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As the title says, I could use some help with Identifying my 700R4 and also picking out a torque converter brand and stall. I know the vigilant is a great/best choice but before I spend 700 bucks on one, I'd like to hear from some of you that have other brands and how you like it.
Car is obviously a 3rd gen, 3.73 gears and below is my dyno results and cam card.
7YZM308 is stamped on the tran and then it looks like a R or B. Wish I could load pics. I'm pretty sure something is wrong with tgo's site as to why I cant upload pics. If anyone wants to try and see if it works for them that would be great.
The first three converters I've gone through with the Camaro were TCI. I started with a 12". Stall might have been 1000 RPM over stock. (Breakaway).
Then along came the 10" with a 12" lockup assembly. (Street Fighter)
Now, as yet untested is the 10" upgrade to the previous 10" (Super Street Fighter). The Street Fighter would footbrake to 2200 and flash stall in excess 3500 RPM. Closer to 4000 if my tach in the dyno video is any indication. I expect about another 500 RPM all around with the Super Street Fighter. I hope it compliments the new top end package and cam for this season..
All of that said, this new (to me) 10" was in the Monte Carlo. Very similar in weight, power, gearing and performance as my Camaro. That has since been swapped out to a spec'd Yank. There was a gain in all of the things you might imagine. Better 60'. Better ET.
With the TCI, shift RPMs were:
6500 rpm 1st gear shift to 3462 in 2nd. Add 10% converter slip for 3800 rpm.
6500 rpm 2nd gear shift to 3990 in 3rd. Add 10% converter slip for 4390 rpm.
6000 rpm 2nd gear shift to 3680 in 3rd. Add 10% converter slip for 4050 rpm.
With the Yank, data-logs show the RPM never drops below 5000 whatever the next gear that shifted into. It had a remarkable effect.
To do it over again, I'd forgo this TCI that I have (but the price was right) and go straight for a Yank. My understanding is any of the more hardcore converter company's converters would behave much the same way. Edge, Coan, Vigilante come to mind but my experience lies with the TCI and Yank.
Don't get me wrong, that 1st 10" I installed after the 12" was a night and day difference too. But I've seen that there's more to be had with something that's customized to the application.
As for trans I.D, I have the GM and ATSG manuals here. I'll see if I can't dig something up. I just went through a very involved 700 rebuild. What I found was that the best start is to find the newest 700 core that you can. Keep what you have as a usable spare. 93 was the last year of the traditional 700. Seems that anything 90 and up is a good starting point. Once you've gone through it, there's little left from the original anyway.
7 would be the year. YZM is the application code. 308 is a build date.
That matches my ATSG description.
That said, you may want to consider the upgrades that went into the 4L60 until it stopped production in '93. After that, the 4L60E and 65E took it's place and they continued to improve as well. Examples are the 5-pinion planetary gear sets that will retro-fit into the 700 from the 65E. I purchased both sets new from GM for $400 CDN.
Here's the retro-fit handbook if you're interested.
Thanks fellas. I talked with Precision today. 700 + shipping for their 10" non lock. Said it will be anywhere from 2600-2800 rpm stall. ($950 for a lock up)
I just dont know if its worth that to spend on a street car converter. I'm not questioning if it will be a great pick or not, just is it really suitable and reasonable for my application.
I also called bte and they dont offer a converter for a 700r4.
Tomorrow I'm going to call a few more places and get some quotes.
I'm not promoting TCI other than to say I've used them and they have performed well enough for me. Their strength is feature vs cost as I was able to get a 10" converter with lock-up for about $500 (USD). It's characteristics are listed above.
That said, I know there's a performance gain to be had with a converter that has been properly spec'd to the chassis it's in. We saw that with the Monte Carlo as I mentioned.
A word of caution. Putting your new converter in front of your old transmission might mean that that converter has to be disassembled for cleaning after your transmission has ejected it's internals while it's slowly (or spontaneously) coming apart.
I didn't hear back in the PM's so I'll post my 4L60 spec here. Maybe you'll find it useful.
I had to post it as a jpeg instead of an excel file so the links to PN's won't work. I can e-mail it to you directly if your interested.
There are duplicates items between some the Sonnax and TransGo parts.
I'm not promoting TCI other than to say I've used them and they have performed well enough for me. Their strength is feature vs cost as I was able to get a 10" converter with lock-up for about $500 (USD). It's characteristics are listed above.
That said, I know there's a performance gain to be had with a converter that has been properly spec'd to the chassis it's in. We saw that with the Monte Carlo as I mentioned.
A word of caution. Putting your new converter in front of your old transmission might mean that that converter has to be disassembled for cleaning after your transmission has ejected it's internals while it's slowly (or spontaneously) coming apart.
So I decided to go with PTC of Texas. I did a bunch or research and from what everyone says, they are a great place to work with. I sent my cam card, dyno sheet, and they are building me a custom converter. (9 1/2 2800rpm stall) I talked with him for a good bit and I get a really good vibe. Plus, they stand by their work but from what I've read, I need not worry about that.
My current tran only has 2000 miles on it max sense it was rebuilt last. I cant imagine it is dirty inside. I do plan to drop the pan so I can I.D my valve body tho so I will replace filter and oil. I'm still up in the air as to whether I'm going to tear into it and change some hard parts and clutches, or see how it goes as is. I will hardly take this to the strip. 98% street. I'm just not convinced that buying a rebuild or kit will drastically improve the strength. Obviously changing hard parts will, but almost every kit or rebuilt trans that I've looked at that is rated for 500+hp, is just clutches, corvette servo, .500 boost. Add 40.00 bucks for a hardened sunshell/beast, and seals and a few other things. I want hard facts of what stock hard parts are rated for. From what I have read, as long as there are no internal leaks inside the tran and pressure is maintained when needed or not needed, and is equipped with a good converter, a 700 will hold up fine to 450hp. The 480tq kinda has me worried..... but we dialed the timing back to 30* total so its not making peak power anyways... IDK, lots of conflicting info out there and I like facts.
Most likely I will be getting a kit anyways to just have in case.
Any experienced (Professional) Tran guys feel free to chime in.
As always, thanks for tuning in Skinny.
Edit- Ahh, you mean when the tran blows, not that its dirty inside... That the converter will need cleaning...
Check out Pro Built Automatics website. There's some good information there, some of which I used to build my own spec. https://www.700r4l60e.com/
Dana at Pro Built is our resident expert here at Thirdgen.
And yes, I meant when the trans lets go and fills your new converter with crap.
FWIW, my first modified 700 had the basic upgrades. Things that are considered entry level changes in trying to get the 700 to live. Stuff you've touched upon: .500" boost valve, (add the .300" reverse boost valve too), Corvette servo (or equivalent), TransGo 700-2&3 reprogramming kit (which addresses shift timing and firmness), a new separator plate (to work in conjunction with the TransGo kit). The OEM bands and clutch packs remained as they were and were still going strong tens of thousands of miles later. A good transmission cooler is also essential especially with a stall converter.
I'm no expert however there are some experiences I can draw upon. At least at these lower power levels. As I mentioned, at 400hp/400ft/lbs, my engine didn't exactly put the components to the test. Still, it did hold up surprisingly well for what it was.
Last edited by skinny z; 02-24-2017 at 04:39 PM.
Reason: grammar
02-18-2017, 04:02 PM
