OK...here's the deal. I went to AZ and got a timing light.I marked my pulley with chalk and let engine get to operating temperature.After that, I turned off engine,unplugged the EST bypass connector and hooked up timing light.My timing was WAAAYYYY!!!!!! down.I mean ON 4*!!!!!The problem is adjusting it.I saw what looked like the hold down bolt.Is'nt it on the bottom of the dist. and kinda between the dist. and firewall?I would like if anyone got a pic or drawing or something to make sure it's the right bolt.I can't get to it with a wrench or socket and I even tried a tool which supposed to get to the bolt.It's a 9/16 with a 90* bend and a 3/8 inch socket fitting.If someone can please help I don't want to give the dealership $55 to do it.It's for a 91 3.1 V6.

-Ken

 

What you are talking about is a crows foot and as far as I know you need a 1/2'' one to fit the Dist hold down bolt...but then again I have a 305...hope this helps

 

Yes, tough to get to the bolt. And yes again, going from the 4° now to the 10° BTDC spec will make a huge improvement.

As for the bolt it is a 15mm. A crows foot, or a bent 15mm box wrench will work. May be able to use a socket & swivels but I've never tried it.

I used a propane torch to bend the combo wrench for access.

RBob.

 

Ya I think the V6s are all 15mm. I found that swivels and crows/crabs feet don't work because the dist is still in the way. I use a 15mm combo wrench and come in from the left (passenger's side). Be careful not to burn yourself though. What you really need is one of those combo wrenches with a closed ratchet end. That would be ideal. Good luck.

 

Hm,
How many people here run 12 degrees? I've heard some people recommend 12 degrees. Last I checked I was running around 10. Also, what would the advantage be of 12 over 10 degrees?

-Dan

 

I'm too lazy to think of why right now, but advancing a little will give you performance (and possibly fuel efficiency) over lower emissions.

 

Hm, come to think of it. About three years ago I had a scope run on the thing, and had the dist seal replaced. Thinking about it, I had less performance since then, but I have checked the timing within the last year for another reason and it was around 10, but hm...

-Dan

 

I've heard up to 14° working for some of the guys here.

In terms of performance, you want the fuel igniting and releasing it's explosive force the instant the piston starts to slip over TDC. And since the engine is going so fast, igniting the fuel a little before TDC allows this to happen. Although I'm not really sure how the timing affects the emissions other than it does.

 

Running 12 here...

 

I run 10 degrees; tried 12 once, noticed no improvement at all, went back to 10. Some guys can't run at 10 degrees at all (engine wants to stall); they might have bad harmonic balancers (outer ring slipped and moved timing mark).

To adjust timing, I use the following combination of tools:

3/8th inch ratchet
7 inch extension
3/8th universal joint (aka "swivel" adapter)
15mm socket

Never a problem getting to the bolt.

Remember timing should be done with the engine warm, so slide on a pair of Mechanix gloves so you don't get burnt.

 

It seems like a tried a socket/universal joint combo.Did you go in from the driver or passenger side?

 

Whenever this topic comes up I always wonder if the distributor on my old 87 firebird was somehow smaller then what you guys have. I know most of you are not going to believe me, but with a 6 inch extension and a ratchet I could loosen the 15 mm bolt below and set my timing.

Seems weird, but it always worked. Sometime I should go visit the guy I sold the car to and take a picture of me turning the bolt with no universals. Maybe there was something wrong on it that I never noticed.

 

Having worked on that stupid distributor last night I can atest to the pain of getting to the hold down bolt. If you have an auto the TV cable runs over the top of the bolt too. Which of course keeps pushing off whatever wrench on are trying to put on the bolt.

So, I ended up using a piece of coat hanger with a hook on the end. Reached down from pass side and hooked the cable and held it up out of the way.

I also welded another piece onto the bent 15mm combo wrench. I had previously bent the wrench and the additional piece is a 90° shelf support bracket (about 5" by 5" by 1" wide). I welded it to the open end of the wrench to form a C shape.

Another tip is to hook the timing light to plug #4. This eliminates the running of the pickup across the engine with the attendent possibility of getting it in a moving part. And, we all know how easy plug #1 is to get at (dripping with sarcasim).

RBob., who now has a non-leaky distributor. . .

 

I use a 15mm Socket with a swivel and a extension i put the socker on the bot first then pope the swivel on and the extension on works great. I have mine set at 10 degrees it was at 14 degrees before it made a nice inprovement in power. I have run mine at 12 degress and have found that 10 degrees on my car work best. That is with a MSD 6al and MSD coil as well.

 

I can see someone getting confused reading this. Our cars don't have the vacuum advance hose that should be unplugs when doing the timing on most cars.

Matt

 

Plug # 4... why? I'm having trouble thinking right now (odd, b/c I've had a ton of coffee so far), but, if the cam turns once for every 4 turns of the crank, that'd put the #1 back at it's intake stroke... ?

Joe_L, maybe someone re-tapped the hole for the dist hold down? Isn't the hold-down bolt under the edge of the dist cap? Can't remember... brain isn't working.

It's not working well at work either; I thought I needed a "car break", but apparently that's not helping me either.

 

Never thought of that. Maybe someone was sick of timing it and retapped a bolt. Good point.

 

So true, just need to remember to disconnect the EST connector. Tan w/black stripe, around the rear of the pass side strut tower.

RBob.

 

Cam turns once for every 2 turns of the crank. So the TDC indicator on the damper is valid for both cyl 1 and cyl 4. Cylinder 4 is just easier to get to.

RBob.

 

I found the easiest way to adjust the distributor holdown bolt is using a 1/4" ratchet and 15mm socket.....works for me anyway.

 

Oh for cryin' out loud... duh. Thanks for the correction, Rbob! Now it makes sense! (Especially considering the 'ol cam gear is twice as large as the crank... not 4 times as large.. hah) Never thought of using #4, but I think I will from now on. I'm always worried my pickup wire is going to get snagged by the alternator fan!

 

Wait- so, double-checking #1's actually finished it's exhaust stroke, and is at TDC waiting for it's intake stroke to start, while #4 is at TDC for compression? Or are both at TDC for compression?

And does the same thing happen on a v8- another cylinder comes up to TDC as #1 does for the balancer's mark, or, is this just a V6 thing?

Thanks!

 

Both #1 & #4 will be at TDC at the same time. Each will be on the opposite cycle. One will be firing while the other is going from exhasuting to intaking (actually overlapping on ex/in).

Yes on the V8, lets see 1 8 4 3 6 5 7 2, can use #6. But that one is on the pass side, the reason to use #4 on the V6 (1 2 3 4 5 6).

RBob.

 

Wrap the pickup wire around the cap on the coolant overflow reservoir. Just a little trick.

 

On my 90 firebird 3.1 yep the lil ratchet and 15 mm socket ! worked very easily