So I got more suspension stuff today!! Part numbers follow!

KYB-236001 (bought 2), KYB GR-2 front struts
KYB-K65562 (bought 2), KYB gas-a-just rear shocks
KYB-SM5027, right upper strut mount w/bearing
KYB-SM5028, left upper strut mount w/bearing
MOG-DS1049, center link
MOG-ES2032S, tie rod adjusting sleeve
MOG-ES2226RL, outer tie rod end
MOG-ES2227RL, inner tie rod end
MOG-K6249, idler arm

And, some stupidity: On the http://www.federalmogul.com catalog, next to the tie rod part numbers, it said "two per". I thought that meant "two per box". Yeah, well, I was wrong. I wound up with one inner tie rod, one outer tie rod, and one adjusting sleeve- DAMMIT!! So I gotta place another order for those.

The center link box was damaged; upon opening it, found out the bag got carved out (and slit open) by the threads of the idler arm attaching point. One of the castellated nuts was loose in the box, there are two other nuts that don't fit anything (?), and the grease fittings are gone. I guess someone noticed the hole in the box, saw two nuts on the ground, and threw them in? So I think I'm gonna send it back to Summit for a replacement. Gotta order the other tie rod ends anyway. I could probably find a grease fitting at a parts store, but I don't know if I need a self-cutting one or one meant for a threaded hole. Looks like the holes are threaded, but can't tell for sure (moog put some grease in the holes).

Those strut mounts were killer... $59.95 each! That's more then a strut ($49.95 each)! What's cool is, they're black... glad they weren't some funky color.

All that's left is the springs!! (And the rag joint, but I'm not counting that yet.) Summit says they're a special order; takes a few weeks to get here. So I gotta search the 'ol net to find someone selling the Suspension Techniques springs who has them in stock- anyone know of a company? Part # for the v6 lowering springs is 60115.

Man I can't wait to throw this stuff on. Gonna buy new hardware for the control arm (bolts & nuts) this week, and I've also got to pick up a balljoint press and a strut alignment tool (the magnetic bubble-level that goes on the brake rotor or strut body).

The Gas-a-just shocks seem harder to compress then the gr-2 struts, if that matters any. One bummer; the struts are a nice aluminum color, the shocks are painted white. I like the aluminum color. I think I'll take my rattle can of aluminum paint to the rear shocks! (If I can find that can, that is.)

If all goes well, I'd like to tackle this sucker next weekend. I figure I'll take Monday off, and do all the work Sunday and Monday. Then I'll go limp over to my alignment shop!

 

Good luck with that balljoint press. I'd be interested to hear if you can get the balljoints out. I tried and tried. I gave up. I couldn't find a real balljoint press anywhere, so I made one. Those suckers wouldn't budge. My new plan is to get "new" control arms. I'll use an industrial hydraulic press to swap the ball joints in the new arms. Besides, the hole where the torsion bar link connects to the arm is badly ovaled. Let me know how the balljoints go.

 

Couple comments/questions -

What's the purpose of the strut mounts?

If I'm not mistaken, you'll need an adjustable panhard bar to re-center the rear end when you lower the car, as well.

Get the shocks on! I'm trying to figure out what shocks I want to get for my Camaro... I'm really thinking the AGX series, or those Gas-A-Justs...

 

On my camaro i have Monroe Sensatrac they are really good shocks and struts. I paied 75 for front and back my friend worked at a parts place and got me a good deal on them. On my 68 firebird i got The kyb Gas Adjusts The back is stiff as a board you cant even push down on it i also put new leafs on so thats part of it and the front im pputting moog springs and kybs in front. But both i feel are a very good shock.

 

Tom you went with Summit instead of Northern Auto Parts?
I still have to do my 85 Firebird front linkage, along with .....
Fast RS, my 67 Camaro with the old original g0d knows what brand shocks, new leaf springs & the old Lakewood long traction bars is stiff as a sun baked worm also.
I'll bet my 67 Camaro shocks were used during it's 1970's drag racing days!

Has the Firebird been towed away for the life saving operation?

They do sell oversized lower ball joints.
Perhaps heating the ball joints to remove may assist?
Comes down to the talents of the man operating the press machine

 

TOM.........


Send it ALL back to Summit, and then check www.rockauto.com they are the cheapest I've seen on the MAJORITY Of all brand name parts.

Case in point. I added up all the parts you're buying from Summit.
Including the correct # of each part.

The total WITH Shipping from RockAuto is $275.21

This doesn't include the shocks / struts or the strut mounts.



HTH

 

I do not recommend Monroe Sensatrac at all. Mine didn't last very long. And they only have a one year warranty. Make sure you get a shock/strut with a better warranty.

I'm also thinking of going with the kyb gas-a-just.

 

so suspension techniques sells lowering springs for our car that is part #60115. The site that I found that sell them is:

http://www.buyperformance.com/produc...=1055014305000

 

So no one's told me... what's the purpose of the strut mounts?

 

They hold your camber and caster settings via movement of the strut rod angle. The bushings when worn can cause excess play and cause flex in suspension geometry causing mostly camber change in hard cornering thus not allowing the tire contact patch to remain as flat as potential to the ground.

I run full race strut mounts- Custom HMS aluminum mounts (they were a limited production run- only about 20 sets in existence). They have an Aurora solid sperical bearing mount- no rubber or urethane- absolutely no play at all- This car steers like a jet fighter, its very responsive.

 

Monroe sensatrac's have a lifetime guarntee as long as you save the recipt you can return them to any place that sells them. IE any authorized dealer.

Ked My freinds lotr is full i was there the other day and could not walk through there at all it was a friggin maze he had cars flowing onto the street.

I dont have my camaro right now I hit a truck tire on the 118 by balboa and it messed up the front end not bad but still it was messed up. So its in the body shop right now im going to have them repaint the whole car and shave my antena off and get rid of some doordings since its there.

I have a set of the suspension tecniques lowering springs at first the ride is bumpy as hell but iys one of those things you get used to and dont even notice but they are a very good spring. i paied 200 bucks for my set from SHOX.COM

 

Well the Sensatracs I got only had a one year warranty. I talked to the people where I bought them (actually my brother works there), and I'm certain there's only a one year. Maybe if you pay more you get a lifetime.

 

When i read the warrenty card that came with mine it said take them to any authorized monroe dealer wth the recipt and they will return them for a new set. I have had mine on my car for 5 years and have not had any problems with them at all.

 

I checked out the Monroe website, and the Sensatracs only have a 90 day warranty. The Reflex comes with a lifetime warranty. I guess I just got a bad set, because mine only lasted a couple of years.

 

How long ago did you get them? Because the Sensatrac a few years ago where the top of the line but now they arent maybe they switched the warrnty to there new ones.

 

I have inexpensive, replacable lifetime warrantied Gariels on the Firebird now.
For the price, I'm pleased.
For the bling-bling, AGood2.8, DAMN!
Nice work.

 

hey tom, do you have any pics of the strut mounts that you got? Are they anything special or are they just like the stock ones that our cars came with.

 

Damn, $275?? I paid a little under $500 (bought a creeper seat too, haha)... hm. Yeah I went with Summit instead of NAParts just because I usually deal with Summit, no other special reason.

They're stock replacement mounts; my suspension shop told me the passenger's side mount was shot. That's the one I used from my '84 parts car back when I totalled my '86 (the original strut mount got all bent up, it's in the basement somewhere as an emergency spare; I should really throw it out). So I figured I'd just replace both with stock units. They told me the driver's side mount is okay; and that's got 250,000 miles on it, so I figure stock lasts pretty long. Plus I'm not really slammed to the ground, or have an exotic suspension like AGood2.8, so I can't justify custom mounts to myself.

I had Sensatrac struts installed on my car in '96, right after I rebuilt the car after totalling it. They were amazing compared to my "one worn '86 strut, one worn '84 strut" ride, and completely kicked butt compared to when I had both '86 struts on there. Back then, there was a lifetime warranty. I could probably cash in on it! But I figure, screw it, I'll just start fresh with the KYB's.

Thanks for the suppliers, FASTRS and bes217! I'll check 'em out. I heard of shox.com before. Did both of those places have the springs in stock? I'd like them ASAFP! I'd like to rebuild the front end this upcoming weekend. I'm sure it'll rain though

 

Well, I got them probably 4 years ago, but I didn't think to check if they were under warranty until maybe last summer. But I'm thinking I need new springs all around, so that may be why they didn't last too long.

When I first got the car 5 years ago, the shocks were pretty bad. I replaced them a year later. When I took them off I used my little finger to push the rod in, and it didn't come back out. I should have known. Any small imperfection in the road when I was accelerating, and my tires were up in the air spinning away. I'm about back to the same point right now.

 

With auto parts, lots of manufactures changing their lifetime warranty policy.
Thankfully, I have kept all of my lifetime warranty paperwork, dating back to 1990 to 1993. I haven't bought new brake pads for my cars since that original paperwork. Think times 3-5 cars, since 1990-93 & that adds up!

Gabriel replaced the shocks on my Wife's 1968 Camaro because of a phone conversation I had with them. Nice girl with a Southern Accent!
Days later, 4 new Gabriel shocks at the door! FOR FREE, including shipping!

Would the Firebird springs work on my 1985 S-10 Blazer?
I'll bet I may have a front end lowering problem drat!

 

Hey Karl, were the studs on your tie rod ends pointed like these are? I think they're pointed "strangely" because they're joints, and can move around. I tried moving them by hand but they won't budge; I'm probably just not pushing hard enough. I'd think the studs should point "straight up", not at angles.

But if there's a chance these are bent, they'll go back to Summit along with the center link

Thanks!

Oh- the left tie rod end is the outer, Moog #ES2226RL. The right tie rod end is the inner, Moog #ES2227RL.

 

Duh, I forgot the picture. It'd be nice to edit a message to add a picture. Oh well. Here's the shot:

 

Got the confirmation from RB, that yeah, they're a joint. He said I could probably move 'em if I put a piece of pipe over them for leverage, but I won't bother (for now)!

 

Tom, those are the normal looking items.
I'LL BET THAT
There is NO grease in there, also, right?
No need to worry.
Grease them up, insert into the center link & ya good to go.
WHEN YA remove the old linkage from the tie rod sleeve, COUNT how many times, until the tie rods come out. Duplicate that number (it took 31 revolutions until the tie rod came out from sleeve, so it takes 31 revolutions to seat new tie rod in "old position") as ya rebuild the front linkage.
Your steering will be CLOSE for ease of driving to shop for alignment.
Removal of suspension is at STEERING BOX pitman arm, two nuts at idler arm on frame, and the two outter tie rod ends to lower A Arms.
Then whole linkage is on ground, in one piece.

 

Thanks for the tips! And yep, those ends were grease-free. As of now, I've got my balljoint press ordered, and http://www.shox.com is going to drop-ship my springs out to me. All I have to do is order one more tie rod set, inner & outer & sleeve, and I'm set. (I can't believe I just ordered one side... dammit.)

I think too I'm going to order another center link and send the original back to Summit. I'd rather have the grease fittings right in front of me then hunt for 'em, I think. Plus I don't know if I need self-cutting fittings or ones that are meant for a threaded hole; Moog put some grease in the center link's ends. Don't know why they put grease there, and not in the tie rod ends, but hey, who cares. They're getting Mobil 1 synthetic anyway.

I'll definately do that tie rod adjustment tip. And check it out, I ordered a strut alignment tool too! ($15.19 at toolparadise.com) <img src="http://www.tptoolbox.com/Database/TA/61800.jpg"> I'd like to try to get the alignment as close as possible to spec; maybe that'll amaze my tire shop.

 

I'm still curious to know how that item the struts mount in, can wear out.
TO ME, that don't seem right.
Education time, T.I.A.

 

No prob; it's that rotten bearing. Over time, it just wears out. You can't just replace the bearing on a stock-style mount, so the whole mount has to get replaced. AGood's mounts allow the bearing to be replaced.

I asked the shop how they knew the strut mount was worn out, he said when he lifted the car up, he saw the upper strut stud "drop". And that was probably the cause of my "comes and goes" noise from the right front; once in a while, if I was turning in a parking lot, that side would groan pretty loudly.

 

No prob; it's that rotten bearing.

There is a bearing in that thing?
This is the first car I've owned with this type suspension set up.

 

If you can call it that; it's almost more like a sleeve. When I take all my pictures, I'll take a pic of it for ya.

Side note; don't go to the dealer for nuts/bolts if you don't have to... I'm now $51 poorer when I could've just spent $20 thru http://www.gmpartsdirect.com ...

 

For those not following my suspension post on the suspension forum:

Updates!

1) Summit's backordered on the inner tie rod end, ES2227RL. They shipped me the ES2226RL from Nevada; it comes Wednesday. Too Late! Solution: Buy locally.

2) Got "NOS" Moog ES2227RL today. The box says "Moog by Cooper copyright 1993" on it, nothing about Federal Mogul. All my other boxes say Federal Mogul, and have federalmogul.com written on the boxes. UPSIDE: NOS tie rod end is much beefier then the federal mogul ones! DOWNSIDE: Doesn't have the gold iridite "problem solver" on the bottom of the joint, so it won't match all my other components. That rates a 2.2 on my "I give a damn scale". Almost makes me want to buy another one of those old-school Moog tie rod ends (inner) for the other side.

3) Got the ES2226RL locally.

4) Forgot about the upper spring isolators! Ordered two new ones from GM. The "real" GM part number for them is 14047915. I paid $10.33/each at the dealer, gmpartsdirect.com has them for much cheaper

5) Got the balljoint tool (made by OTC) and the alignment bubble in the mail. The balljoint tool is made well; no corners cut at all, and came with a nice case, instructions for the tool, and a book of tips for using OTC tools on alignment and suspension. Also picked up an internal spring compressor locally for $25.

6) Got the hardware from the dealer. The #3983037 nuts were replaced (by GM) with the #11500952 nuts; same ones used for the rear lower control arms. The dealer gave me something like a 75 cent credit

7) Found an excellent post by UkraineTrain on how he used his balljoint press to push in new bushings! Message is here: https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...hreadid=154669 If you think you'll ever do your bushings, print that post out!! The photos are worth a million words.

8) Discovered that the KYB strut mounts - no, ANY strut mounts, whether GM or Moog or KYB or Monroe or etc - will not fit 82-86 f-bodies. There's a difference! For the details, look at message https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...hreadid=183622 . The solution is to get the retainers from an 87-92 f-body.

9) Went home during lunch to play with my new springs, and found out UPS left a "signature required" sticker on the door- even though my dad was home. Next attempt would be Monday- no good! (Too late!) Called UPS and tried to arrange a pickup for today, since they're closed Sat & Sun. As soon as I cursed them out on the Suspension board, they called me, and said I could pick them up between 7:00 and 7:30. You're damn straight I'll be there at 6:30!

 

a tip on somthing i gave actually done. while pulling ball joints BE CAREFULL. we did a suspension bushing replacement on my brothers nissan 240sx and had to buy all new a arms because we F-d up the ball joints with tha fork thingie. so easy to tear that rubber. watch out for that.

 

Thanks for the tip; I've popped the balljoints free of the knuckle before (replaced the knuckle from my accident), had to be careful placing the pickle fork in there. But this time I'm replacing the balljoints too, so it doesn't matter too much. Why'd you replace the a-arms? Can't the balljoint be removed from a Nissan?

I just hope the seat inside the steering knuckles are okay!! The wear indicators popped out on the balljoints; hopefully the knuckles aren't ruined. I'll take pics of the wear indicators... didn't know how they looked until I actually saw them. So if you go to look for wear indicators and can't find 'em, you're fine. You'll know when they appear!

 

If you can call it that; it's almost more like a sleeve. When I take all my pictures, I'll take a
pic of it for ya.

I saw mine the other day.
One twists/rotates, one did not.
Good Bad?
Tubes look perfect round.
A Arms
HEAT THEM CHERRY RED!
Remove the original bushings that way, then if needed remove the shell.
Toss poly bushings in freezer overnight.
Take out torch again, heat up A Arm ends until cherry red,
remove the polys from freezer, they drop right in NO EFFORT (oh a tap w/hammer)
THEN
IMMEDIATLY
dump the HOT A Arm into bucket of cold water, to set everything.
Keep submerged in water for a bit.
Poly MELTS! if left untreated by cold water!
Install new lower ball joint in press.
I did this with a former friend.
So cool! SO EASY!
After all parts cool, coat everthing, including bolt, washers, in whale snot, that supplied grease.

 

I dont' have access to a torch, so that way's out. Hopefully all will go well with using the balljoint press.

Updates! Picked up the springs friday. Today (saturday) I went to the junkyard and got the correct strut mount retainers from an 87-92 f-body (I think it was an '88 Camaro; honestly didn't take much notice of the car ) for $5 total.

If everything with my buddy is cool (his fiance is in the hospital; he's giving me the scoop tomorrow), I'll be rebuilding the suspension tomorrow! I'll be taking a ton of pics, too! And there'll be the usual twenty-page-long-TomP-writeup, of course.

 

not without a press. and junkyard a arms were cheaper then replacment ball joints. also, if this sounds way off, details a bit fuzzy(was six months ago, and not my car) plus, i don't always know why my brother does much of anything

 

Hey TomP, did you tell us what brand of springs you bought?

 

Karl, here's the picture of the strut mounts, you can see the silver bearing in the top center of each one. View these as if you were looking at the engine from the front bumper...


<----- passenger side strut mount ............................... driver's side mount ----->

 

Nice Shiny Shoe Polishing job!
THANKS Tom.
That's what's in there, a rubber bushing that holds top of the strut.
Since I did not install the front struts, I am unaware of that bushing.
I'm in need of springs eventually tho.
Other day I hauled about 300 plus pounds of bathroom tiles. Rear was close to kissing top of tires in back, cursing/praying each "bump"!
Have you listed the Spring replacement part number?
Or the spring specs, coil thickness, height?
I can cross reference it to the TRW /MOOG spring chart I have.
Has the spring height settled to your liking yet?

 

(laughs) Thanks! Gotta keep 'em shiny; catches the womens' eyes!

I put the lowering springs on from Suspension Techniques; part #60115 (for 2.8/3.1 v6, 82-92). Never thought to measure the height of the new springs, or get coil thickness, though... dammit! I do have a pic somewhere of the "old vs new" spring comparison, the new springs were about an inch or so shorter, and the coils were definately thicker. By comparison, the rear springs were shorter and Thinner!

It's funny, now if I raise the car and take the wheels off, the springs look like they're too short; like they're ready to fall out. I'm hoping I don't scratch the rear with my tires... the tires stick out past the upper wheel well lip in the center of the lip; if I scratch, I"ll be tearing up the tire and the wheel lip! Ouch.

 

Summit purchase, right?
Women checking out size of a mans shoe, hummmm heard something about that once........

 

My idler arm is loose I was told when I had my car in for inspection last so I am deciding to rebuild the front end.

Tom, is there a straight up list anywhere of the parts that I will need? I searched but I got very confused...?

Thank you in advance!

 

I think it's all listed in this post isn't it? I'm also working on the front end rebuild. I just ordered my control arm bolts today.

 

so basically...

will be all that I need? I already replaced the shocks and stuts with Bilstein's...

but you had mentioned above about control arm bolts, are they required as well?

 

Is it easy to just replace ONLY the center link AND NOT disturb the alignment?

 

WWasem: no, you don't need them. I've got brand new Z28 quality control arms I'm putting on.

Karl: I would say it could affect the alignment some. Since the steering links are adjustable, I can't imagine that they would put a tight tolerance on the center link.

 

THANK YOU
that answer gives me a bit of a guide for decision.
Easy one part, replace rest later on mission or full on gotta bit bullet, don't disassemble until ready to do full job.

 

I'm doing the full-meal deal hopefully over the holidays.
new control arms with bushings/ball joints
all steering linkage (except pitman)
new tokico shocks front/back
new suspension techniques springs front/back

It's gonna ride sweet. Then I gotta do some engine work, and brake hoses + some lines. Gonna give the brake system a good flushin'.

 

Wow, this message seems like it was years ago! And I totally forgot about the web page, but I bet none of you are surprised!

Here's a crapload of more info for you!

Even more part numbers:
https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...hreadid=184552

Fixing the upper strut mount problem:
https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...hreadid=183622

Hardware for control arms:
https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...hreadid=184591

Busting the bushings outta the control arms:
https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...hreadid=186120

WW, you might want to change the center link at the same time, too. Both parts (idler arm and center link) are wear items, and I betchya if the idler arm is shot, the center link is almost shot, too.

You won't need control arm bolts or nuts if you're just replacing the steering linkage (tie rods, idler arm, center link, balljoints). But if you do a full rebuild and plan on unbolting the lower control arms, chances are that those bolts will have rusted to the metal sleeve inside the bushing- and that means even when you get the nut off, the bolt ain't gonna slide outta that hole. So you'll have to destroy the bolts like I did... But if you're just doing linkage, you're okay.

Karl, if you just do the center link, it might not move that much. There is an adjustment, but it has to do with the idler arm. When the idler arm bolts are loosened, the center link won't stay parallel. The adjustment has to do with the two "flats" on the center link, one at each far end of the bar. They must be parallel to each other.

So if you don't disturb the center link at all, you might be okay.

But like I told WWasem, they're both wear parts... might be easier to replace both now and just get one alignment, instead of paying for two alignments separately.

 

Previously posted by TomP:

** PART NUMBER UPDATE!

Picked 'em up today; guy told me that the Front LCA, front nuts (# 3983037) was replaced with the same nuts for the Front LCA/rear nuts and the Rear LCA/all nuts.

So if that got confusing:

All nuts for all LCA's: GM Part # 11516073

This was from that thread concerning LCA hardware. I ordered the 3983037 nuts for the front LCA, front bolt. Can I use these? I also ordered some extra of the 11516073 in case I decide to do the rear, so I can use these extras if I can't use 3983037.

 

I agree, am heading towards that conclusion, myself.
Bite the bullet.