antman89iroc

As stated I am thinking about swapping my TKO 600 out for an auto. Nothing wrong with the stick shift, in fact I really like it. Mostly daily driven but occasional trips to the drag strip would be much more consistent with an automatic.
Of course the 700r4 is what originally came in my IROC but there are a lot of other transmissions available now. I am likely to keep an overdrive trans otherwise the TH400 is a really strong choice. Not really considering a trans brake or manual valve body but the issue of converter lock up is one of the decisions to consider.
The motor currently makes 420whp and nitrous adds another 150-200whp so I want a heavy duty trans. By the time a 700 is beefed up the cost is somewhere near a 4L80. The only thing is needing a controller for the electronic transmission and a few other issues like a speedometer drive. But is the 4L80 really better than a properly built 700?
Another "if cost is no object" option is the TCI6x. I really like the idea of the 6 speed but the $$$ goes way up.
Any experience with 700's 400's or any of the electronic transmissions like 4L80 is appreciated. Do high-er stall (say 3000) converters with lock up cause any problems?

Jorlain

iTrader: (4)

A 700R4 is essentially the same as a 4L60E. Typically when upgrading a 700R4, you use 4L60 parts as they have most of the problem areas ironed out. Obviously, a 4L80E is stronger in an apples to apples comparison. That being said, I would think that fitment would be a nightmare.

Here's some ideas on cost and what kind of power they'll hold. Seems expensive at first, but it includes a torque converter. Rebadged Yank converters, if I remember right.
https://gearstar.com/transmissions/gm/

Also, there's Dana at Probuilt. Great guy to work with.

https://probuiltautomatics.com/shop?..._by_created_at
https://probuiltautomatics.com/shop?..._by_created_at

skinny z

You can't go wrong with a well spec'd TH700.
We've used several versions. In my car, is a TV cable operated traditional 700R4 with a level IV upgrade. I'm using a TCI 10" converter which flash stalls near 4000, foot brakes to 2200-2500 and has full lockup function. Works great.
The Chevelle has the electronic version, the 4L60E. It's also built to a level IV spec. The owner of the that car loves the programmability and prefers to let the car shift itself at the track. That transmission has a 9.5" Yank with full lockup. It's behind a 650 HP (dynoed) LSX454 and is a bonafied 10 second street car/cruiser.

antman89iroc

Good input. The gear star site seems reasonable.
Skinny, what vendor/builder are you referring to "level iv" trans? I see you mentioned TCI converter/
I would prefer to let the trans shift out and the old 350/400's could be programmed via the modulator or governor. Couldn't change the shift point per gear if I remember but it worked ok. I like the idea of the electronic control but that does add some cost for the controller.
I was wondering about high stall and lock up on a 700. The EBL I am running (ecm) has plenty of lock up parameters but I didn't know if they'd hold up for daily driving. Are you still running a trans mount torque arm?

skinny z

Gearstar lists their Level 4 transmission as:

Up to 600 ft-lbs Torque

Heavy Duty Reinforced Transmission Case
Master Overhaul Kit with Raybestos Generation II Racing Frictions
and Hardened Kolene Steels
Wide Carbon Fiber 2-4 Band
Heavy Duty Band Anchor
2 Transgo Recalibration Shift Kit with Shift Command
New Valve Body Separator Plate
Original Equipment Style Filter
4th Gear Super Hold Servo
New Torrington Bearings
Bushing Kit
Thrust Washer Kit
New 29-Element Dual Cage Sprag
New Low-Reverse Spring & Roller
High Capacity 10-Vane Pump Assembly with
New Rotor and Slide
Hardened Stator Shaft
New Vanes and Hardened Rings
0.500 Boost Valve
Updated Pressure Regulator Valve
Reinforced Input Drum
Extra Capacity 3-4 Clutch Drum Assembly with High-Rev Spring Kit
Heavy Duty Hardened Rollerized Sun Shell
Five-Pinion Heavy Duty Steel Planetary Gear Sets
Fully Rollerized Planetary Gear Set

My spec sheet lists my level IV as per the attached spread sheet. You'll see that I've matched all of the components (save for the "reinforced case"). I've also added a component or two to the mix. I substituted a 13 vane billet pump rotor.
I have a transmission builder as part of my circle of car guys.
Other than fine tuning some of the internals (which I haven't done) shift points per gear are set, based on the installed parts. In my case, WOT shifts are below my redline which is great for automatic shifting. Part throttle shifts are more or less as the OEMs figured. Manual WOT shifts are bang, bang, bang. Crisp, firm and no overlap or drag between selections.
I spec'd my own parts list and had my builder do his thing.
I'm presently using the tail shaft mounted torque arm but I have a new crossmember ready to go that will divorce the arm from the trans. To me, that's the way to go.
As for the lockup function, mine is via the old school method. I've brake, vacuum and 4th gear apply switches to activate/deactivate the TCC. I've also incorporated a toggle to defeat all of the functions. This allows the shift in OD without commanding the TCC on. then I can apply the lockup if/when the conditions warrant. Otherwise the shift from 3rd is into a locked up OD and RPMs are dragged down. I prefer to be into the converter stall on all shifts.

antman89iroc

Thanks again, good info.
Has anyone changed over from stick shift to auto for the strip? I am wondering about the performance impact.
Overall, the stick shift has pretty good results. Best to date is 7.38/100 in the 1/8th. 60' times are in the 1.7's with a 3.50 rear gear in a 3700# car to boot.
The only real issue is the launch. Generally launch at 3000 and drive it out. RPMs usually drop to ~1500 after clutch engagement and shift at 6000. Launch at higher RPMs haven't really helped. Feathering the clutch limits RPM drop to ~2500 but is hard on the clutch. I can smell the organic linings after a feathered launch. Having the clutch rebuilt with ceramic linings (RXT) so that may help but it's still a stick shift/clutch launch.
The motor's torque curve and relatively low shift point makes good power down low so I am considering a modest converter, especially since this is a regularly driven car. I will give up a little on the 60' to have a decent daily commute. I'm thinking a converter that stalls in the 2500 range with a flash a little higher. Considering it is pulling down to 1500 on launch it seems 2500-3000 would be a considerable improvement not to mention the torque multiplication (which I have never fully understood but that's a whole other thread) and instant shifts. Looking at data logs the car is unpowered for almost a full second during a <8 second run. That is a lot of time coasting during a run and could be a big improvement by going automatic. Yeah I could shift a little faster but ~0.3-4 secs per shift isn't really that bad, it's just a lot longer than an instant shift.

86LG4Bird

iTrader: (1)

Hey ant, I just noticed you're in Huntsville. I get there a few times a year to visit my daughter. She drives the car in my sig.

Reading your TC thoughts/preferences, I'd recommend a Yank SS3200. With the torque you have, it should 60' in the low/mid 1.6's. Their SS-series TC's drive very tight. Ordinarily, I'd say go with a Street Edge 2800 or 3000 (they drive a little looser than the Yanks), but the Yanks are more durable behind a torque monster, especially the lockup clutch.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Cost wise you might be better off in long run with a rebuilt 80e. A 700r4 or 60/65e might do well once properly built but i think it would cost more and still not be near as strong as a fresh 80e. But both can do it for a od trans

Else th400 is hard to beat and with a tall gear it wont be to terrible for driving

My buddy did the manual auto swap twice lol

First was th350 to t56. 406 sbc that ran 10.8 at 125 best. T56 went 11.00 at 127 but to be fair he was stock 10 bolt so didnt want to push it too hard on launch. 60 ft is always an advantage for auto

Then he was spraying. Pretty big shot after a rebuild of the 406. It made 521 whp all motor and 775 whp on a 250 hit i think it was. Was going 9.37 best i think with t56. Alot of 9.40’s
Swapped to th400. Spraying 350 now it made 758 whp! See how much is lost thru a th400 vs a t56. It went 9.0’s sprayin near 350 shot but i think it was a tenth or so better on same tune up due to 60 ft with auto. Never ran much with that setup, went turbo lsx.

antman89iroc

Yeah Bird, send me a PM if in town. We have a great little 1/8th mile track just out of town. Last time I was there the pro mods were sub 4's.
Jeremy, I agree about the 700 vs 80e. Even though I haven't "built" either one the 350/400 analogy seems to fit. If I were not looking for OD the 400 would be an easy choice.
Manual vs auto power drain is a real issue. For me esp since I am power limited. What used to be some serious power/times is now just meh. When my car finally got fast everyone else went 4x faster. One of the big factors even in my case is upgrades vs ls powertrain. Kinda dumb to keep building sbc for a driver.

86LG4Bird

iTrader: (1)

Huntsville Dragway? I was there for Radial vs the World last year and saw some some 3.9x radial passes!
Also have been to Baileyton.

antman89iroc

Yep, that's the one. About 3 miles from my house. It's almost cruel because I can hear them run from my garage.

Z28FAST1

What tires are you running on with that manual?

3k rpm launching is pretty much bogging. You need a drivetrain that can take 5k launches.

what's your 60 ft look like?

antman89iroc

Fair enough, bogging accurately describes it. Currently running Hoosier quick time 9" DOT tires on stock 16" wheels. Trans is TKO 600 with a Moser 9" & 3.50 gear. A "good" launch is 1.7x and usually 1.8x. Higher RPM launches doesn't really help a lot and puts a lot of shock into it. For the effect it doesn't seem worth it. If I had lower gear or got any spin it would certainly help. These tires at my well prepped local track hooks great and so I have been living with it pretty much. One of the reasons I am considering the switch back to auto is being able to leave harder without ripping the car apart. The driveline can handle it but it's real hard on the stock body. It's still a regularly driven vehicle rather than a track only car so there's the compromise.

Jorlain

iTrader: (4)

If you're dead hooking, it would probably be cheaper\easier to change rear gears to see if that helps, especially with a 9".

Granny

Have you considered keeping the TKO and adding a ClutchTamer? It can slip your RST in a way that can't duplicated with your foot, basically allows you to consistently dial back the RST's aggressive initial hit while keeping clutch slip time to a minimum. It would take a little minor fabrication to install as there is no Camaro specific version, but the effort would be well worth it. Likely be quicker and definitely more fun than an automatic, you would also be able to run radials if you wanted to.


Grant

Z28FAST1

If you like driving the manual and its mostly a street car i would try a better tire and gears before swapping trans.

Stick shift guys need stiff sidewall slicks. I went from 1.7s to 1.5s(now 1.4s) by going from mt et street on a 16 inch wheel to mt et drag slick ( MT 3053S) on a 15 inch wheel. You'll need the gear to spin the tire launching at 5K.

When and how are you activating the nitrous?

Granny

With that RST, there's no need to hit the tires hard enough to make them spin. Hitting them that hard on a well prepped could also kill the TKO.

Dead hook 5k launches are easy when you know how, here's an example of a dead hook 7100 launch...



That's what a ClutchTamer can do for you.

Z28FAST1

My brother's n/a LS Iroc running 7.0-7.1s in the 1/8th with 1.4 60 fts

antman89iroc

Ok, this wasn't the direction I saw this thread going but it does make a lot of sense.
Clutch tamer seems interesting but I haven't checked it out.
The nitrous is coming on at ~2800 set for 2500 but there is a bit of delay. I have re-configured the nozzles and have a progressive controller in the works but all of that is not directly related to the launch. At least not now.
It is a fact that changing gears would be a heck of a lot cheaper/easier than the trans. I'd like to give it a try anyway.
The way the blue car in the video launches is impressive. Exactly what I was hoping my car would do. When I tried higher rpm launches it seemed like a hell of a hit so I didn't try it a lot. But it wasn't spinning like the one in the video.
The blue car, do you know approx. the gear ratio, suspension and does it have a cage etc? With controlled wheel spin the TKO would probably be alright. The clutch will hold up better without slipping too.
Currently hitting the lights at ~5700 in third gear. To go much lower it would bring me into 4th. So, if I did the math right it would require a 4.30 gear to cross at ~5700 in 4th. That's a pretty big step from 3.50 to 4.30. Probably feel a little difference on the street and make 1st gear useless except for the strip.

Z28FAST1

Blue Iroc:

6 speed trans, 3.73 gears, monster stage 3 clutch, adjustable torq arm, panhard and LCA's, mt et streets on 17 inch wheels = average 1.7 60 fts

went to 26 inch mt drag slick on 15 inch wheel higher rpm launches = average 1.6 60 fts

Added subframes 28 inch slick on 15 inch billets wheels = average 1.5 60 fts

Added viking shocks and tuning the rebound = 1.4 60 fts while lifting the wheels





My set up: same except no cage, no subframes, tokico shocks, 15 inch slicks and has also gone 1.4s although with more wheel spin and boost.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Man that thing gotta be twisting lol get some subframes

antman89iroc

Ya think? Hell I'm worried about mine without a cage. Welded in SFC and plating and beefing up in rear floor area where LCA's attach. Still suffered some "crinkling" in the rear pan.

With 3.73's what gear/rpm are you crossing at. 3.50 v 3.73 not a lot of difference. Better? Probably, but seems I'd need to go deeper. Plus, my redline is ~6000 at least that's where I shift. Can hold it longer if needed but I probably won't pull to 7500. At least not too many times.

Granny

Torque arm car with 28" slicks, you have to hit the chassis/tires pretty hard to get the tires spinning. That's what's going to kill the TKO, that's also what buckles floor pans.

ClutchTamer allows you to soften the hit without giving up any 60'. That blue car has potential for 6.80's and low 1.4 60's, without any other changes.

Here's a comparison of two nearly identical back-to-back runs with zero wheelspin during launch. The blue pass has less clutch delay and bogs to 4622 rpm at .728 sec into the run. The only difference with the yellow pass is an additional 1/2 turn of delay added to the ClutchTamer adjustment. The added slip time raised the bog rpm to 5202 which increased hp output, and it reached the top of 1st gear 0.089 sec quicker. The added slip time also slightly reduced the wheelspeed spikes after the shifts, which improved net power overall to the point where the yellow pass reached the same driveshaft rpm 0.502 seconds quicker at the top of high gear...



Notice that the car gains rpm at exactly the same rates in each gear on both passes. The improvements come on the parts of the graph where the engine is losing rpm, which are basically controlled by the clutch.

Here's a graph with just the engine/driveshaft ratio displayed, so you can better see the differences in clutch slip time...




It didn't take much of an increase in slip time to make a huge difference in ET.


Grant

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Thats pretty neat.

My stickshift friends have good luck leaving with quick slips at near peak hp rpm. But drivetrain doesnt like that so better have good stuff or maybe go alittle softer lol

Z28FAST1

6000 rpm is not going to cut it with a stick shift. We spin bolt-on ls1's higher. 6600 rpm + at the 1/8th mile when I was n/a.

I looked into the clutch tammer, slipper clutches and faceplated trans but I'm ok with 1.4s for a car that's 98% a street car on a budget.

I really believe the tire spin is what has saved me from breaking/twisting parts when doing clutch dumps @ 6k rpm.

Any 60 ft time slips on a clutch tammer for a t5/t56 f-body. Also what clutch and tire set up?

Granny

My personal car was 1.30 60's with a torque arm (not an F-body or 6spd), drag radials, 2800lb Ram PP and single 10.5" cerametallic disc similar to the Monster level 3. 8.5 10 bolt with no girdle or braces, 3.73/TruTrac, and aftermarket 28 spline axles. Ran 5.73 in the 1/8th. It's just a street car that isn't trailered, currently runs no prep stuff. Still run 275 M/T radials, but stepped up to a full face iron disc with the same PP so I could add 2nd gear launches as a tuning option for really poor surfaces. Hasn't seen a set of clocks in a while, but pretty sure it could post 1.2 60's in it's current form.

When you go to the track with a torque arm car and radials, it takes a violent hit to get tire spin. My car would not survive in it's current form if it had to launch with tire spin.

Grant

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Raidals and sticks arent a good idea anyway. These new radial compounds will test the driveline strength lol. They are designed to dead hook. You generally want a stiff wall slick with a manual and want some slip to get goin

Z28FAST1

That's pretty awesome!!

what car, weight, trans and power?

If the clutch tammer could keep my drivetrain alive i could step up to a 28 inch slick. Ideally launch on the 2 step with a little boost could get me into the 9s.

antman89iroc

This is all very interesting.
Looking at my sig, what gear would you try? Again, I will give up some on the 60' since it really is a daily driver (or fair weather car) and I regularly commute to work in it. I don't want to beat the snot out of it or make it a lot less street friendly. There is a difference between a race car set up for street race action and a daily driver taken to the track on weekends. I have only "test and tuned" it up til now but would enter bracket or other races if it were more consistent. Probably better off with an auto but trying different gear, tire compound/type and launch techniques is easier/cheaper and I think I'd learn a lot.

antman89iroc

Ok Granny, you have my attention.
http://clutchtamer.com/
Makes a lot of sense and seems simple.
Still, I think the rear gear could use some attention. The 3.50 I'm running does put a lot of stress on the clutch & trans.

Granny

Radials do need to dead hook, as they will tolerate very little wheelspeed. Here's why it's hard to make radials work with a manual trans...

Lets imagine launching with no clutch slip at all, engine rpm with a dead hook on the starting line would equal "0". For simplicity, lets say a car has a constant acceleration rate in 1st gear and the potential to reach it's 1/2 shift point of 7000 rpm at about 2 seconds into the run. If starting line rpm equals "0", and rpm 2.0 seconds in equals 7000 and acceleration rate is constant, at 0.5 seconds engine rpm would be 1750, at 1 second in engine rpm would equal 3500, and at 1.5 seconds 5250 with the tires dead hooked and no clutch slip at all. Obviously dead hooking alone is not the answer, as our engines don't make any power at zero rpm. We NEED some controlled clutch slipping to keep those radials dead hooked without dragging the engine down too far, as there's just no way that suspension adjustments alone can absorb enough engine rpm over a long enough time frame to make the radials work.

Here's how controlled clutch slip can help-
To a point the longer a clutch slips, the more time the car/engine has to gain speed/rpm before that clutch locks up, which in turn means engine rpm does not get dragged down as far. Lets apply the above example to a magical engine that has a completely flat torque curve of 600ftlbs from 1500 to 5500 rpm. If that engine's clutch only slips for 0.5 second, rpm gets dragged down to 1750 after launch and that engine is only making 199.92hp at the low point of the bog. If the clutch were to slip for a full second, rpm only dips to 3500rpm which effectively doubles it's power production to 399.84hp thru the low point of the bog. In the real world the difference would be even more dramatic, as it's pretty unlikely the engine would be making 600ftlbs at 1750.

ClutchTamer makes it possible to choose a clutch with more torque capacity than you need, one that would otherwise grab too aggressively for a radial, then "dial in" longer clutch slip as needed to raise the bog rpm without reducing that clutch's overall holding ability. There may be other ways to make a radial work with a manual trans, but my way works pretty good.

Grant

Granny

More gear is a good idea, especially if the clutch has marginal capacity. More gear means the clutch does not have to slip as long. I would probably go 3.73 or 4.10.

Grant

Granny

Here's a video of a turbo powered ClutchTamer user with a T56 from back in early 2016, about the same time that the 1500whp SpeedFactory Honda started using one too. We've learned a lot since then...

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

My traction is so poor off the line with manual trans and drag radial (275/40-17) that it's almost annoying to hear you guys talk about having so much traction that the engine bogs if you dump the clutch.

The only time my engine bogs is in slow traffic when I'm not paying close attention to the throttle and the clutch grabs before I'm ready.

antman89iroc

Lol, funny trip. So is it great traction or low power?

Now on the street, with street tires it's a different deal. But a well prepped track with Hoosier Quick time tires I get great traction. That's with a 3.50 gear too.

The whole clutch tamer is a great looking system. Problem for me is it looks like it would take more room than I am willing to give up. There's a lot in the way, fuse box, dash and it would have to get up pretty high to get in the 3" stroke range for my pedal lever. There is a lot of flex in the dash and firewall too so I am a bit skeptical it could work reliably. I wish it could be mounted on the fork arm directly on the bell housing. There isn't much distance between the beginning of the friction point and full lock. But the basic idea is solid. Controlled release the way you could only do once in a million attempts.

Granny

The '87-'89 Mustang in-dash unit attaches thru an all plastic dash, but adding a single small brace back to a steering column bolt stiffens everything up to make it's plastic dash a suitable attachment point. There's also a 4" stroke cylinder that's used with the SN95 applications.

Z28FAST1

I'm guessing its a 2200 lb lightweight datsun? Is the transmission faceplated?

A 1000+ lb diet would put my porker into 1.3 60 fts but then would run into oil starvation. Do you have an oil pump?


Something i would like to explore in the future except I don't trust the hydraulics as is (tick master cylinder) that I have to bleed constantly to avoid high rpm lock out. The struggle!!

skinny z

I like this stick shift stuff and have considered making the move myself. That said, the work involved, as demonstrated by the preceding posts, and getting around to the OPs original question, puts a lot of stock into a well spec'd torque converter.

antman89iroc

The discussion and suggestions posted here bring up a lot of interesting aspects of "transmitting" power from the engine to the wheels. Lots of schools of thought here. One of the reasons TGO is still a great resource. Anyway looking into the pros and cons of one method vs the other. I can see why automatics have been the go-to method. Being able to control and consistently repeat the transition from rest to motion is where it is hard to beat. On the other hand it takes more power to operate an automatic and is less efficient in doing so. I know rules have a lot to do with how different classes are configured but Pro Stock, where power is limited and most of the design is dictated still use "manual" transmission of a sort. Top fuel is running clutches so if it really is better to use a torque converter they would. But those are very specific application. They don't have the same objectives a street car that goes to the track on occasion.

I would like to optimize my current combination. Changing gears isn't a major obstacle. My RST clutch is currently being rebuilt to RXT specifications so an addition of a device like the Clutch Tamer should be a good match. If I could get that combination dialed in and remain consistent on gear changes that would probably net a great result. Providing it is reliable and still street friendly I'd say it is worth trying.

On the other hand the auto option would be very predictable. As Skinny stated the torque converter spec is a major part of the combo. If a lock up converter can actually survive it may give the performance I am looking for and still be streetable. Looking at the options vs cost a well built 700 with the right TQ should be a good choice. I am still interested in the 4L60/80 option, mostly the 80 as it would be a strength upgrade from the 700 platform and give the electronic control benefits. The only issue is the added cost of the electronics. If I do ever change ECM or go LS, an electronic trans would be a good move to have made. I suspect the rear gear would likely need changed with an auto to optimize the combination anyway.

What is a good option to start with on the TQ? Last time I weighed it was 3600# and I have added the Moser 9" and dyno mat since then. I expect it to be in the 3700# range now. If we use the dyno run and keep in mind the car will be street driven regularly, what stall & gear would you suggest as a starting point?





The lower run was the base line years ago. Bolt ons, headers TPI. The middle run is NA and the upper run was N2O. I believe it was a 125 jet setting at the time and I am spraying more now but don't have a run showing it. I attribute the 4500RPM spike & dip to driveline and dyno slack take up and unloading. I mentally smooth that spike out when looking at the curve.

Granny

The downside to a converter is that they can't be optimized for both NA and spray at the same time. But you can optimize clutch engagement for either from the driver's seat.

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

False torque spikes usually occur at the beginning of the power hit. The dip in your curve could be tuning issues or maybe the tires spun. I had a terrible problem with tire spin on dyno when I had Nitto nt05r tires. Never got a representative dyno sheet with those tires.

One thing to be careful of is a clutch with too much holding torque. I think this is one of my problems. My Ram TrackR clutch can hold way more torque than my engine outputs. What happens is it just doesn't slip and all the inertia of my engine goes to the tires. You don't want that to happen at the drag strip.

skinny z

The biggest difference we've (and I use "we've" to describe the results from my racing crowd) between an off the shelf high stall converter, such as my TCI 10", to a spec'd converter for the application, such as a 9.5" Yank, is how the operating RPM is affected.
My TCI equipped Camaro will follow a predictable RPM change between gears that matches the gear ratios. In the 700, the shift curve is a follows:

6500 rpm 1st gear shift to 3462 in 2nd. Add 10% convertor slip for 3800 rpm.
6500 rpm 2nd gear shift to 3990 in 3rd. Add 10% convertor slip for 4390 rpm.
6000 rpm 2nd gear shift to 3680 in 3rd. Add 10% convertor slip for 4050 rpm.

With the Yank, RPMs never drop below 5000 regardless of the gear ratio differential. That alone was 4/10ths (more or less) in a comparably heavy (3700 lbs) sedan. We're not talking the kind of ET or trap speeds that the posters here are capable of as this is 12.7 improved to 12.3 and about 2/10ths in the 60' change but I think the principle can be applied across the board. Add the lockup and cruising on the highway is easy. 70 MPH is less than 2400 RPM.
Our go to here is typically ratio-ed 700 (3.06/1.62/1.00/0.70) combined with a 3.73 gear and 26" tire. The converter eliminates the wide spread 1-2 disparity of the 700/4L60/4L60E.
One issue here is the 3.73 rear gear combined with a 3.06 first gear. That's like a TH400 or TH350 with a 4.60. It makes for starting line challenges in a street spec suspension.

skinny z

Agreed.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

They make too much power to run a converter. They run 1 to 1 ratio as the clutches melt and weld themselves together during the run lol

For small nitrous shots a converter can be fine for both na and nitrous. Its the big shots that really kill na performance in the converter department

Just target slightly lower rpm stall. My old 150 shot opened converter maybe 200 more rpm on the hit. Hard to say never really paid much attention to it but just going by logs, it did get a few hundred rpm looser

So for you 4000 stall would be great for track na. Street i would back off few hundred. Maybe 3500. Spray would get that back up near 3800-4000 maybe depending on shot.

antman89iroc

Yeah I wasn't implying TF should or shouldn't (or could or couldn't) but rather there are appropriate ways to transfer power depending on goals. Auto's are the obvious choice for a lot of reasons but a well managed stick does still have some pro's as well.
I agree about the stall starting point you mentioned. I am currently launching NA and bringing the nitrous in later. Now if I were to leave at 3500-3800 that may change. For the street it would be good if a lock up converter would survive.

skinny z

The only time the TCC would be engaged is 4th gear/OD cruise so it's power handling capabilities don't necessarily have to match output power. And a well functioning auto will kick out of OD/lockup when more throttle is applied while cruising (cruising as in a highway sense).
I suppose an argument could be made for the land speed or flying mile crowd where OD and lockup would be desirable for a top end dash although that would be a unique (I would think) circumstance.