Black 86 'bird

Which engine rebuild kit from PAW do you guys suggest? I plan on getting a separate cam and whatnot. BTW, anyone know who has 1.6 rollers for the 173? While I'm at it, how 'bout which tranny rebiuld kit and shift improver kit do you think I should look at?

stuart69427

i don't have a PAW catalog, but they sell cast and forged kits. obviously the forged is better, but it is extremly expensive for our cars!

You can get 1.56 or 1.6 rollor rockers from Crane Cams. Call Summit Raceing, they will know what your talkin about! THey also sell the 2030 cam that you'll want to through on there!

stuart69427

as far as the shift kit, you want to go "TRANSGO" kit, the B&M kit is worthless, ask TomP, he'll tell you!

Black 86 'bird

I was planning on the forged piston kits, moly rings and things like that. It's just I don't know what to pick I know I don't need the kits with the cam, but there are a few others that I can't decide on.

AFrikinGoodTime

By the time you purchase all of the motor parts, gaskets etc.. you'll probably spend in upwards of $1000 including the rockers. Then you have to dip and line bore the block and put it all together. My advice would be to check out an upgrade to a 3.4 new performance crate motor from GM. In my opinion, you can not compete with GM technology when it comes to performance and RELIABILY. Check it out from Jim Pace Performance GM Parts.
160 hp and 194ft/lbs torque.

click on-PPGM crate engines, then click on-GM V6 60/90
http://www.paceparts.com/

Black 86 'bird

Dip and line bore? Does not sound cheap...

AFrikinGoodTime

If you want to do a rebuild the correct way, the used block can have ever so slight warpage to it. the crank journals need to be re aligned to insure percision and reliability. The cylinder walls should be honed, and basically everything checked in the block for cracks etc.. and fixed. Then it should be chemically dipped to remove debris from machine work.

Your heads should be redone also.

It is much cheaper to buy a new crate motor and start from scratch unless you do this for a living.

Again, you can not compete with factory motors when it comes to price and reliabilty. I'm not trying to scare you from doing it, but if you rebuild it yourself, there is more to it than just bolting in new parts. I learned this from my younger VW hotrod days. Man I when through alot of money and time back then. I could build them fast for cheap but they didn't last long.

Black 86 'bird

Heh... I definitely do NOT plan on doing this myself I'll make sure the people I take it to do what needs to be done. Can I reuse the stock rods and crank or should I get the kit the comes with both? Another thing, is it ok to use the 2030, 1.6 rockers, and the TCI break away converter? Does the 2030 have a lope to it? Thanks again.

AFrikinGoodTime

I've had a big arguement on another post about the bottom end of the 2.8 motors. I have been told from several different sources- one of them being the most respected GM parts man in the country that the bottom end of the 3.1 & 3.4 motors are much better platforms to build on. He has told me (and this is where others have taken offence and argued with me otherwise about) not to rev any 2.8 V6/60 over 4000rpm's too often- only occationally. They don't handle the higher revs as well as the 84mm stroked motors do. Now I will tell you what I told them, take this opinion with a grain of salt if you wish. I know the sources I've heard these comments from and I take it to heart. This is why I recommend the HT3.4 performance crate motor from GM. I look for power and longevity out of a motor and I plan on putting this same engine in my car instead of messing with my 2.8. I am fortunate to have the money to do as I wish with my cars and could easily afford to convert this to a V8, however, lightweight V6's corner on rails and are more fun to me for this reason.

The cam you ask about , I don't know what the profile is but I can assure you to put heavier valve springs in even if you are just using the 1.6 rockers with the stock cam. I personally like converters without any higher stall to them so the car does not unload as much in the corners if the r's were to drop below the stall. I'm not into the drag race stuff, its not my style. I do own a roadrace suspension Vette that will still turn 10.9's. I use to solo race it and was sponsored by Cone Chev. in Fullerton,Ca. and Centerforce Clutches (Mike Hayes). I even helped develop the dual friction clutch in this car. I'm telling you this info to give you alittle background of myself and assure you that I am not a 15 yr old kid giving you false info. I'm 35 and my father an I have been around alot of big names in the car industry for yrs. I've ripped some people in these boards and am not well like because of it but oh well.

Good luck with your decissions.

TomP

And, of course, I and my 237,000 mile 2.8 V6 disagree 100% with AFrikinGoodTime and his sources. My motor's seen over 4grand many times, and is still running. https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...&postid=790067

You should have the block hot-tanked and magnafluxed as step one, anyway. If your block is cracked, why rebuild the motor? Hot tank = putting the block in a bath of hot acid, burning off any old grease or sludge. Magnaflux = checks for cracks. Hopefully your motor won't need a line bore... which makes sure all the crank journals are aligned.

I've done messages about rebuilding motors and machine work on this forum already, do a search, you'll pull 'em up. But two things; don't rebuild an engine without having the appropriate machine work done, and you might want to buy your rebuild kit from the machine shop doing the work- it might cost $50 more, but since you're buying their kit, it's up to them to make sure the bearings all fit, the pistons all fit, etc.

The connecting rods are strong enough; if you want stronger, you'll have to have custom ones made. A set of forged pistons (from PAW) runs an instant $300 more, so you might want to skip forged pistons. When I rebuild a junkyard 2.8, I won't put forged pistons in, cast will be fine for me, and will handle a nitrous shot.

You'd have to have your crank & rods magnafluxed and checked for straightness to see if they're okay to re-use. Remember that a crank labeled as "rebuilt" might have the mains underground to the maximum, which would weaken the crank. It's better to pay the shop to take 0.010" off the crank than find out your rebuilt crank has had 0.030" taken off. You can have the rods shot-peened to make them stronger... but how strong of a motor do you want?? What are you planning to do?

Stuart's right, skip the B&M Kit, go with the TransGo one. I put the B&M kit in myself, on my garage floor, and found out about the TransGo kit a couple years later. (oops) So when I rebuild the trans, I'll be putting the Transgo kit in. I was going to go with the full-out "Race" B&M rebuild kit for $300, but hell, my motor's just a V6, the trans doesn't need to be that strong. So it'll get a stock rebuild kit and the TransGo shift kit. Go to the trans/drivetrain forum and either search the messages for TransGo, or put a message up- there's tons of info there about B&M vs TransGo.

Black 86 'bird

Thanks guys. I am for sure keeping the 2.8 in. I need to sort all this out and get a game plan here...

TomP

Oh and in case you didn't know, our 700r4 automatic is the same as the v8's 700r4 automatic. Only major difference is that we use a smaller case, to bolt up to our smaller motor. There were minor differences inside the trans itself (v6 700r4 used less clutches in the clutch packs than a v8 700r4; in one spot, GM used a thin sprag and spacer on the v6 trans, but a thick sprag on the v8 trans). But get this; you can't get a "v6 700r4" rebuild kit- only 700r4 rebuild kits- and they're meant for the v8's. So those minor internal differences don't matter. Oh and because of our smaller case, we need a smaller (v6) torque convertor- the v8 one is obviously too large.

Black 86 'bird

What size is our converter and is it the 30 spline?

TomP

Yeah, it should be a 30 spline. GM went to a 30 spline after '84... so 85-up will be 30 spline. Not sure of the size, though. You could always shoot the guys at bmracing.com man email, or maybe even call Summit. If you find out, let us know!