scottmoyer

I took the '82 to a local shop on Friday to see if they could pinpoint my shifter/clutch/??? issues. They drove the car and came back with the following:
Bad throwout bearing, recommended resurfacing the flywheel and replacing the clutch. The cost, about $950.

My son and I have been thinking about replacing the LG4 and the 4 speed, but that is more than I have ever done to a car, being the stock **** that I am. Is it worth it to get this trans fixed, repair the shifter if I can (due to sloppy movement of the shifter), or is it better for me to get a new trans in place behind the LG4 for now? I was thinking of a T5, but after reading posts here, it sounds like I'd be better off with a T56.

Swapping to a new trans will require a new clutch and throwout bearing also. I'm assuming (no research done yet) that I'll need a new flywheel and flexplate. I know that a swap will cost more than $950, but is it worth it to fix the T10 if I want to replace it at some point anyway?

Thanks for any help.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

If it was me, I'd just put a new clutch in it myself, and if the shifter uses the usual bushings like older stock shifters (and Hurst and Mr G) did, I'd put new bushings & clips in it.

A lazy weekend afternoon's work... normal routine maintenance... nothing that requires "shop".

Clutch kits usually include the throwout. I'd suggest, at the age of everything, replace the flywheel if possible, rather than resurfacing. At that point it's all just a quick clutch job in the carport. (or garage or palace or driveway or whatever you've got)

scottmoyer

The car only has 29k miles on it. Do you think the flywheel should still be replaced? I haven't had the chance to remove the shifter yet to see what needs to be done. I keep hearing the words bushings, but I haven't researched where they are located and how to replace them. I've also never dropped a transmission from a car. Is it something that I should be able to do with instructions, when I am mechanically capable, or is it best to leave it to the pros?

I haven't been able to find anything online that shows where I can get the bushings. I might be searching with the incorrect terminology. "Super T10 shifter bushings". I keep getting links to the Hurst shifter only.

chazman

iTrader: (4)

In general terms, I think the more you alter a low mile car, the less satisfaction you'll get from it.

I'd just fix it, if it were my car.

I've had the fleeting temptation to take my 18K mile '87 and add 2.25" exhaust manifolds, an N10 exhaust and a 3.42 rear gear.....

I won't do it, though....

scottmoyer

I would normally agree, Charlie, but the LG4 in this car is very anemic at 145hp. The 4 speed manual revs quite high. My thought was that if it costs $950 to get this running right, but maybe two grand for a completely new 5 or 6 speed installed, is that the better way to go for enjoying the drive? I want to drive and enjoy these cars. My days of just "showing" them is behind me. What's the point of owning a car like this if I don't get it out on the road for others to visually enjoy? My goal was to replace the engine, trans, exhaust, wheels, brakes and suspension, while keeping the car looking mostly stock.

GeneralDisorder

iTrader: (1)

These cars were made to be modified. People modified them when new.

I say install a 6 speed - make the interior look as stock as you can. Add some performance to the engine now or later on. It can still look stock unless you climb under it.

Watch some of the restorations that Jay Leno has done. They put T56's in everything! Because driveability... and power handling. He wants to actually enjoy driving them not just look at them.

GD

naf

iTrader: (7)

That LG4 likely does not have a rear end gear that is compatible with the T56 pull out from a LT1.

Spend a few minutes perusing a youtube video or two on clutch swaps. Pretty simple really, hardest part is lining the input shaft back up when re-installing and a $99 HF tranny jack helps with that.

big gear head

I'd never put a T56 in anything. Most of the time 6th gear is completely useless in a older car. The TKO500 or 600 would probably suit you much better.

scottmoyer

The '82 Pace Car has a 3.23 rear gear ratio with the LG4.

My only reasoning for a T56 is due to the strength it offers in comparison to the T5. I would prefer a 5 speed over a 6 speed, but I also want reliability and strength.

big gear head

Then you need to look at the TKO500 and 600. They are much stronger than the T5, and easier to install than the T56.

antman89iroc

If you don't plan on adding a lot of power a T5 is a great transmission. I used one for years behind a ~300WHP 350 with no issues. Just get one from a v8 fbody and it will have the right input splines and torque arm mount. You'll need the fbody specific bell housing too. I think it's different than what you now have.
It drops right in body wise. I don't know if yours has a hydraulic clutch pedal but you'll need that too. The deal with most of the 6 speeds is they really don't have a "taller" overdrive than the T5. They just have a gear between 4th (1:1) and 5th (~.65:1) if you look at it that way.

burnout88

American powertrain sells a complete tKo 5-speed conversion kit for a thirdgen. Could drop in a new TKO. However the total conversion would probably cost you over 3k just for the parts and that's with you doing all the labor yourself.

If you just want to fix the trans you have doing a clutch job is not that hard and is in the skill range of a shade tree mechanic. I have done three clutchs and none of them where that hard. The gas tank is more of a pain to get out than the trans. Just get the harbor tool $99.00 trans jack and take your time with the job. You will be just fine. If you do the job yourself you will probably spend $150 in parts. Flywells are super cheap now easier just to put in a new one.

burnout88

Charlie, it's an 82 LG4. The only satisfaction you can get out of drivingthat motor and trans is to mod it in some why. And put that N10, 3.42 gear combo in that vert. It will really wake that car up.

scottmoyer

Back to the top...

I finally started the work on the '82. Today I dropped the transmission, clutch and flywheel. I never got a response on the flywheel replace versus resurface. On a 29k mile car, is resurfacing a valid option or should I just replace it since the clutch is also new? I wish I had a T5 to install, but the T10 is probably going back in. Now that I have it out of the car, I can reattach the shifter and see why it isn't resting in the proper spot and why there is no effort putting this thing into reverse. I'll take some pics of what I have now , then I'll clean it up and try to get this thing fully operational again.

scottmoyer

Here's a picture of the shifter assembly mounted back onto the trans. I'm not sure if you can see that the spring is pushing the shifter to rest under 3rd gear. Tomorrow, I'll clean up the trans and the shifter assembly so that it's easier to see things.

alan91z28

if it was me, i would just replace the flywheel with a good quality one, same with clutch and then you don't need to worry about it... if you are going to get it resurfaced, that isn't an issue as long as it is done right... however with this being done less and less you need to make sure you get it done by someone who understands what they are doing, not hard but needs to be done right or you will be taking it back apart.

personally, i would keep the LG4 / T10... you are right it isn't a lot of hp, however i find mine still fun to drive... to me it is just interesting to drive as it has a much different character than my other 3rd gens with this set-up and it is an interesting reminder of really what the 3rd gen era started with... mine is also relatively low mile ~35K and will a fairly low number of 4 speed pace cars i also like to keep it the way it is.

however like everything else it comes down to do what you want to do to enjoy it. when i picked up my '91 z-28 vert that i ordered new from the factory to make sure i got my TPI/5 spd and color option i wanted in August of 1990, i can remember my father questioning a year later why i was ripping into it to install a paxton supercharger... i wanted to go faster! that vert in my collection is still basically new at <8K miles and still has the paxton in it that i remember doing in my fathers garage and driveway

antman89iroc

Resurfacing the flywheel should be no problem. As long as you have a good machine shop available. Expect to pay $45-75 for a proper job. There are also new, stock replacement flywheels for $100-125 that are good quality. I ran one from Jeg's behind a TPI 350 with no problems. Just make sure you get one with the proper crank pattern and balance.

scottmoyer

I found a shop today that was recommended by a local engine builder and AC Delco supply shop to resurface the flywheel. So, I'll get that done this week. Here's the shifter cleaned up better. Does anybody see anything out of the ordinary? I don't know what to look for, but I would like to know why it rests under 3rd when in neutral, rather than centered. It's like it's missing a counter spring somewhere. (BTW, I removed the linkage clips, so the linkages are just pushed thru the shifter)

antman89iroc

Wow, first I gotta say it's been a while since I've seen an external shifter up close. I don't see anything that looks out of place or missing. The T5's and TKO's I've been using are all internal rail shifted trans. The shifter and linkage on the older stuff looks so industrial. What a trip down memory lane!
Anyway, the basic function is the same. If I remember correctly, my 70 Mustang shifter centered in the 3-4 gate. Since the 2-3 shift has to cross from one rail (or rod in this case) to the other the spring bias makes that "H" move easier. You pull it over to the 1-2 gate and push it into 1st. 2nd is right below 1st so that move is natural to keep it pulled to that side. Then the 2nd to 3rd move has the spring bias to help with the transfer. This is how the TKO is setup and makes sense for your 4 speed as well. You should also have to push over to get into the reverse gate.
Regardless, it should move through all the gears just fine. One issue this configuration has is the rod or linkage adjustment. The "center" of the 1-2 linkages has to be adjusted in the middle to make the transition over to 3-4, same with reverse. All the links have to be in "neutral" when the shifter is in the center of throw, side to side and front to back.

jmd

iTrader: (4)

big gear head

4 speed shifters are supposed to rest between 3rd and 4th. That is the way they are made. It helps with the 2-3 shift.

scottmoyer

Ok. I was thinking the shifter would center between the 4 forward gears? I thought there was a "push" needed to get into reverse and the 1-4 was as simple as push left and up, you're in 1st, left and down, you're in 2nd. There doesn't seem to be a "wall" separating 1st and reverse. My biggest issue is that moving the shifter into 1st, it gets reverse at least 30% of the time. Reverse is left and up on this shifter just in case some have seen the left and down Saginaw.

big gear head

Either install a Hurst shifter or go to 2nd and then straight up to 1st.

scottmoyer

Well, neither of your suggestions actually fix the issue. And the 2nd to 1st doesn't work. Reverse "feels" like it's only 1/8" from 1st, so it slides into reverse too easy. I'm sure this is an easy fix if someone could see it.

scottmoyer

I notice that the shifter handle allows to be pushed down and springs back up. It's been many years since I drove a manual 3rd gen, let alone a 4 speed. When going into reverse, is it spring loaded where you just push left then up, or am I supposed to push down on the shifter, push left and then up into reverse?

If this is supposed to require a push down first, what would be missing that would allow the shifter to be pushed left without pushing down? As I mentioned earlier, the shifter goes into reverse as easily as 1st, and the gap between gears is so close that trying to get 1st will 40% of the time go into reverse.

scottmoyer

So nobody knows how a shifter assembly works? I tore this entire shifter down and cleaned it up, but I found nothing that looks worn or missing. I still don't understand how pushing down on the shifter is supposed to allow the movement into reverse. The shifter handle has a tooth that engages the one/two or three/four gates. There is a thin metal plate between the one/two and reverse gates, but the notch is exactly the same as the one/two/three/four gates. When all notches are lined up (neutral), the shifter moves freely. It should not move freely into reverse though. I don't know how pushing down on the shifter allows access to reverse when all the notches are aligned.

jmd

iTrader: (4)

It is a one-year run, with installation differences from pre-third gen models. You're not going to find as many 4 speed guys on a forum where less than 10% are 82, less than half that are manual, fewer yet have their original trans.

Instead of pissing on Freddy's suggestion as irrelevant (He never is,) why not inquire of Hurst or whomever offers one to see if it has a built-in push-down reverse lock-out. It wouldn't be unheard of. Or go register on a forum where the people and cars are antiques and care about 4speeds. I belong to a few.
​​​

scottmoyer

I finally figured it out... I kept focusing on the shifter tooth and linkage notch to see what stopped the shifter from going into reverse. What I found is that on the side of the shifter assembly, under the large spring, is a pin. The pin is supposed to hit the side of the shifter housing which prevents hitting reverse. When you press down on the shifter handle, the pin goes into a hole on the side of the shifter housing. What I found is the hole is slightly worn and the pin doesn't have a flat face anymore, but is worn into an angle allowing it to slide into the worn hole.

What I need to do, is grind off the pin (it's welded to the shifter assembly), replace it with a new one and weld up the hole that the pin goes into and redrill it. This will be cheaper than replacing the shifter assembly!!

scottmoyer

I wasn't pissing on anyone's suggestion. His suggestion didn't answer the question I had regarding my shifter. I could easily buy an aftermarket shifter, but that's not what I want to do on a 29k mile Pace Car. I have seen some of the other manufacturers designs, but none were like mine, so they didn't help. I am on other forums and I have asked but nobody knows the answer.

There were about 35,000 4 speeds produced in 1982, and another 4000 produced in 1983. TGO is a technical forum, so I found it hard to believe that nobody knows anything about the shifter assembly that was factory produced on just shy of 40k vehicles. I also figured that someone on the transmission forum would be familiar with how the push down to reverse worked on other shifters and could provide some assistance

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

AFAIK Hurst doesn't supply that shifter anymore. Hasn't for decades.

The way their product is configured is, the shifter "body" is somewhat universal. (not completely so, but somewhat) You have to buy 2 products to get a complete setup: a "shifter" which is just the body part, and an "installation kit". The "kit" contains mounting brackets & hdwe etc, rods & levers, & handle. And of course that s***ty **** they always supply with everything; I've made more than 1 "adapter" bushing to fit a factory **** onto a Hurst shifter.

Last I remember, maybe around the late 90s or early 00s, they discontinued the install kit for the 82 T-10 cars.

The factory shifters always have SUCKED. They were made of metal that was entirely too weenie for the amount of force that occurs on everything, and the parts are all so small that even just a tiny bit of wear makes them fail utterly. For non-replaceable parts to wear out in 27k miles is a great demonstration of how crappy that thing is. If you set a factory shifter next to a Hurst they look about like setting a "homeowner" lawn mower next to what a golf course would use... there's a certain family resemblance, but one looks like a TOOL and the other looks like a TOY.

I wouldn't give a steaming bucket of fresh monkey plop about keeping that part of a car "original" in a driver. While the pace car is one of those that needs to be that way, if I had one, and I wanted to actually ever DRIVE it as opposed to "show" it, I'd be ALL OVER the process of finding a Hurst shifter for it, be it at swap meets, ebay, or whatever; and I'd take the factory one off the car and put it in a box in a safe place rather than use it, so that if it ever did come down to a question of "value" or "originality" someday, the crappy factory crap could be put back on and it would still look "original" and would actually still "work" somewhat, and wouldn't have been altogether used up and failed like has already happened to yours.

I drove 4-speed cars EXCLUSIVELY for many years... until I bought the 83 I have with the 5-speed. Traded in a T-10 79 Z28 on the 83. I always kept fresh new bushings & clips in all my Hurst shifters over the years. I'd change em out every 10k miles or so. Even those bushings, and especially the clips, even though they're about 3 times as beefy as factory ones, would wear enough that the shifter would get loos. Factory ones wear more, and the wear has a MUCH greater effect on them. Doesn't look to me, looking at yours, like Hurst ones will fit it. If you can find any that will, whether from GM or elsewhere (McMaster-Carr maybe?), they would make a YYYYUUUUUUUUJJJJJJJJJJE difference to the overall operation and feel of the whole thing. Consider refreshing those at the same time you make whatever other "repairs".