neilb

Hey guys, just wondering if anyone has installed the rear diff from a toyota tacoma in one of our cars. The thought came to me today sitting in trade school. These rears are plentiful in the J/Y and are a very similar set up to the popular 9" ford. They use the removable center section and feature press in axle bearings/retainers instead of "C" clips. They have proven to be strong in many 4X4 set ups and there is plenty of aftermarket support for gear ratios/clutch packs etc. The more I think about it, the more I want to look into it further. A few issues to complicate things would be the toyota 6 bolt hub pattern and large axle flange (so custom axles would be required), and obviously the suspension mounting and torque arm mounting, and track width. The same rear is used in the Toyota Tundras and T100, but I believe they are wider, so the tacoma is the logical choice. Rear brakes/parking brakes would also be an issue as the rear drums on those trucks are huge! Maybe aftermarket discs are available, or custom caliper mounts would have to be fabricated.

Any thoughts on this?
The ford 9" is becoming more rare to find used, and the aftermarket units are expensive. Could this be a new source for us?

Edit* this is NOT a debate on manufacturers. Keep it clean.

big gear head

Why in the world would you want to screw up a good Camaro with a piece of crap Toyota part? That's as bad as letting Toyota run in NASCAR!

TheMonster

Stop with the hate, I bet it is a ton of work though. Probably in the end to just drop a ford 9" in, with less hassle/fabrication and probably less money.

neilb

I personally am one who doesn't really care about where or who makes a car. If they make good parts/vehicles, then I like them. Like I said, Toyota has proven themselves to make a good product and I just thought that with the toyota rear end being similar is design to the 9" it just might be an option. Plus I'm a fan of doing thing differently. Besides, Toyota vehicles are built in both Canada and the USA, so as far as I'm concerned there should be no problem with them in NASCAR or any other racing series.

Convoy25

iTrader: (3)

their trucks arent so good

neilb

I agree, I'm not looking to start a fight over brands here, just exploring. Thanks for your honest opinion.

I'm sure a 9" would be cheaper, to a certain extent, not to mention many other diff assemblies. Like I said, just an idea. I want to pursue this a bit further and see if it's even viable. I would like to measure a friends tacoma track width tomorrow (If i remember) and remind myself with the layout of the diff/axle housing. I feel that If i have to weld on new suspension mounts and change bolt patterns on a 9", then it shouldn't be much more difficult on this one. While there is a huge aftermarket supply of 9" rears (and others as well), the J/Y supply is getting thin. These rears are strong, have a huge aftermarket support for parts, and are readily available in just about any J/Y since they've been used for years.

neilb

I drive a Toyota Tundra as my daily driver, and it works just fine. There isn't a manufacturer out there that makes a perfect vehicle.

But like I said this is NOT a debate on brand names, just exploring an idea I felt would be interesting for some people.

//<86TA>\\

iTrader: (14)

i have noticed the axle on these trucks in traffic and wondered the same thing. But honestly, i dont know enough about the rear and exactly what it is or whats available for it to make a real opinion.

You could start by measuring the overall width, hub to hub, and see if its even in the right ballpark as far as width and start there.

Mounting the torque arm would be pretty straight forward, since the case appears to be formed steel, and easy to weld to. After that, the rest of the brackets are pretty straight forward.

Different is always interesting, but not always practical or economical. It may, and probably will end up costing more to build this rear than what you would pay for a bolt in housing and axle package from moser.

big gear head

Don't take this crap too serious. I can't stand Toyota (Nissan, Mazda and all the others too) myself, but if everybody was just like me then I'd get pretty board. Put a Toyota rear end in your Camaro if you want, just don't expect me and others like me to appreciate it. And I don't care where they assemble Toyotas, they are still Japaneese and should not have been allowed in NASCAR. Just my opinion. Like I said before, don't take this crap too serious.

Sandslot

iTrader: (2)

I'm glad to see there are a few of us left....yeah, I know they "build them here", but they're engineered in Japan...good thing to support??

TheMonster

Awww... I love Nissan and Mazda, but nothing other then those 2 makes. I still think that a 9" in the long run would be a lot easier, I would look into it a lot before you ever spend a dime.

Apeiron

I don't know if that's relevant. How many people running a 9" in a thirdgen did it with a weak, stock junkyard rear, instead of a much better third-party offering?

EvilCartman

iTrader: (1)

My daily driver is an 83 Toyota 4x4 with front and rear factory electric lockers added in. Haven't had one lick of problems with the axles and has far far less rattles than my Camaro. If any one of you says yours doesn't rattle too, you either have no interior or are a liar. Problem with Toyota rears are, they're still only a 7.5 - 8 inch ring gear. A 12 bolt or 9 inch will still be the better option and there are plenty out there. If you can't find one, save your pennies and buy an aftermarket one. I bought a 9 inch rear from Currie minus the 3rd member which I got from a friend.

As for all the idiots complaining where the Toyota brand is from, just have a look at all your electronic devices. Where are they made? Where's their company based out of? Are you posting from an all American made computer? I think not.

1fastcamaro88

dislike this!, i think your better off going with a 9" its jus not worth the money or effort IMO

jmd

iTrader: (4)

Let's see. The sole benefit of it you've mentioned is junkyard availability compared to a Ford 9". What from a junkyard Ford 9" fits a third gen? The housing and carrier and that's it. Pretty much every other piece needs modified.

Being like a Ford 9" isn't necessarily a benefit as the Ford 9" is popular because of easy of gear changes. Not because of ultimate strength or parasitic loss (there are better options in either case due to the case size around the pinion and the pinion height relative to the ring gear, respectively.

91 zeee

seems like an awful lot of work to go through to have a rear that is really no better or no worse than what you have now. I know, I know.... there are hundreds of stories of the GM rears failing (it is the same with Toyota too though; as I personally l know 2 guys that have had this happen).
If you are doing it simply to have something different, then it makes sense to me. If you are doing it for a better rear; not so much. I think once you start putting some serious power to it, it will be as likely as anything else out there to fail (maybe more likely) and possibly a little more expensive to modify/repair.
just my .02.
I dont want to keep this brand thing going, but I can't help it........ I live in America and I would rather support American companies if I have a choice. Unfortunatley, if we all adopt the attitude that it doesn't matter if it's American or not, one day America wont make anything anymore. I just don't see anything good coming from that...... guess maybe thats why I drive a Camaro and not a Civic.....

neilb

While I certainly don't want to see manufacturing leave North America, I don't see Japanese or any other coutries products being sold here a problem. Think of all the people working here in North America at factories, dealerships, repair facilities,and offices etc for imported companies. These companies do add to the North American economy.

As for the rear end, I was not aware of the smaller ring gear in the Toyota assemblies compared to the 9", and I do understand the complexity of swapping this rear (or any other rear that didn't come in our cars) in to a Camaro. What I have see though, is success with the 4X4 guys, and rock crawlers with this set up. Like i said before, this was just an idea I had while sitting in trade school while the teacher droned on about chrysler 9 1/4 diffs. I would like to take some measurements (didn't get around to it today) just for curiosity sake. I figured if those axles can handle a 4000lb truck rolling over huge obstacles, and rough terrain, it might hold up better at the track than the factory rear. This is only a "what if?" or "is it possible?" question.

Does anyone know of other weaknesses (other than the smaller ring gear) with these assemblies? It looks like the axle housing is pretty strong.

If the Toyota diff is out, anyone with a different idea? Sometimes its interesting to think out of the box, or be creative sometimes.

big gear head

There are people on this sight who have fabricated brackets and parts to install 8.8 Ford, 8.5 GM and other rear ends into their cars. The 8 3/4 Chrysler is a very good opion that very few people think of. It has a steel housing and drop out differential like the Ford, but it's lighter and doesn't take as much power to turn.

If you don't see a problem with all of the imported products being sold in this country then you need to open your eyes. This country has sold it's soul to imports and that is why China holds the lean to our national debt. Whenever you hear about the trillions of dollars that this country is in debt, just remember that China is the one that we owe that debt to. What do we do if they decide to call in the loan? Made in the USA by legal US workers for US owned companies it the way it should be, and will be if I have anything to do with it.

Sandslot

iTrader: (2)

Now here's someone that gets it! Funny thing....I opened this page and saw a Toyota Tundra advertisement. Apparently someone in Japan (through US contacts) feels we care

91 zeee

I dont want to mess up your diff thread; but this topic is interesting. think I will post the foreign v. domestic car topic in another forum. Should get some good debate going, huh?

By the way, I can't resist......Japanese cos. building cars here is the same as GM building cars in Mexico. Mexico gets jobs, but the US get a huge, technological company that creates profit, jobs, more advanced technologies and contributes more to the overall economy and citizens in the US than it does in Mexico....think about it....

I'll let ya'll know which forum I can find to get this debate going....he he he

stealthroc89

Hes he buying a toyota axel from an american junkyard, unless hes going to buy it from the dealer theres no profit to anyone other than the junkyard. I just hope you haters dont have any duralast parts on your cars... China, Taiwan

91 zeee

not a hater, just prefer to support the country that I live in if I have a choice.

neilb

I for sure want to support the North American economy, and totally want to support the local and small business, however, like it was mentioned above, The rear would likely come from a junkyard, someone else has already paid Toyota for the truck, now we can pay the local economy by buying the used parts! I personally have never handed Toyota money directly. I bought my truck used from a local contractor, and buy all my parts from Napa or Car Quest... both North American companies. My ONLY question was the viability of the rear end as a performance option.

Mention of the Chrysler 8 1/4" rear was made earlier, that does pick up my interest as well. That is a diff that I'm not overly familiar with. Has anyone done that swap into a thirdgen before?

big gear head

The 8 3/4 is a good strong rear end. It was used in the 426 Hemi cars with automatic transmissions. There are many options for this rear end. There are 3 different cases that you need to know about. The 471 case has the smallest pinion bearings and should be your last choice. The 472 case has larger bearings and still uses a solid pinion spacer. The 489 case has the largest bearings and uses a crush spacer. There are also coarse and fine spline pinion shafts, so you need to match them up to the yoke that you use. The housing is stamped steel like the 9 inch Ford, so welding mounts to it is easy. The axles have tapered bearings and a preload spanner on one side. You can replace these with sealed ball bearings so you don't have to set the bearing preload. They also have good strong 30 spline axles in them. The 8 3/4 was used in many of the Chrysler cars and trucks for many years, so there should be some still out there.

Sandslot

iTrader: (2)

Careful.....you'll put that diff together and have a RECALL on it......

neilb

lol, that is funny!

FSTFBDY

iTrader: (33)

I say go for it. Its your car your $. for all you import haters BE REAL here. Im all for american this, that etc.. Let me ask you this...... is 110% of everything in your life 100% USA MADE?? I'd put $$ on it EVERY ONE OF YOU ANSWER "NO" ! Your TV,? Your silverware / dishware / clothes? ALL your electronics ? Electronics in your car ? Etc..

As mentioned above No diff. then GM producing cars in Mexico or Canada. Yes GM gets the $ but they are outsourcing jobs. If your gonna wide the wagon and hate a Co. cuz its not made in the USA , You should live in a empty house and wide a bicycle to work.
http://www.worksman.com/

Sorry to get offtopic OP. but I hate when the might "I ONLY BUY USA PRODUCTS" people go on a rant. NOBODY has 110% ONLY USA iin their lives.

TheMonster

Just want to say, the new 6-speed manual transmission that comes in the 5th gen camaro is made in Japan.

Sandslot

iTrader: (2)

Right...nothing is 100% US...rationalization is a wonderful thing that helps us get up in the morning.. I bought a car stacker and had to pay more than a thousand MORE for a US version. The China copy was IDENTICAL...but wouldn't want to walk under it.

FSTFBDY

iTrader: (33)

I agree, As i said I buy better products when allowed. aka http://www.backyardbuddy.com/ vs china knock offs like you said. but to say "i only buy usa made products" is hogswash.. Id love if everything needed was made here, I'd pay extra to know people here were employed vs giving my $ to another Co., etc...

anyways back on topic.......................

big gear head

Did I say anywhere in this thread that I only buy stuff that's made in the USA? No I didn't, because it's not possible these days. If I could then I would, but I can't so I do the best that I can. I don't like Camaros being built in Canada and engines being built in Mexico, but I don't make the decisions on where this stuff is made. If I did then there would be nothing imported into this country if it could be made here. That's how it was many years ago and it should still be that way. Greedy corporate people have caused the situation that we are in and we helped them because we bought the stuff that they imported (yes I said WE). I've tried for many years to buy stuff that's made in the USA, but it seems like almost nothing is made here anymore. Many good people have given their lives for this country and we are slowly selling it to other countries. I'm not a hater, I love this country and I want to keep it.

91 zeee

I agree with big gear head. No...I don't have an American TV, because I can't reasonably go out and buy one anymore. I WISH I COULD. If we all take the attitude above, then soon we wont be able to buy an American car either, is that what we want?
Dont call me a 'hater' because I want to support this country. I didn't say I hate anything, just that I'd rather support the country that supports me (and that I live in) if I have the choice. Right now I do have a choice on cars (maybe not on TV's anymore) but I (we) wont much longer if we don't support our own companies.

back to the topic........ if you do decide to put the Toyota rear in, let us know how it holds up.

Sandslot

iTrader: (2)

I don't disagree with 91 zeee and big gear head.... The thing that's important here that most don't consider is it requires design, engineering & production to build a car. The JOBS at issue here are in design, engineering & production. Only domestic automakers are providing jobs in ALL three areas, while imports are really ONE of THREE JOB areas.

So when you see "Built in the USA" on a Kia commercial.....that should make you think....why don't they mention the other TWO jobs areas....the ones that generate significant cash (and spending)....and in many cases the ones that are in other countries and TRAINED in US universities.

So, if we continue on our current trend in loosing our domestic producers, we may loose the production....and eventually the universities. After all, if the economy stays where it is, who's to say the smart educators will stay here - what's the incentive for them!

Don't hate the imports.....just worry about our country when we let them run wild.