a huge difference on our Z28 with 3:27 gears. our donor car was a 89 IROC. More fun, Much faster, Sounds great!!!

 

so with my 3.23 posi gears and 350 , the T5 should really make the car take off? much more fun to drive...i bled the system again ...i will start it tomorrow and see if i can change gears without having to shut the engine off...

 

Absolutely! It's nice to have a daily driver w/3:20 something gears and still get a decent hole shot on the street and decent gas mileage. You will be able to stay in your power range a little longer before you shift out. Too low gear will make the car less street-able. I really think you will enjoy your setup once you get this clutch issue resolved. I would jack up the rear axle and set it on stands and then cut a piece of wood or something and wedge the fork arm to the max distance to disengage the clutch and then start it up and go through the gears, start it up in gear and observe the wheel movement...If its not disengaging, there is a problem with the clutch assembly.

 

thanks, i can't wait to drive it with the T5...i just hope i figure what's wrong first....

 

Keep us posted on your progress, I would like to know the actual problem for future reference....

 

mooch, where are you at now? Have you tried driving it since you did the bleed?

BTW, IIRC the travel on the pushrod is supposed to be about a half inch.

 

hi, thanks for the help....i'm at the same point right now....i bled it again ,,,the pushrod does move about that half an inch now,,,i can see through the boot on the bellhousing...when the clutch pedal is pressed by a helper the fork pushes the bearing onto the fingers of the clutch pressure plate...i also, with the bleeding, i advanced my adjustable pivot ball out a few mm...,,i'm hoping with these 2 little adjustments it will fix my problem...i haven't started it yet to see if it will shift with engine on because i took appart the front coils to be replaced,,,i should finish up soon and start the car and see,,,,,i am happy to save anyone out there some grief once i get this going.....thankyou.

 

How is the progress going???

 

Actually I found a problem with mine after I built a motor, the machine shop that got me a new flywheel had bought the same tooth count and diameter, however the thickness was not even close to the stock one causing my shifts to be all messed up. It's a possibility, not a good one. Just thought I'd share as an "if all else fails" check. Good luck with the T5 though, once it goes, you'll love it

 

hi , i have bled it again and again ,,,no air is in there anymore i'm sure,,,haven't had time to work on the car more in the last little while because of work ,,i will try to start it this weekend and see if it will shift without grinding when engine is on, or better yet- just be able to insert the gears with engine on period!! ....i thought about the flywheel too...but i sent a freind of mine a pic of my flywheel and he said it looked fine...i will post results..if it doesn't work all good ,,,well i don't know what else to do....

 

how is your swap going?

 

If you were directing that at me...

I had to take a month or so off from my GTA to complete some Honey-Do's... including putting up a storage shed and cleaning out the garage so "Honey" could park her car inside.

My final task is to prepare a clean workbench surface (it's an awful mess now) in the garage so that I may begin the teardown and rebuild of my WC T5.

In the meantime, the GTA's radiator has sprung a leak...

 

same here. i haven't worked on my car for at least 2-3 weeks since i bled it the last time and adjusted the pivot ball, no time with work etc... ...i will try to start it up this weekend and try it out with the gears....

 

hi there ,,,thankyou to all that replied and helped,,,i started my car up yesterday and it was fantastic!...the car shifts well and no grinding except for my bad shifting !!...all gears go in smooth and shift well...i bled the system and advanced my adjustable pivot ball a few millimeters out and voila!...it's so fun to have a manual...is it true that my stock shifter stinks?....that a new 5.0 shifter would be more exact in shifting...also they sell a copper bushing for where the shifter attaches to the gears in the t5 box, this is better than the plastic cheap one ...any truth to all this?....thanks again..

 

I was pretty sure that you would have success... that's great news!

 

thanks, i almost gave up and called it a day!...but i left the car alone for a few weeks due to work and stuff like that ..and with a fresh mind i went at it again....and got it to work...any truth to the shifters on these T5s...are they really that bad?

 

I have heard that, but I am not really sure why. It may have something to do with how hard you drive the car. Again, I hate to sound like a broken record, but I'm sure that Bob Hanlon at Hanlon Motorsports could give you a good answer. I seem to recall him saying that the stock shifter isn't the greatest.

 

That's great! How do you like streeeeching out 2nd & 3rd gears?

 

I finally got my interior back together, I went back with a factory leather shift ****.

 

it's great!....i love a manual car like this...it's so much fun and with the manual you can just shift as you like and not be confined with an automatic...i only drove it for about 15 minutes..it ran and shifted real good...i just had to adjust my e-brake a little ...these pbr rear calipers don't hold the car down a driveway even with the e-brake on ...oh well...i went from open diff to a posi ,,,then from drums at the back to pbr caliper disc brakes with ed miller fab brackets...now from 700r4 to T5 ...i did this all winter ...was a busy one for me....it was possible to do all this because of 3rdgen....thanks to all....i hope now for me, that i can just drive and enjoy this car for the summer.....thanks again.

 

Here is a pic from about six months ago...

 

wow. looks like a real big job you had there...it always looks bad at the begining when a big project starts and then once things are put back together it looks fine...

 

Thanks, Where I have the most fun with the 5 spd is when I'm rolling around 10mph in first and I romp on the gas pedal and the tires brake loose for a bit and I speed shift to second gear, oh so much fun!!!!! Yeeehaaa!!!! Got to love a 3rd Gen!!!