ok here's the deal... I have 500 bucks to spend on my car for power. I have the 2.8 V6 in an 1989 Firebird. I don't have a cherry picker so I can't take the motor out to swap it or any inside parts, such as cam. I want to know what I can do to it to crank out some more horsepower. I know others have asked this very same question, but I need specifics please. Any help would be greatly appreciated. And as far as componenets I might not know what they are so could you please explain. Thanks for all your help...
Thanks

 

u can put a cam in without taking out the motor, but somethings to do would be cam roller rockers, and a free mod porting the intake, thats $500 worth the stuff or a little over

 

not to sound stupid but what is free mod porting the intake? And rockers are the things under the valve covers right?

 

Dynomax catback, then TomP's Tune Up.

That'll be around $300 there... hmm... for $200, I'd say cam/lifters.

 

Catback, or atleast a good muffler.

Full blown tune up.

TPI air intake, or make a "cold air intake".

Then power crank pully.

Is aftermarket coil part of toms tuneup???


Not sure how much all that would be, but I bet its close.

 

The free mod for porting the intake is to take the intake off, draw a line inside the gasket on teh intake, and using a dremmel to get rid of everythig until the metal of the intake is flush with the gasket. It opens up the airway and smooths out the air. It's called a free mod because you can do it yourself, and it doesn't cost anything...as long as you have a dremmel and don't screw your intake up.

 

No, a coil isn't... I tried not to include any sensors or other hard parts in the tuneup. The idea behind it is, if there are problems, doing the major tuneup eliminates all the common "wear parts", and then you can do a good diagnosis on what's left. Example, someone might not get spark, but we've gotta see if their wires or cap or rotor are junk first.

But it's a great idea; when I went from the stock coil to the higher voltage aftermarket coil, I noticed a power increase in the upper RPM range.

Welcome to the board, Zyddian! Your best friend here for fast, "I want it now" information is the <a href="search.php?s="><img src="images/top_search.gif" alt="Search" border="0"></a> button, either click this one, or the one at the upper right of this screen. Remember to always choose the "v6 forum".

You don't have to pull the motor to swap the cam... just getting the radiator out of the way will supposedly give you enough room. Are you planning on doing all the work yourself? If so, you can definately have fun in the $500 range.

Another free mod involves boring out (making the insider wider) the cast iron "donuts" between the exhaust manifold (engine) and y-pipe (connects both manifolds into one pipe for the catalytic convertor, which is under the passenger side floorboard.) There's a sharp restrictive ridge in there. I took it down with a "rat tail" metal file, and then cleaned up the grooves from the file and polished the inside smooth with a grinding stone on my air die grinder. You could use sandpaper though, instead of a grinder, to get the grooves out. A round metal (not wood) file should be $2 or $3, I'd guess.

Anyway, I noticed a power increase from doing that; I didn't expect one, and it wasn't anything astounding, but for a bit of work, it was worth it. Keep in mind if you haven't ever undone the y-pipe-to-manifold nuts, they'll be rusted to hell. You might wind up snapping a stud, and then you'll be in hell for sure. Happened to me, luckily, I had a spare manifold in the basement. Doesn't everyone? (laughs)

 

actually tom, I do have an extra set

Still waiting on some pics of what to do to them from ya to spice them up before I get some ceramic coating to put on them, and my headers for the s10.

Might also want to check the timing chain. About 50 bux. I took my old 2.8l apart after a harsh 139,000+ miles and whoa, it needs one. See recent posting of pics. Will require some decent tools though. Will have to remove it to do cam swap anyway.

 

actually tomp, i believe that u wont have to take the raditior out to get the cam out, though im not certin, but it does look like it might slide outta there with out a problem, and im not sure if anyone answered is questions, yes rockers are the things under the valve covers which on my car atleast are a big pita to get off, mainly on the passager side

 

Really? Cool. That's true, I'm thinking of "front of the engine" with the water pump and timing chain on. Anybody know how long the cam is?

Dale, those donuts are attached to the exhaust manifolds you have, right? On my car, they were separate... in fact if the y-pipe-to-manifold nuts loosen, the donuts rattle around. It's my "clue" that the nuts loosened up.

Can't..stop..visiting...thirdgen.org...today......must..get..off..website...

 

lol, thirdgen is all i do 3rd and 4th bell (12-330) i figure the size of the motor (depth that the cam is probably 4 inches shorter, which would make it come out by a good 1/4 of a inch, i think the cam is about 20 inchs long or a little shorter, let me go check at crane cams real quick....well couldnt find the length, anyone intersted in taking there motor apart to tell us??

 

They must be buy themselfs. don't see much on these manifolds.

 

Headers and a y-pipe. This will allow the motor to flow above 4000rpm's (stock exhaust and y-pipe choke the motor above this rpm. Keep in mind that you will be running in a better powerband range through the shifts but will trash your motor faster from high revs.

 

cam is probobly abot same length as heads, or just a bit shorter

$500, nitrous kit w/fuel pressure shut off, & full bottle a few times save abit more & get that purge kit

 

To me
Your budget & request also boils down to one detail
How much ya really like your car & how long ya intend to retain it.
Once ya narrow down that time frame....
Start creating the final vision for your future needs.
Most power can be picked up in the form a 3.4 mill awaiting transplanting one day.
Ya can easily rent a cherry picker or rent the space for this swapping project.
Some here have bought a complete used runing 3.4 mill for as little as $210!
One uses about $100 in gaskets
One uses about $200 or probably way less in upgrading wear & tear parts for the swap.
Recoup money by sellng left over parts after the 2.8/3.1->3.4 swap.
I did & regained $105 for my effort.
Alot of common upgrades are next to free (fresh air setups).
Next is ignition systems (about $30-100)
Exhaust upgrades cost lots of money due to using someone elses talents & labor, parts.
Best exhaust upgrade is creating a smoother flowing "Y" pipe. Replace current exhaust with a wrecking yard 3.8 V-6/V-8 system from a 4th gen. I recently used a F Body 1995 3.4 CC on my 3rd gen ride. FIT PERFECT! Rest of pipes should be just as form fitting, I'll bet!
Don't exclude a good tranny rebuild with the $500 funds, too.

 

LOL... you're right... duh... never thought about it that way! Thanks!

 

AGood2.8, where have you been. They don't make header for our cars and those custom ones that they sell on this board are outrageously expensive. I think it would cost well over 500 dollars, and if he doesn't do the rest of his exhaust, or port the plenum it will be worthless. Because once the exhaust gets past the headers it will be restricted again by the stock exhast. Also if the manifold is not ported or there are no intake mods then the engine cannot breathe better anyways so there is really no use for headers.

 

Well first of all thanks for all your insight everyone. As far as the car goes I definately wanna keep it. I have been a man on a mission to find a good solid Firebird with T tops forever. I finally found her. Anyway all the work will be done by me. And as for boring out the intake I still don't quite know what you mean but think I have an idea. Anyway could you show me a few pics of abored out intake? And I do wanna find another motor to put in it, I'd like to see what I can do to the 2.8 first. Thanks again everyone, and anymore insight would be greatly appreciated. Oh and Tomp where is that ultimate tune-up? Can someone send me a link?
later

 

pic of moded tb, cost: $5 or so for permatex liguid metal/ metal putty.

 

Where have I been? Certainly I am not a Frikin SanFranciscan Liberal- thats for certain- You quacks up there are far worse than any L.A. politician.

You are right they don't make headers for our cars- They were discontinued because people like you are cheap asses and expect things for free (got news for you, Hooker and Hedman DID) But your the expert and of course knew that.

Guy on top of this board sells headers for $315- thats very reasonable

As for the rest of the Exhaust being restrictive so headers are pointless(Your opinion- also a wrong one) If someone like Zyddian plans to invest money into a car with intention to modify it- why the heck would you waste your investment on a car that you want tomodify but leave restrictive stock exhaust manifold and factory "T" shaped headpipe that has no flow above 4000rpm's. Anything else you atttach to that motor is useless unless you free this up.

So in conclusion, I won't bother asking you where you've been, I think we all know your head's still in there.Oh yes here's a pic of production headers that will fit our cars (not lowered that is.)

 

here's a comparision of what headers allow us to do to the intake, without headers, this would be pointless.

 

Best thing ya can do to a 2.8 is keep it running.
Build up all ya can, that can swap over to a newer mill one day.
Ignition system, fuel system (new fuel pump), have made a smoother flowing "Y" pipe junction.
Enjoy the product at that point.
Beyond that, ya spending money ya may not "feel" a return on seat of pants feeling.
Yep, manufactures sure did make headers for this V-6 ride.
So did manufactures make superchargers for this 60* V-6 ride, too.
Weak market for demand to continue.

 

Ok.... Hookers look nice but since "your the expert" what do people do about EGR mount for the smog police. I don't think it had to do with "cheap asses" more like NO EGR mount so nobody can use them other then carb. I don't think anyboby can call a person with a carb. 2.8 a cheapass for not wanting to waste their money on a carb. car now days. Now if they had EGR mount on a set of 3rd gen v6 headers I could careless about cost.

 

you can drill and tap a hole for the EGR mount yourself.

 

I wish it was that easy for the electronic EGR but it would take more then that.

 

Why's that? How does the digital EGR connect? I thought it connected the same was as the 85-89 EGR... mainly to the manifold, with a copper-colored tube leading from the valve to the throttle body.

 

HEY I RESENT THE CARB REMARK!!! Are you callin a person with a carb cheap? cause let me say I won't drive it unless it's got a carb. and I am takeing the time and money to rebuild my 2.8 CARBED and plan on hypin it enough to run the 500cfm 2barrel. when I took it apart I already 200hp dynoed on it. and it out ran a couple a gt rustangs

 

Hey Ryan, would ya looky there- An EGR mount! How much money did you say you'd by them from me?

 

Here's a stock '92 3.1 V6 passengerside exhaust manifold equipped to hold the digital EGR- compare it to my headers above.

 

Is that in the same horizontal plane as the stock one so that the tube that goes to the throttle body mates up with out mod. From the pic it doesn't look like it.

Nope, in my opionion your wasting your money. Better investing in a carb v8 of some kind then the 2.8.

 

Anyone here have a set of headers that will fit my 2.8? And if so are you interested in selling them to me? Also thanks for all your help... Here's what I'm gonna do. I am definately going to follow the Tomp tune-up. And among other things change the stock exhaust for something with more air flow. (In other words go to the bone yards and look for a newer firebird.) Also I have devised a way to run a turbo charger, and I am going to K&N-Ram Air the air intake. I have devised a way to run some cold air flow without changing my hood. You can build these yourself, if you know how to shop for the right parts. But I'm sure you guys already know that. And I'm gonna kill a lot of the weight in the car. Basically anything that isn't important will be coming out. Oh and one more question what gear ratio is my rear end? 1989 Firebird, anyone know? And where can I find a set of posi gears for this baby... Wish me luck fellas and I'll keep you guys up on how the work is going.
Thanks again

 

Oh and if any of that is a bad idea please let me know...

 

Stop and think for 1 second and you'd figure things out for yourself sometimes- ask yourself-"why does he have a stock passengerside manifold?" Answer: So exact calculations could be taken of the EGR angle and duplicated. Its the angle of the pictures that are throwing you buddy, take a look again next time before you mock my intelegence.

 

I was just asking to be clear, man, somebody here has a inferiority complex.

 

I had a question about the EGR mount myself, glad I didnt ask.