V6 Discussion and questions about the base carbureted or MPFI V6's and the rare SFI Turbo V6.

Failed missions !!

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Old Nov 29, 2002 | 11:48 AM
  #1  
Berlyn0963's Avatar
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From: Laurel MD 20707
Car: 91 Camaro RS
Engine: GM PP crate 350
Transmission: 700r4
Axle/Gears: 3:42 spooled 10 bolt
Failed missions !!

i failed my emissions test (MD) - there goes the money for the 265/50's i wanted

ok so the hydrocarbons : state standard 1.1000GPM
mine : 2.0749
the Carbon Monoxide : state 20.0000GPM
mine : 23.6266

so its way off the scale and they gimme a limited time to fix the problem. i hope they all rot and die in hell . but in the meantime U guys got any SAfe INexpensive suggestions to help me pass my upcoming retest? please dont say rubbing alcohol and methanol cuz it doesnt do my engine any justice ,
i got a stock kat and all stock sensors and i jsut got my oil and filter changed wednesday. please help me out if U can
thanks guys
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Old Nov 29, 2002 | 01:10 PM
  #2  
MDv6man's Avatar
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From: Elkton MD USA
Car: 1983, 1986
Engine: 2.8 2bbl, 2.8 MPFI
Transmission: 200C 3 speed, 700R4
Axle/Gears: 3.08, 3.42
My 83 had to go back for a second try...

I had to replace my PCV valve grommets on the valve covers because they were dry rotted and the valve kept popping out. I also had to fix the A.I.R. pipe to the catalytic converter.

Other than that I would suggest checking the timing and vaccum lines, give it a tune up, and replace the O2 sensor if it's old.
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Old Nov 29, 2002 | 05:58 PM
  #3  
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From: Central NJ, USA
Car: 1986 Firebird
Engine: 2.8 V6
Transmission: 700R4
When's the last time the car had a major tuneup? One misfiring cylinder can put out the same amount of pollution as twenty "good" cars!! High CO (carbon monoxide) can be as simple as an old dirty air filter. Not enough Oxygen gets into the engine, so instead of CO2 coming out, you get CO. Hydrocarbons are unburnt fuel; so it's most likely an ignition problem... all the causes would get fixed in a major tuneup, but here's the whole ignition deal- bad/dirty cap/rotor or cap/rotor contacts, improper ignition timing (should be set to STOCK 10 degrees advanced), bad spark plug wire, improper gap of spark plugs, worn out spark plugs, dirty spark plugs, dying battery or alternator (not enough voltage to get a good spark). So run thru the major tuneup, should cost about $100 (less if using cheap plug wires and air filter), and you should be good. If I can still pass on NJ's dyno with the mileage my car has, you should be able to!

Major tuneup link: https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...threadid=62882
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Old Nov 29, 2002 | 08:04 PM
  #4  
Berlyn0963's Avatar
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From: Laurel MD 20707
Car: 91 Camaro RS
Engine: GM PP crate 350
Transmission: 700r4
Axle/Gears: 3:42 spooled 10 bolt
could i also be running too rich or too lean?
if so how can i fix that problem?
should i dump a few cans of dry gas into my tank b4 i fill up that day?
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Old Nov 29, 2002 | 09:57 PM
  #5  
KED85's Avatar
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From: ****SoCal, USA****
My suggestions equals feeding the Maryland State coffers.
GO SPEEDING
GO SPEEDING DRIVING WITH PREMIMUM GAS
Then go for a smog pretest. I'll bet you never heated up your exhaust system enough to do the job.
IF that don't work.
Tom does have the right idea.
A good tune up.
New plug wires, plugs, cap/rotor just may be the problem solver.
Your vehicle does not throw any codes?
When was last time the O2 sensor was changed?

Last edited by KED85; Nov 30, 2002 at 11:37 AM.
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Old Nov 30, 2002 | 12:06 AM
  #6  
Project: 85 2.8 bird's Avatar
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From: BFE, MD
Car: 13 Ram 1500/ 78 Formy
Engine: 5.7 / 7.4
Transmission: 6sp / TH350
Axle/Gears: 3.55 posi / 3.23
this is why eventually I will get all my vehicles registered in TX, or at least the part I lived in . Yup, drive around the beltway up to College Park, turn around, go to the Woodrow Wilson Bridge via 295, take 95/495 back to the **** e-check place.

btw, how is that new bridge comming along? I was last there this summer.
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Old Nov 30, 2002 | 12:43 AM
  #7  
91FIREBIRDGT's Avatar
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From: Riverside, CA
Car: 1991 Firebird
Engine: 3.1LV6
Transmission: 700R4
Doesn't the gas tank cap also have something to do with emissions? just wondering what else could affect emissions?
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Old Nov 30, 2002 | 11:42 AM
  #8  
KED85's Avatar
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From: ****SoCal, USA****
Gas cap test is to control gas VAPORS! Same VAPORS you saw from lighter fluid for BBQ's, remember?
Shame we don't have more water, as one needs water to keep down real smog polluter, the dirt & dust raised by anything building or moving over ground dirt from the Inland Empire.
Second biggest is the soot from Diesels & such.
Third is auto emissions, forth is "human common uasge", fifth is just the bad weather days that cause the mix to make "brown yeech" in the air.
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Old Nov 30, 2002 | 03:01 PM
  #9  
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From: Laurel MD 20707
Car: 91 Camaro RS
Engine: GM PP crate 350
Transmission: 700r4
Axle/Gears: 3:42 spooled 10 bolt
i got all stock sensors as i said b4
there is no new bridge
the old one is still theres and its bumpy as hell
anywayz i think im just gonna go buy a 02 sensor and a new kat and take it in again
cuz thats the only thing i can think to do

*** forbid i own a chevelle.. i wouldnt be able to have it on the road.. come to think of it ... how does the poor working man who owns a old car like that with big v8's ever pass emissions..? .. i mean i seen fairly new dodge caravans and suzuki's and other late model sedans fail that day. . so wtf. . how come hey arent leineint on older cars? they will all pay in the end.. i wish for a plague on all of them for making my life so much harder and for them wanting me to take my only car off the road is rediculous... i hope the all die a painful and horrible death and burn in hell eternally.. .
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Old Nov 30, 2002 | 05:37 PM
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KED85's Avatar
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From: ****SoCal, USA****
From one who struggled to breathe everyday for the past 22 years, now....
You'll be amazed what a pollution alert day can do to your life.
I remember MANY pollution alert days in Washington, DC 1980 (I moved cross country 12-30-80).
I recall pollution so bad I couldn't see the Lincoln Memorial as I drove close by.
Be thankful a bad polluting car is off the road.
One can fix things ya know. ALOT of it, is PURE AND SIMPLE a decent tune up. What a big $150 or so. Ya make that back in increase in gas milage savings pure & simple, too.
Why should I have to suffer in my health because you don't care about others?
My 24 Month Old Son hopefully has a chance of NOT GROWING UP with breathing difficulities.
I am breathing air where I once couldn't live for past 20 years.
Pollution efforts have worked, I've seen it with my own tearing & clearing eyes.
You may think it's a pain now, but, promise, it's gonna get worse unless ya "read the rules" (think Stock Car Racing)
Why do you think I swapped in my 3.4 and made it look like a 1985? Pollution passing success guaranteed! Even in California!
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Old Nov 30, 2002 | 07:18 PM
  #11  
CaliCamaroRS's Avatar
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From: Los Angeles, CA
Engine: LH0 3.1L
Originally posted by Berlyn0963
wtf. . how come hey arent leineint on older cars?
They ARE lenient on older cars. Anything made before around 1972 is smog exempt.

BTW, did they test your NOx emissions?
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Old Nov 30, 2002 | 08:53 PM
  #12  
KED85's Avatar
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From: ****SoCal, USA****
ACTUALLY
I JUST GOT MY STATE PAPERWORK FOR MY 1974 CORVETTE
GUESS WHAT

SMOG
FREE
SMOG
FREE
SMOG
FREE
NO
MORE
SMOG
TEST AS LONG AS CAR IN MY OWNERSHIP.
This makes 3 of 5 cars one motorcycle smog free (2 unregistered cycles)

Last edited by KED85; Dec 1, 2002 at 03:25 AM.
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Old Dec 1, 2002 | 03:17 AM
  #13  
TomP's Avatar
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From: Central NJ, USA
Car: 1986 Firebird
Engine: 2.8 V6
Transmission: 700R4
Originally posted by Berlyn0963
could i also be running too rich or too lean?
if so how can i fix that problem?
should i dump a few cans of dry gas into my tank b4 i fill up that day?
Yeah, unburnt fuel usually means running rich or lean, which usually means ignition problem, and I'm not listing all the ways to fix it again. Am I misunderstanding the question, or didn't I explain the answer clearly? If you want to dump dry gas in and roll the dice on a clear bill of health, by all means, go for it!
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Old Dec 1, 2002 | 09:16 PM
  #14  
Project: 85 2.8 bird's Avatar
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From: BFE, MD
Car: 13 Ram 1500/ 78 Formy
Engine: 5.7 / 7.4
Transmission: 6sp / TH350
Axle/Gears: 3.55 posi / 3.23
ok, they were biulding a new bridge, and karl, you really need to move. That 76 Bonnie I had was smog exempt when it hit 25 yrs old.

does MD have one of those deals where if it costs so many $$$, you can get a waiver?
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Old Dec 1, 2002 | 10:19 PM
  #15  
KED85's Avatar
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From: ****SoCal, USA****
I plan on moving almost as soon as George Bush is outta office or the California Housing market boom goes bust.
I PUT IN "MY NEXT FIXER HOUSE" BID TONIGHT!
Best Christmas gift I can give my Wife.

Being in California during the 80's was like Disneyland every where ya went, everyday.
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Old Dec 1, 2002 | 10:45 PM
  #16  
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From: Orange,Calif
Originally posted by KED85
ACTUALLY
I JUST GOT MY STATE PAPERWORK FOR MY 1974 CORVETTE
GUESS WHAT

SMOG
FREE
SMOG
FREE
SMOG
FREE
NO
MORE
SMOG
TEST AS LONG AS CAR IN MY OWNERSHIP.
This makes 3 of 5 cars one motorcycle smog free (2 unregistered cycles)
You lucky bastard. I have been told repeatedly that the 25 yr exemption has been raised to 30yrs. That would put you to 2004 if so. I have a 77 SS El Camino that I am waiting patiently for.

Berlyn, Change your oil also. Fresh motor oil in the crankcase will help the emissions test signifficantly.
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Old Dec 2, 2002 | 09:32 AM
  #17  
KED85's Avatar
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From: ****SoCal, USA****
You lucky bastard. I have been told repeatedly that the 25 yr exemption has been raised to 30yrs. That would put you to 2004 if so. I have a 77 SS El Camino that I am waiting patiently for.

WHY IT WORKS THIS WAY

I understand completly as I was once in the US Senate in DC.

My 1974 Car was INTRODUCED to the SELLING PUBLIC in September of 1973.
THUS FOR REGISTRATION OF 2003, MY CAR IS DECLARED BY STATE OF CALIFORNIA TO BE ALREADY
THIRTY YEARS OLD
Again, Catch-22 is that IF I sell this car, it need be resmogged & has to be "correct".
YET
FOR ME
SMOG
FREE
AS FREE
AS THE WINDS BLOWS (& my ownership!)
I/We at Corvette Forum had a VERY BIG discussion about this little 30 year detail and my Last Passing Smog Test!
Using the original issued L-48 Federal Version engine (w/auto) with 125,000 miles & advanced 4* at cam by new timing chain. Engine NEVER REBUILT YET & now puffing some blu in the AM, big deal, give me more 30 weight oil!

YEah, I do feel pretty damn fortunate to live in this wonderful state.
That's why I suggest read teh smog law rules & work them in your favor, you win.
What are my 1974 Corvette plans?
1963-64-65 Corvette Mechaincal Fuel injection unit under there one day. Ever since I saw a pic of a 1973 w/1965 FI, my mind was set!
My Brother has one & I want one too.
Problem is, the CFM is so small only about 670 CFM.
My factory Rochester is rated at 750CFM
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Old Dec 2, 2002 | 10:20 AM
  #18  
Project: 85 2.8 bird's Avatar
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From: BFE, MD
Car: 13 Ram 1500/ 78 Formy
Engine: 5.7 / 7.4
Transmission: 6sp / TH350
Axle/Gears: 3.55 posi / 3.23
you sure you want mechanical fuel injection?
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Old Dec 2, 2002 | 11:00 AM
  #19  
KED85's Avatar
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From: ****SoCal, USA****
It's a Classic Corvette owners dream to own the Corvette Fuel Injection.
IF you saw that pic as you looked at your own 1974 Corvettes in the drive way & you are 18.....

Simple to work upon as long as seals are tight.
It's mechainical fuel pump driven (at engine that big side box thing passenger side), using electric choke start up, just like on a carb.
Simple.
PS I've seen them go as low as $1500.
Parts are obtainable.
Easy to intregrate.
After a computer engine swap, this Corvette FI unit is piece of cake walk! I've been studying them since 1972.
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Old Dec 2, 2002 | 11:51 AM
  #20  
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From: Chasing Electrons
Car: check
Engine: check
Transmission: check
Originally posted by KED85
It's a Classic Corvette owners dream to own the Corvette Fuel Injection.
IF you saw that pic as you looked at your own 1974 Corvettes in the drive way & you are 18.....

Simple to work upon as long as seals are tight.
It's mechainical fuel pump driven (at engine that big side box thing passenger side), using electric choke start up, just like on a carb.
Simple.
PS I've seen them go as low as $1500.
Parts are obtainable.
Easy to intregrate.
After a computer engine swap, this Corvette FI unit is piece of cake walk! I've been studying them since 1972.
Ah yes, the Rochester FI setup, the Fuelie. They are great setups. They were also offered on Pontiacs at one time.

RBob.

Who with antique tags has no inspections what-so-ever. Then I drive the other car less then 5,000 miles year for emissions exemption (and that's the cleanest car, always passed easily).
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Old Dec 2, 2002 | 11:57 AM
  #21  
Project: 85 2.8 bird's Avatar
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From: BFE, MD
Car: 13 Ram 1500/ 78 Formy
Engine: 5.7 / 7.4
Transmission: 6sp / TH350
Axle/Gears: 3.55 posi / 3.23
I've been studying them since 1972.
dude, you shouldn't date yourself like that. I was working on gestating until aug that year. Paint the front of the bird yet?
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Old Dec 2, 2002 | 05:10 PM
  #22  
KED85's Avatar
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From: ****SoCal, USA****
Couldn't be happier to have been where I've been.
The 1957 Bonneville first year name plate for Pontiac about 12 of those cars made & yes, fewer today.
Six figure cars, too especially the FI models.
Painting the front of bird shortly, as soon as my sprained shoulder heals to use a DA.
I already posess the new front end cover.
Right now I await an extra day for recovery to remount the power steering pump in my S-10 Blazer.
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Old Dec 2, 2002 | 08:25 PM
  #23  
RBob's Avatar
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From: Chasing Electrons
Car: check
Engine: check
Transmission: check
For anyone interested in the Rochester FI setup here are the scanned pages from a factory service manual. It is definately worth a look-see:

ftp://ftp.diy-efi.org/incoming/ROCHFI1.zip
ftp://ftp.diy-efi.org/incoming/ROCHFI2.zip

Later,

RBob.
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Old Dec 5, 2002 | 08:39 PM
  #24  
Project: 85 2.8 bird's Avatar
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From: BFE, MD
Car: 13 Ram 1500/ 78 Formy
Engine: 5.7 / 7.4
Transmission: 6sp / TH350
Axle/Gears: 3.55 posi / 3.23
passed yet?
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