TomP

For those that don't remember the problem, my car has a fit in the mornings. I'll start it, it'll rev up, rev down, and stall. This process will repeat continuously unless I press the gas down- at which point, instead of stalling, the motor stumbles for a while, then revs up even higher, then rev's down, tries to stall, I press the gas, it stumbles, rev's up, rev's down, etc...

Well, I decided to check the fuel pressure- and had a bit of a heart attack. With the key turned to on, I got 45 PSI- then when the pump stopped, the pressure held for a split second, and dropped right to zero! I did this a few times, then I crimped the return line with a towel and channel locks, and tried the key again- same thing! So I ran and got my manual.

It told me to crimp the feed line as soon as pressure built up. If pressure held, then it was a bad pump. Slowly I did the test... and the same thing happened. The pressure bled off, down to zero. The rest of the test, which I didn't have time to finish, suggests that I have a leaking injector.

So I finally went out and put some fuel injector cleaner in. I haven't put any cleaner in the gas since Rich Jensen cleaned my injectors 2 (or more?) years ago! Talk about being stupid! I used to put injector cleaner in my car every couple of months.

Also, the car has been a bit hard to start lately. I thought it was a starter problem- the car used to start with a 1/2 second twist of the key. Now it's more like a 5 second twist! With the gauge on, I tried starting the car. The pressure goes up to 45, then when the relay kicks off, the pressure drops to zero instead of holds. Then, I crank the motor. The pump kicks in again. When pressure gets high enough, the motor starts.

The book said to also check the cold start injector for leaking... and then I realized why the mornings are a hard start. That cold start injector must kick in to give the car more gas, for an easier start. Too bad the motor's already getting "more gas", from a leaking injector. The stalling must be a result of the engine flooding. My oil doesn't smell of gas, but I wonder if the MSD box & coil are creating a powerful enough spark to keep the leaking injector's spark plug firing. None of my plugs were wet, either.

When I go to the junkyard today, I might ask how much a set of injectors are. If they're cheap enough, I'll send that pair out to Rich Jensen again, have them disassembled/cleaned/flowtested, and put them in. Only, this time, I'll remember to use injector cleaner every now and then! This way, I'll at least be able to drive my car in the meantime. I'd send Rich my old 190,000 mile injectors, but that doesn't seem smart! ]

TomP

Oh, I forgot the other things: I checked the TPS, it was 1/2 volt out of spec, so I put it to spec, no change. I pulled my IAC, it wasn't very dirty, but I cleaned the IAC pintle and passageway anyway- no change. I cleaned out the TB/plenum with the spray cleaner- no change. I checked my distributor cap/rotor for excessive carbon tracking- not too much, but I am missing a chunk out of the top side of my rotor! WTF? Can't I have a cap/rotor kit last?

WaynesRS

Man when I swapped my new injectors in , my car ran SO much better . I had more pick-up , it stopped stalling as much . it idled smoother . I just went ahead and bought new ones b/c I suspected mine where leaking . When they did my motor swap , they found a bad one , so I just assumed others were bad . When I pulled them out , I had 4 of them that were cracked at the bottem , I bet they were leaking from there .

WaynesRS

what kinda spray did you use on your tb tom ?

WaynesRS

Tom , I wonder if that hot spark from the MSD eats up your caps and rotors so fast ?

MDv6man

Ditto on noticing a huge improvement after the injectors were repaired. I had 4 bad ones. The shop wanted $100 part and labor to install each injector. Being the che-- er -- resorceful person I am, I took the rail off my 86 camaro (it had the bad motor) and took it to them. When it was done, I couldn't (and still can't) believe how well it runs (ex. Elkton to Ocean city -- round trip -- 1/2 a tank used)

redraif

I think I have the same prob as you Tom. We did all this work on the car and it still starts like crap. It stumbles and backfires. Its worse the longer it sits. We have not checked the fuel pressure as extensively as you, but I do remember we check it once after it had sat all night and the pressure was 0.

Now I do have a fuel smell to my oil. We changed out the fuel pressure reg. and it made no difference. The fuel pump is new and the realay is good. So Ihad the injectors cleaned with and on car cleaner. It ran better, but stilll started crappy.

I had the same plan as you. Go grab some from a yard car and send them off. I was amazed how cheap it was to do this verses new injectors. I can get them at the yard for next to nothing, we go there so much. I may grab 2 sets and the cold start inj too. Then I will have some spares already there in case some of the ones I send are bad. I can get a good set and do the swap dance.

I'm supposed to have a GM warenty on them, but I'm afraid to let them have the car and mess something up (detailing) or find that there is some other prob and charge me out the yang. Plus we wanted to swap the valve covers anyway...

Oh and the Cap and rotor...I swear I have to change mine out every 3-4 months. The contacts get all coroded in the cap and the rotor button almost burn thru. I have an MSD Coil.

stuart69427

Just be glad it wasn't the pump again

TomP

Stuart, I'm not laughing! If this pump dies again, it's going back to Pep Boys, and I'm throwing their lifetime warranty receipt in their face. I will get my money back. Going back every 2 years for an alternator is one thing; going back every 2 years for a fuel pump should NOT happen.

Red, yeah, definately send those injectors out. They made a hell of a difference in the way my car acts, and Rich had them back to me in a week (from NJ!). Just don't be like me, and forget to run injector cleaner through the tank every now and then. And I'd imagine that fuel pressure would eventually go to 0 on a car that sat "primed" all night. The relay only kicks on for a few seconds, and then stays shut off. What cap are you using?

Wayne, I hope not... I mean, the contacts were perfect this time, but the rotor was missing a chunk of plastic- where'd it go? Argh. I couldn't even find the plastic... guess it got destroyed. I use "Intake and Throttle Body Cleaner", in a gray (was yellow) bottle with red cap, made by Gumout.

MD, 100 per injector? Damn! We're in the wrong business!

stuart69427

what does he charge again? i forgot...

MDv6man

Amen to that brother

6cycbird86

tom- im currently goin through the same thing-cause at start it was putting out about 45 like yours- - i just had the pressure regulator replaced and it does idle better- although i had another prob im not sure if its related to the fuel presure but when cruising at low rpm my car would hesitate and jump - i read the top half of the postand Redraif was talking about the cap and roter -so i decided to check mine out and its coroded all to hell- does a dirty rotor amke the car hesitate- or do i have bigger problems?

stuart69427

take a steel brush (or dremel with stainless steel brush tip) and clean that rotor now! You'll thank yourself later.

That very well could be your problem, cuase that corrosion could be blocking the "spark" from reaching its destination which could cuase your hesitation jumping around that your recieving...

redraif

We will prob get a set this weekend and send them off. I want to be sure the car is running right by the end of August. I plan to go from GA up to OH for the TA nationals in Dayton.

Cap and Rotor, nothing special. I think 1/2 my problem is getting the ones from Autozone. They are the red ones with brass contacts (can't remember the name) Probably junk. I was actually gonna ask what is the best you can get and give it a go to see if it helps.

WaynesRS

Prabably a wells your using . They aren't junk . Sounds like something is up though to be eating that many . Now if its not a wells it maybe junk . I used wells before I got my Accel , I had one of them on the car for 3 years , then changed it and I really didnt need to then had another one for 3 years and changed it . Unless it is wells and your just having badluck with them .

I have an accel cap , but I took it off when I noticed my coil post was loose , then when I took it off my rotor did not fit snug on the distributor and was bobing from side to side . I took that off to and replaced it with a bluestreak cap and rotor . I got it at Advance . .......Borgwarner , Blue Streak , Wells are usually good brands . . .....Try accel if you want to but you have to order it . Some people have bad luck with them . I have had bad luck with their cap and rotor kit , so I prabably wont get another one .

XxPichulonxX

Bluestreak cap and rotors are really awesome, ihave it on my car and are so much better than stock

Belker

"my car has a fit in the mornings. I'll start it, it'll rev up, rev down, and stall. This process will repeat continuously unless I press the gas down- at which point, instead of stalling, the motor stumbles for a while, then revs up even higher, then rev's down, tries to stall, I press the gas, it stumbles, rev's up, rev's down, etc... "

I had an extremely similar problem lately, the shop I took it to said they couldn't acurately diagonose the problem with their computer because of fuel pressure problems. I had been driving the car for at least 6 months and really didn't think it was the fuel pump because they usually go out pretty quick. Anyway ... I had them change the fuel pump and the problem was solved.

Nixon1

Tom...wonder if something in your cap made the spark jump for some reason and screw up your cap? I've heard of sparking jumping to the plastic somehow on caps and cracking them...with a few hard repeated hits, I can imagine it'd be able to take a chunk out of the rotor....but where it went is a good question! Got any melted plastic on your distributor base?

I agree with Pichulon...I had a Blue Streak one and the car's rough idle problem greatly cut back once I installed it. With the new plugs and 8mm wires too, it started quicker and ran better..I was EXTREMELY happy..and the price for the cap and rotor wasn't too bad $20 for brass terminals and a color to match my car! (Blue cap, blue car)