4L80E Swap
09-18-2010, 04:14 PM
#1
4L80E Swap
Well after destroying my fair share of 700R4's and 4L60E's it is time to step up and install a 4L80E. I have done some searching but I haven't really found any good swap threads for the 3rd gen crowd so I figured I will start one.
I started off by measuring my engine angle. I also measured the angle of the rear end housing since the torque arm mount will change too. I want to make sure I get everything installed at the same angle.
I started off by measuring my engine angle. I also measured the angle of the rear end housing since the torque arm mount will change too. I want to make sure I get everything installed at the same angle.
09-18-2010, 04:19 PM
#2
Re: 4L80E Swap
I am using empty cases to work with, it is much easier then fighting with a loaded transmission.
Here is the X-member I am working with. It is an older Spohn piece with a driveshaft loop and torque arm mount.
Here is the X-member I am working with. It is an older Spohn piece with a driveshaft loop and torque arm mount.
Last edited by jonarotz; 09-19-2010 at 10:16 AM.
09-19-2010, 10:25 AM
#3
Re: 4L80E Swap
From what I have read, people have talked about massaging or hammering the floor pan to make clearance, but from what I see I don't have to hammer anything. Most people say that the two humps on the top of the case cause a problem, but I have at least an inch of clearance in this area after I bring my engine to the proper angle.
09-19-2010, 10:35 AM
#4
Re: 4L80E Swap
It looks like my biggest obsticle is going to be the crossmember and torque arm mount. With the design of this older Spohn torque arm the front mount will be so close to the trans mount. I think I might need to shorten the torque arm to make things work.
09-19-2010, 11:09 AM
#5
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Car: 92 Firebird
Engine: Supercharged 6.0
Transmission: T56
Axle/Gears: 8.8 3.73
Re: 4L80E Swap
How do you plan to control the 80E? None of the 3rd gen ECMs can manage it and aftermarket computers are very expensive
09-19-2010, 11:22 AM
#6
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Car: 2003 F-150
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Re: 4L80E Swap
I'm thinking, seeing as how he already has a TCI TCU for the 4L60E, that he's going to have TCI trade or reflash it to work a 4L80E.
09-19-2010, 11:30 AM
#7
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Car: 92 Firebird
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Re: 4L80E Swap
For that much effort, Id build an OBDII TPI harness and just reflash the LSx PCM. Benefits all around
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09-28-2010, 05:52 PM
#10
Re: 4L80E Swap
Well I have been hard at work on the X-member so I figured I would post up some progress pics.
I first started with making the trans mount plate along with the two chassis mounts. To locate them in relationship to the transmission I made up some locating mounts. Once the location was set I was able to start on bending up the tube.
I first started with making the trans mount plate along with the two chassis mounts. To locate them in relationship to the transmission I made up some locating mounts. Once the location was set I was able to start on bending up the tube.
09-28-2010, 06:01 PM
#11
Re: 4L80E Swap
Here is the X-member installed. It fits really nice as is, but I am going to due some stylizing to the brackets to make it look sleek and custom. I also still need to gusset the trans mount plate. I did notice though that with the mount moved rearward that the X-member acts like a lever and the stock mounting box on the frame flexes a lot. I am going to weld some backing plates to the actual chassis to strengthen this up. With the stress from the torque arm I am worried it would tear the mounts loose.
09-28-2010, 08:28 PM
#12
Re: 4L80E Swap
what if you bent the tubing tighter, flattened the ends and drilled holes in the flattened area to bolt up to the stock holes? if that's not strong enough you could also add a member in there that connects the stock mounting locations, but wraps around the underside of the tranny pan.
i'm watching this build as i'd like to install this same tranny in my '84 TA. i'm going to have subframe connectors in my car so i'm thinking about making the crossmember attach to those pieces. that way the crossmember could be almost straight across the car. have to see how that works with the exhaust though.
last year i put a 4L80E tranny in my '72 camaro, but that install was much easier. i'm using the same TCI TCU that you are. it's a great piece and very user friendly. some day i'd like to get the TCI paddle shifter assembly. pretty slick.
i'm watching this build as i'd like to install this same tranny in my '84 TA. i'm going to have subframe connectors in my car so i'm thinking about making the crossmember attach to those pieces. that way the crossmember could be almost straight across the car. have to see how that works with the exhaust though.
last year i put a 4L80E tranny in my '72 camaro, but that install was much easier. i'm using the same TCI TCU that you are. it's a great piece and very user friendly. some day i'd like to get the TCI paddle shifter assembly. pretty slick.
09-28-2010, 08:33 PM
#13
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Car: 86 berlinetta
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Transmission: built 700r4
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Re: 4L80E Swap
I applaud your efforts in this swap. However, from the looks of the x member you made there will be a lot of torque where the x member bolts to the chassis (even if you reinforce). Have you thought about extending the chassis rails back so the x member can just go straight across? By doing it this way it would seem much stronger.
Just some thought I had and wanted to share.
Just some thought I had and wanted to share.
09-28-2010, 08:58 PM
#14
Re: 4L80E Swap
what if you bent the tubing tighter, flattened the ends and drilled holes in the flattened area to bolt up to the stock holes? if that's not strong enough you could also add a member in there that connects the stock mounting locations, but wraps around the underside of the tranny pan.
i'm watching this build as i'd like to install this same tranny in my '84 TA. i'm going to have subframe connectors in my car so i'm thinking about making the crossmember attach to those pieces. that way the crossmember could be almost straight across the car. have to see how that works with the exhaust though.
last year i put a 4L80E tranny in my '72 camaro, but that install was much easier. i'm using the same TCI TCU that you are. it's a great piece and very user friendly. some day i'd like to get the TCI paddle shifter assembly. pretty slick.
i'm watching this build as i'd like to install this same tranny in my '84 TA. i'm going to have subframe connectors in my car so i'm thinking about making the crossmember attach to those pieces. that way the crossmember could be almost straight across the car. have to see how that works with the exhaust though.
last year i put a 4L80E tranny in my '72 camaro, but that install was much easier. i'm using the same TCI TCU that you are. it's a great piece and very user friendly. some day i'd like to get the TCI paddle shifter assembly. pretty slick.
09-28-2010, 09:06 PM
#15
Re: 4L80E Swap
I applaud your efforts in this swap. However, from the looks of the x member you made there will be a lot of torque where the x member bolts to the chassis (even if you reinforce). Have you thought about extending the chassis rails back so the x member can just go straight across? By doing it this way it would seem much stronger.
Just some thought I had and wanted to share.
Just some thought I had and wanted to share.
I think reinforcing it will eliminate the flex. Extending the frame rails back would have been pretty difficult with the floor pan on our cars. I guess it could be done, but way more work then I wanted tho get into. BMR and others seem to use the same style "loop" design on the 4th gen without probems.
I am open for other thoughts and thanks for yours.
10-08-2010, 06:11 PM
#16
Re: 4L80E Swap
Well time for an update. I have finally made progress on the torque arm mount. I used 1-1/4" x 2" rectangular tubing. I made a delrin bushing to allow the torque arm and mounting plates to rotate. I was going to go with Spohn's "thrustator" but it would have been too wide for my setup.
10-10-2010, 01:32 PM
#17
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Re: 4L80E Swap
I noted a suggestion of using a TCI controller and a 4L80e in this thread. Is anyone currently using such a setup? If so do they get engine compression braking when the transmission is manually shifted into 2nd and or 1st gear via the gear shift lever? Thanks in advance
10-10-2010, 04:34 PM
#18
Re: 4L80E Swap
I was running this same controller on my 60E but I had a pretty loose converter and the engine braking on down shifts was really not there. I can't tell you how it is on the 80E yet, but I imagine it will engine brake like stock.
10-11-2010, 03:12 PM
#19
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Re: 4L80E Swap
hey,
Im new to third gen but ive been using it for information for years. any way, i came across a problem with my transmission. i need relocation brackets for the th350 that i put in it. i found some for $240 and was wondering if anyone knew of a cheaper way to go. i saw the one that jonarotz built and i may go that way. anyone have any other ideas?
Im new to third gen but ive been using it for information for years. any way, i came across a problem with my transmission. i need relocation brackets for the th350 that i put in it. i found some for $240 and was wondering if anyone knew of a cheaper way to go. i saw the one that jonarotz built and i may go that way. anyone have any other ideas?
10-11-2010, 07:13 PM
#20
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Car: 91 Z28
Engine: 6.0 LSX Single turbo
Transmission: 4l80E
Axle/Gears: Moser 9" 3.55
Re: 4L80E Swap
Looks good, im going to be doing the same swap this winter. Is that a full length or short arm? I was thinking of mounting the torque arm the same way with a bmr crossmember but unless its reinforced towards the rear of the crossmember it looks like the crossmember would bend/break on a hard launch.
10-12-2010, 06:21 PM
#21
Re: 4L80E Swap
The torque arm is a standard length Spohn piece. It has been shortened some to work with this X-member.
I don't think the X-member is the weak link, it seems to be where it mounts. The X-member is stout and I could probably lift the car by it but with the mount so far back it really acts like a lever and may stress the front mounts.
I don't think the X-member is the weak link, it seems to be where it mounts. The X-member is stout and I could probably lift the car by it but with the mount so far back it really acts like a lever and may stress the front mounts.
10-13-2010, 07:57 AM
#22
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Car: GTA -89
Engine: Blown 415"
Transmission: 4L80E
Axle/Gears: Strange 12-bolt
Re: 4L80E Swap
I run a TCI and 4L80E, still tweaking the parameters.... Its not so easy with high stall rpm
(Latest issue is it wont unlock TCC until I hit the brakes.......)
(Latest issue is it wont unlock TCC until I hit the brakes.......)
10-26-2010, 09:01 PM
#24
Re: 4L80E Swap
Right now I have the X-member bolted in and the torque arm mounted up. The car is sitting on the ground. I have just been too busy to get back at it right now. I am trying to raise some funds to get the 4L80E rebuild under way too. I will post up any updates when I get some. Thanks for your following and interest.
Last edited by jonarotz; 10-27-2010 at 06:48 AM.
11-04-2010, 09:14 PM
#26
Re: 4L80E Swap
The torque arm is a standard length Spohn piece. It has been shortened some to work with this X-member.
I don't think the X-member is the weak link, it seems to be where it mounts. The X-member is stout and I could probably lift the car by it but with the mount so far back it really acts like a lever and may stress the front mounts.
I don't think the X-member is the weak link, it seems to be where it mounts. The X-member is stout and I could probably lift the car by it but with the mount so far back it really acts like a lever and may stress the front mounts.
on my t56 i plan to take the rear part of the subframe where it slops dn and drill a main hole on each side and then two smaller holes near it.. then I want to take some metal plate (I might use some trailer hitch plates you put in frame rails) weld a nut in the center then slide them down the subframe rail and tack weld them in position so i have two more mounting points further back like the front ones
11-21-2010, 06:27 PM
#27
Re: 4L80E Swap
Well it has been a while, but I finally have the transmission done with some upgrades, Transgo HD2 kit and upgraded sprag. I hope to get this put in soon and get moving forward with the swap.
I still need to purchase a slip yoke for the driveshaft and some other minor stuff to "final" fit the torque arm mount as it is still just tacked into place. I want to make sure I have enough room around the driveshaft yoke before completely welding it.
I still need to purchase a slip yoke for the driveshaft and some other minor stuff to "final" fit the torque arm mount as it is still just tacked into place. I want to make sure I have enough room around the driveshaft yoke before completely welding it.
11-21-2010, 07:15 PM
#28
Re: 4L80E Swap
here are some pictures the first one I sent in the pm but I drew on the second one that was yours from above to show where i'm thinking
this is the 3/8 plates I cut, drilled and tapped to a 10mm x 1.5 thread so it uses the same factory bolt size
you can see a left over trailerhitch plate for an idea of size (plus if a hitch can support that stress using metal that thick and bolts Im sure these plates will be more than enough for this)
*also note I cut a 10mm bolt to stay in there while I fish it into location with the wire through the big oval openings just up the frame near the other bolts
here is the location im thinking... I would drill the in the channel if the original hole wont line up with my plate then 4 smaller holes to tac-weld the plate to the frame
then just extend the trans cross member so it uses the new mounting holes for extra support
this is the 3/8 plates I cut, drilled and tapped to a 10mm x 1.5 thread so it uses the same factory bolt size
you can see a left over trailerhitch plate for an idea of size (plus if a hitch can support that stress using metal that thick and bolts Im sure these plates will be more than enough for this)
*also note I cut a 10mm bolt to stay in there while I fish it into location with the wire through the big oval openings just up the frame near the other bolts
here is the location im thinking... I would drill the in the channel if the original hole wont line up with my plate then 4 smaller holes to tac-weld the plate to the frame
then just extend the trans cross member so it uses the new mounting holes for extra support
11-29-2010, 08:01 PM
#35
Re: 4L80E Swap
I picked up some parts this weekend and things really look good. The driveshaft will fit without modification, other then the new slip yoke. I am using a Spohn driveshaft and it uses the 1350 U-joint.
The torque arm mount also looks good where it is at, so now I can finish welding everything up and add the driveshaft loop.
The torque arm mount also looks good where it is at, so now I can finish welding everything up and add the driveshaft loop.
11-29-2010, 08:05 PM
#36
Re: 4L80E Swap
I also picked up the cooler line fittings so I can just run -6AN line right to the trans. I ordered a new dipstick and tube from gm parts direct. I will post some pics of those when it all arrives. Overall the swap is progressing pretty good. I will post updates as I have them.
12-04-2010, 09:43 PM
#37
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Car: 91 Z28
Engine: 6.0 LSX Single turbo
Transmission: 4l80E
Axle/Gears: Moser 9" 3.55
Re: 4L80E Swap
Did you end up reinforcing the rear of the crossmember or adding a brace to the rear of the tunnel like 88 formula mentioned?
12-05-2010, 09:43 AM
#38
Re: 4L80E Swap
I haven't yet....everything else is done except this. I will wait until I can get it up on a lift at work and build the support.
I have everything welded and the driveshaft loop is welded on. I fought around with the dipstick Friday night. It was a pain in the ***. I would reccomend that anyone interested in this swap use the flexible dipstick from Lokar. I ordered a stock one for a truck and I had to do a lot of cutting and modifying on.
Aside from the extra brace on the rear of the crossmember, the only thing left is the shift cable and bracket.
I will post up some more pics later.
I have everything welded and the driveshaft loop is welded on. I fought around with the dipstick Friday night. It was a pain in the ***. I would reccomend that anyone interested in this swap use the flexible dipstick from Lokar. I ordered a stock one for a truck and I had to do a lot of cutting and modifying on.
Aside from the extra brace on the rear of the crossmember, the only thing left is the shift cable and bracket.
I will post up some more pics later.
12-05-2010, 11:01 AM
#39
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Car: 91 Z28
Engine: 6.0 LSX Single turbo
Transmission: 4l80E
Axle/Gears: Moser 9" 3.55
Re: 4L80E Swap
Are you using the same driveshaft as you were with your 700r. I measured from the bellhousing to the tailshaft on my t56 and it was almost indenticle in length to the 4l80, so im curious if I will be able to use the driveshaft i've already had made. Does the 4l80 have a 27 spline ouput shaft?
01-23-2011, 05:14 AM
#43
01-23-2011, 08:29 AM
#44
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Car: 91 Z28
Engine: 6.0 LSX Single turbo
Transmission: 4l80E
Axle/Gears: Moser 9" 3.55
Re: 4L80E Swap
Yea hows this coming, did you get any time on it yet? I just ordered mine so ill be doing it in a few weeks.
01-23-2011, 09:53 PM
#45
Re: 4L80E Swap
I got the actual swap done...I modified the linkage and everything seems to work good. I have ran it through the gears on the jack stands and pulled it in and out of the garage, but thats about it. I still want to add that additional brace on the back of the crosmember, but that is going to wait until I can drive it up to work...which may be sometime around April or May. This Ohio weather sucks.
01-24-2011, 02:14 PM
#49
Re: 4L80E Swap
Well I would like to thank you guys for bringing this back up...I made a couple brackets today to start working on the support strut. I am going to try to work on it tonight. I will post up some pics if I get a chance to work on it. Thanks for inspiring and motivating me...it gets hard to get motivated in the ice cold winter.
01-24-2011, 08:26 PM
#50
Re: 4L80E Swap
Well I messed with the support strut tonight. I got done what I can at home...unfortunately my welder here at home isn't up to the task of tacking this thick material in place. I will have to get it on a lift and weld the other bracket to the main X-member tube. I basically did what was mentioned earlier in this thread.