While the alternator has been fine recently, this problem has killed them in as little as an hour of running time in the past.

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I am having a problem with the electric in my camaro. I don't know what to do. When you connect the battery it gives a really healthy arc even though nothing is on and the keys are still in my pocket. The guages on the dash are going all screwy now, and I have no idea how to track down this problem.

Anyone have any advice? This is killing me. I have spent over 1000 dollars repairing things on this car recently and this problem is still stopping it from being dependable. It kills the battery and I get stuck places, as well as other problems that I think are associated.
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If someone can also take a look at my cardomain site:

http://www.cardomain.com/id/symrule

They will see exactly what has been done so far. Please help me, I am so out of ideas. There are a lot of pictures of everything on that site.

 

EDITED for intelligence after reading the been-done list...

You've got a short.. somewhere.. somehow.. in some circuit.

Knowing you're fully capable of going through hell to track something down, here's the through-hell method.

First: Yank the battery, find a digital multimeter, set to 2K ohms, attach between positive and negative battery cables. Doors closed, car completely off, etc etc. SHOULD read infinite.. but thanks to the short it probably won't. If it does, hop to 20K ohms. If it still reads infinite.. well.. this idea won't work. Anything less than infinite and you've still got a short.

The primary suspects are your already replaced main battery cable and alternator cable. Why? Because a short anywhere else should blow a fuse. I would check at the starter from when you replaced it to make sure you didn't leave any wires set where they could find ground.

If it is neither of these wires, let the fun begin. The two underhood fuses gotta go (make sure to note which fuse goes where) and every fuse from under the dash (Diagram of what-goes-where good here).. check that multimeter again.. should definitely read infinite resistance now, since no circuits are hooked up. If it doesn't, go back to the main battery lead and alternator lead. Fiddle with them. Disconnect the alternator, etc etc.. keep disconnecting things till you find that short.

If pulling the fuses got rid of the short, start replacing fuses one by one, checking the multimeter each time. When the short reappears, you've got your bad circuit. Get back to us on which circuit is gone.

 

Thanks for the quick response man.

I went outside and hooked up the multi-meter but I seem to be having some issues with the thing, it kept like fading out on some settings, working fine on others, I dunno, either the battery in the meter is dead or the thing is defective or it could just be that I have never used it before.

Man, I wish I knew someone in California that could help me with these problems. It would be way worth paying another thirdgen owner over a shop because everytime I go to the shop they tend to find something to fix, but it is never the original problem I brought it in for.

I really don't know what to do. I am going to try again tomorrow when the light is better, but until then.. I don't suppose you make it out to Cali often?

(I am about 45 minutes from 'the oc'.)

haha.

 

No Cali for me.. replace the batt in that DMM and try again.

 

ok, got a new battery for the DMM. I found out why it kept dieing too. There is some audible beep it sounds when you have continuity, and that is what kept draining it down.

Now, I am not a mechanic, but I am learning, and it is very important to me to get a handle on all these things. (which is why I come here) so please allow me to ask a dumb question, to prevent trial and error later.

I got where you want me to set the dial on this thing, but there are three places you can put the red and black wires. I was wondering if you could tell me which one for this particular job. I know I must sound stupid to you guys, but I am still learning all this day by day..

Here is a scan of my DMM. Any info you could give me would probably help.

Thanks in advance!

 

Black lead goes to COM (common). Red lead goes to the Volt/Ohm/milliAmp socket on the right. The leftmost socket would only be used with your red lead if you were measuring 10Amps DC, using the 10A notch of the selector dial. You probably won't ever use that 10A setting for a car... considering the computer works in mA (milliAmps) and a car battery is WAY over 10 amps.

There should be an internal fuse that will blow if you tried to measure too much amperage on the Volt/Ohm/mA probe. But some meters aren't fused against over-measuring amperage on the 10A side. At least; that's the way it was 15 years ago for analog meters, not sure if that's changed for digital.

 

Yea.. It has a fuse and it is still good. Also, the thing quit flipping out when I replaced the battery.

Now, as per the readings, before I removed any fuses (on 2k and had it hooked up like Tom instructed) and had all the doors open still (but no battery connected) it read .002 when I close the doors it changes to 1. (which is the default reading when you just turn it on with nothing hooked up) When I have it on 20 k with the doors open the reading is .001 and with the doors closed is 1 .

I am gonna go ahead and remove the fuses and see if I see the pattern change, but that is what has happened so far.

 

Ok, I removed about half the fuses and the DMM was still reading .002

I was beginning to wonder if I was gonna notice a change at all or not when I removed a fuse, checked the DMM and it said 1.

I put the fuse back. .002

I removed the fuse. 1.

Does that mean we have found the culprit? I crossed the DMM leads earlier today and noticed that it reads .002 so a 1. would mean that there is no longer a short with that fuse removed right?

Please let me know!

Also, I have no clue what that fuse protected, so here is a picture with a nice photoshop arrow showing you which one made this change. What is it?

(BTW My Camaro is an 87)

Thanks guys! (I hope this means the problem is diagnosed!)

 

As far as the meter's fuse, I just mentioned that to say that the volt/ohm/ma probe is probably the protected one, and there's probably no protection against frying your meter if you set it to the 10 amps setting, use the 10 amp probe hole, and test something higher then 10 amps.

As to the "1" showing up- what side of the display does it show on? If it shows up on the left side, but normal readouts show on the right side of the display, then the "1" is telling you "no connection". Or, more accurately, the meter is saying "infinite resistance"- between two disconnected pieces of metal, there is infinite resistance- an absolutely huge resistance. And infinite resistance is what Tech Smurf was speaking of.

But I'm not sure from the pic what fuse that controls, because the white letters are missing.

But you don't have a taillights fuse?? That's weird.

 

I had taken out half the fuses.. I probably have one, it just was removed because I was looking for the problem.

Yes. the 1. shows up on the left, and the .002 shows up on the right.

The two letters I see clearly for the fuse that changes the reading are _CC the _ is rubbed off.

 

UPDATE:

I went ahead and put in all the old fuses minus the one that was changing the reading on the DMM, then I went to hook up the battery.. I got no arc at all when I did that.

I put the fuse in that pisses off the DMM and went to hook up the battery again, hella arc! I then removed the fuse and no arc again. Now, this to me, would signal if nothing else, that we know where the problem is. Now, what in the world is that fuse protecting?

Thanks for all the help you have already been!

Here is a (LARGE) version of my fusebox that should allow you to see the letters on it.

http://www.syneticus.com/rusty/camaro.jpg

---EDIT: I don't know what that fuse protects still, but I was able to start the car without it, and I checked things like the lights, brakes, signals, and no problems, they all work. I wonder what that fuse protects...

 

The missing letter i belive is an "A" for ACC or accessory, which i belive is for like the radio and some other items. hope this helps

 

Yea... Radio is dead now...

What is "Some other items"?

Anyone know what all ACC effects?

 

ALL TESTING IS TO BE DONE WITH DOORS CLOSED. Remember I said with "everything turned off"?? In fact, I believe I specifically stated "with doors closed, everything off, etc etc".. With doors open, you're obviously going to get arc when it tries to power up your dome light.. DUH. And of course you're going to get an ohm reading with the doors open, because it's reading through the light bulbs. All you've discovered so far according to the ohm meter is you have no short and you have at least one good light bulb in your dome/kick panels.

ACCessory fuse will affect:

Radio, courtesy lighting (dome, kick panels, map lights), and cigarette lighter.

*IF* there really is a short here, and you weren't hooking up the battery with the doors open, the short is probably the cigarette lighter itself or the wiring leading up to it. Make sure the ACC fuse is a yellow 20A fuse. If it's anything bigger, someone screwed up bigtime in a past life (or as a past owner) and was trying to find a way around this whole setup.

HOWEVER, if there is no arc with the doors closed, you're chasing a phantom problem, and moreso, the problem with your battery dying at night would be directly linked to you leaving your doors open all night.

Also, do you have a stereo system in this car? If so, is the amplifier rigged to be on constantly?....

 

Yea, I tried everything with the doors closed, but I got an infinite reading like that. heh. While it makes sense what you said, I guess I was just frustrated and wanted an answer, so I pressed for one any way I could.

With the ACC fuse removed the arc did go away though, and just that made me quite happy. As for the stereo, I have a nice head unit (pioneer) but nothing else. No amp or anything, but there used to be an amp with the previous owner, I barely removed all the wires for that a few months ago. (as shown on cardomain)Also an idiot had hooked up my head unit so I removed it.

What happened then?

I put the fuse back in and the arc went down about 98%. Only a (very) small arc happens now, and I assume that would be for the dome light and all that. The arc is almost not even noticeable.

Just the same, I will check the cigarette lighter.

Thanks for everything.

 

If everything is off and the doors are closed there should be no arc whatsoever.. check for it with the doors closed only, though.. it's futile otherwise.

Remove ACC fuse, close door, check arc, replace ACC fuse, close door, check arc. The idea is to have *EVERYTHING* off. If there's arc with the ACC fuse in and doors closed, but no arc with ACC fuse out and doors closed, the problem still resides in the ACC circuit.

If everything is off, no arc should exist at all, if it does, there's still a short or something on..

 

Is there some sort of security light on that stereo head unit? Mine does the same thing, but I won't know what turning it off will do until I get a new batt AND alternator...

Also, do you still have the wiring installed for that amp or old head unit? One of those might be grounding out on the frame or something and killing your electrics. Look EVERYWHERE for the wiring that was used on the amp. The prev owner of my Firebird ran the ground underneat the carpeting in the hatch area and under the driver's side rear seat before he grounded it...

Just a couple of suggestions from someone elde who is having this same problem...