Camy_25

:hail: What can I do to make my (6) 2.8 1989 rs faster

jon_volk

2 more cylinders :hail:

Camy_25

Thanks, that makes perfect sence

Damien00677

Well, if you don't want to go the 2 more cylinders route, there's a ton of stuff you can do...the magic "search" button knows all
Don't forget about suspension upgrades 'cuz while your car will PROBABLY never be as fast as if you just added 2 more cylinders, these cars can and do handle very well.

FbodTrek

My 6 is faster than a cammed 305. How much money do you have to work with? If you got about 500 bucks laying around and some decent mechanical skill, I'd suggest a 3.4. Sprouting 2 more cylinders in the same car will cost you quite a bit (you need a tranny, radiator, wiring harness, the motor...). Yeah, it would be nice to have a V8, but we're not all that lucky. There's a V6 owner on here in the low 15's. If you're gonna race it, you could just buy a bottle, you'll kill stock N/A v8 cars no problem. Good luck and welcome to the club....

F585

Yep two more cylinders and you're "suped" or just pm me and I'll show you some good mods if you're looking to spend alota green as I have.

Edit: I forgot to mention I have all the part #s for the good stuff.

1991tealRSt-topGuy

your 6 runs low 14's?

Project: 85 2.8 bird

hey mine could


(w/help )

F585

Yeah, but you have 200HP.

FbodTrek you're faster than a TPI 305 or TBI 305?

Doward

Hell, my stock 2.8/T5 would run with a stock 305 TBI!

The 3.1/T5 is faster than a 305 TBI

F585

And a 305 carb but, I don't know about tune ports.

AM91Camaro_RS

stock TPI 305s aren't anything too special either. 305s can be fast but most of those guys will swap a 350 in then mod it rather than modding the 305.......i did say most, not all.

FbodTrek

lol. I havn't tried running against a tpi model yet (don't know anyone that has one). I doubt my car is in the 14's . I'm waiting on a few things before I time it (first with the G-tech then at the track). I'm confident I'm in the 15's no doubt.

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

I hate statements like that…

Like any cammed 305? Like a specific cammed 305? Like a cammed 305 with no tranny or rear axle behind it? What? I've run 13.8 with a stock long block and no power adders. Are you faster then that? If you are, well willie has made runs that make that look slow. There's also a few 305's out there in there that are claiming 9's. I know of one that is running in one of the stock drag classes that is in the low 11's without power adders, "stock" heads, most of the engine and a stock lift cam…

br()bert

yeah all these STOCK motors running 13's and under,gee so if i get a 305 and add nitrous ill be in the 6's

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

He never said stock.

And I've owned one f-body and wrenched on one that ran mid/high 13's with a stock long block... basically headers back and some intake manifold tweaking. I've also worked on 2 or 3 more with with a stock long block with the exception of the cam and ran in the low 13's/high 12's.

There's nothing wrong with a 305 that someone that knows what they're doing with a wrench can't fix.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

i highly doubt you guys could beat my "cammed 305"...even with a ton of mods...without a power adder, your toast.

V6sucker

Why do you V8's come in here and troll?

A V6 CAN AND DOES beat 305 TBI's.

TomP

Okay lets not turn this into a little V6 vs V8 fight, okay? After all, I remember back when mw66Nova had a V6 in his f-body... funny, huh?

Camy, welcome to thirdgen.org! The best thing you can do- especially if you're new here and haven't heard my "speech" yet, is to get that engine tuned up as it would have come off of the factory floor. I'm betting your filters are clogged up, spark is leaking out of old greasy plug wires, timing's way off, etc. You could do all the mods you want but if your engine is in an "unknown" running condition, you'll never see the best performance from it until you give it a Major Tuneup. So here's what you need to do! After you're done, then you can look into the more in-depth mods like exhaust and cams and rear gears and weight reduction and trans and etc... and as a bonus, you'll learn a lot about your car by doing this- and another bonus, you'd Never get this kind of job by going to a mechanic- you'll do more with less money than the local garage would do/charge.

-----------------------------------------------------------
Tom P's Major Tuneup Info: 3rd gen (82-92) F-body series

Here's the Major Tuneup stuff- this covers alot more than a garage would do for you, and it'll wind up to be cheaper (or at least the same price)! First, buy a Haynes 82-92 Firebird (or 82-92 Camaro) manual.. they're about $15 from any auto parts store. I like them alot better than the Chilton's manuals (which aren't what they used to be 25 years ago). And of course, the ultimate manual is the GM Service Manual, available from http://www.helminc.com - I paid about $60 for mine back in 1994.

Replace: Distributor cap/rotor, spark plug wires (use aftermarket), spark plugs, air filter (use K&N replacements), PCV valve, fuel filter, engine oil/filter, auto trans fluid/filter (or manual trans gear lube), and rear axle gear lube (use limited slip additive if required). Check and reset the timing to stock specs (in Haynes manual). Check and reset the TV cable if you have an automagic (in Haynes manual). Do a lube job and get an alignment done- the car will go faster "easier" if the front wheels are straight. Buy a can of "Intake and Throttle Body Cleaner for Fuel Injected Engines" by Gumout (yellow or gray can, with a red cap), and follow the can's instructions to clean out your intake. DO NOT USE CARB/CHOKE CLEANER- this removes the protective coating fuel injected engines have. Put a bottle of injector cleaner or my "red magic" (STP Gas Treatment) into a full tank of good gas.

It's also a good idea to replace your coolant, check your brake fluid level and p/s fluid level, check the belts, and check your brakes while you're at it.

Call Summit Racing at 800-230-3030 for a free catalog, then you can pick and choose a spark plug wire set and get your K&N air filter(s). (You can also find this stuff through their website, at http://www.summitracing.com , but it's not as thorough as the catalog.) When you leaf thru the catalog, you WON'T SEE any parts listed for a 2.8l v6 - you need to call them and ask them for part #'s/availablility. (Same goes with exhaust, etc.) If you're like me, and can't want to wait for the catalog in the mail, call them and order one anyway! Then, go to their website, at http://www.summitracing.com , look up their ignition wires, decide on a brand, and give them a call for a part # and price.

But definately do a tuneup first... you'll see the best improvment from the "fun" parts when your car is in good running condition.

-Tom P (Hot rodded 1986 Firebird 2.8l)

br()bert

A STOCK carbbed 305 can be beat with even a 2.8 with a little mods. look at the numbers. Some of those v8's are 190 hp, weigh alot more than a v6 car and most of the time the v6 cars have better gearing.
Also drop in a 3.4 and see how many Stock v8s you cant beat.
BTW someone needs to tell the v8 trolls that chrome valve covers , alt and ait cleaner'd dont make them go faster.

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

I doubt that any of us would waste our time, but this thread was originally posted in "power adder" and we came a long with it…

As far as this crap goes, post it in another thread on this board and I'm sure none of us will bother and look at it and you guys can all live safely in your own little delusional world. If that's your style then don't read the rest of this.

Since we're already here, assuming the same driver and same state of tune, no stock V6 will beat a stock V8 3rd gen. Yea, I'm sure that I could find a driver with an L98 Iroc that I could beat in a stock v6 f-body (I've got A LOT of dragstrip experience), but even I would have to look hard for a driver that lame. The later 3.1's would come really close to some of the weaker L03's and LG4's, but wouldn't quite do it. F-bodies are heavy and the extra torque off the line will win if you know how to drive.

FWIW, I've always thought that a built up, turbocharged or blown 60* V6 in an f-body would make for a really cool car, especially for a road course freak. The 60* 6's are very light compared to an SBC and have some reasonable power potential for their small displacement (I would actually prefer this to the more common 3.8L GN swap since the 3.8 is still fairly heavy compared to the 2.8/3.1/3.4). As long as the suspension was setup for the lighter nose and you build it to hold together long term it could be a fun 400-500hp setup (and then you could claim that you'll beat most v8 cars)

br()bert

someone is tryinmg to make up for their lack of size in another department

1991tealRSt-topGuy

i must admit, when i was 16 and had a V6 camaro, i thought it was a rocket.....hell it was the only car i really drove, and it was a camaro


hey it was a camaro , it had to be a fast car right?:lala:

F585

Yeah, a 135HP light weight V6 with better gearing can't beat any heavier 305 even if it only had 10HP more. I'm not saying 305's are crap but c'mon now, do I smell jealousy? Wait till Doward starts taking out the real V8's

br()bert

EXACTLY, they have the "its a v8 its faster automaticly.I remember the first third gen i ever drove was a friends camaro with a 305 in it. Wasnt much differnce between that and my 2.8 except it was louder,couldnt rev as high and was slower off the line. and had crappy gears. It also was carbed and BONE STOCK!
When the mods start is when the 305's are way ahead of the v6's
Compare the prices of both mods for both motors compaired to the numbers gained. The v6's are gonna get eaten EASILY!
Easiest mod for a v6 car is a 3.4 swap but your still not gonna beat every v8 out there.
Also sorry if anyone gets mad but doward is at high 16's now correct? So whats a turbo worth? 2 seconds? So the car will be in the 15's? maybe?
My old car (98 mustang gt) ran 13:30 with a few mods
I think we all need to understand our places!

Camy_25

Tomp you gave me all the info I need... Your the man, I hope yo ucan help me with the rest of the prob. i have, look under fabrication, you'll find my other prob...!! thanks

Doward

WHOA! Had to jump on this one!

2 Seconds? 8 psi on the BONE STOCK 2.8 dropped me from a 17.071, to about a 14.7 (right with a known 14.7 '95 5.0 GT). That's ZERO tuning, WAAAY too much timing being pulled. Frankly, I was DAMN suprised at how well the 2.8 responded to boost!

Now I'm going from a 2.8 (135hp/160tq) to a 3.1 (140hp/180tq) with a better cam, bigger turbo, better tuned chip, and 12 psi.

Then there's the 3100 roller I'm picking up, that I'm swapping to my RWD block - now I'll be adding 12psi on a 180hp/200tq 3.1, and adding headers + reground roller cam (if I can get the roller cam/lifters to work in the RWD block )

Seriously, my car weighs in just over 2950. Think of what a 3000 lbs car can do with a solid 300 rwhp. Remind you of anything? Yeah, that's right - an LS1 C5 (non-Z06) Corvette. 3215 lbs car, with about 300 rwhp. Then factor in my V6's better gearing than even the mighty Vette, the fact that I'm STILL lighter than a Corvette, and well.. I'll just leave that as food for thought for you guys.

Btw - the C5 coupe runs a 13.1 stock... Br()bert, no offense, but you'll need more mods to catch this six.

br()bert

I was guessing, i put a ? there didnt I?
So i was off by .3 woohoo!
Never said i wanted to catch anything, if i was still into racing i wouldnt have bought a v6 thirdgen.

ALso a v8 3rd gen with all the mods you put in your v6 would stomp the crap out of you easily like it or not the v8s respond better to mods and are cheaper to mod then these v6's.

Sure its fun to mod a v6. Theirs some guy on this other site i was on with a 400 hp 3.4. Im sure he beat alot of v8 cars BUT put the same work into a v8 and you'll really see something impresive.

A lightly modded v8 is at the level or higher then your modded out the *** v6 will be. Like i said im sure someone will get their painties all tisted and they did.

Seems like alot of v6 drivers get way too offensive.
ALso dyno tells the real numbers not guessing

F585

Well, I don't want to impress anyone I just like to mod the crap outa my cars

Doward maybe you should throw all that turbo stuff in my car I'm positive my car is lighter than yours

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

i didn't think that you would remember....i guess i am more well known on this board than i thought. and i do have a v6 in my red car right now, but the 310 is waiting in the wrecked white car for the engine swap party in commerce, GA at the NSCA on May 1st. when two bad cars make one awesome car. anyhow, i am not saying that the v6's can't keep up, but only a few of you guys are actually boosted. most of you are just talk. my "cammed 305" runs consistant 13's on 87 octane. it's hard to get there without boost/nitrous in a v6. possible, but not probable.

br()bert

Why is it when a v8 owner rags on a v6 owner (both 3rd gens) the v6ers come back with "well my cars lighter" BUT when a Rlcer says the same EXACT thing they get laughed at? Ironic isnt it?

Doward

No problems there. I fully plan on extensive dyno testing.

Sure, a turbo V8 should do better than a turbo V6 (again, the weight issue)

But there's no way I'd be able to have done it, without extensive modifications, to a V8. The tighter package of the V6 makes it almost 'easy' in comparision to a V8 to turbo. There's a TON of room in front of that engine!

And I'd almost have to go twin turbo on the V8, at least with the sized turbos I'm using....

It's cheaper to turbo an existing layout, than doing a whole V8 swap then trying to turbo it...

Besides, this isn't all about speed. The TT Calloway vette will still obliterate me in the 1320. There's something, IMHO, to be said about being different. I'd give much more respect to someone that's taken a different route to get where he wants to go. We all know the V6 is woefully underpowered, so Vortex and I want to see if we can overcome that problem. And personally, I'd much rather check out a turbocharged V6 in an Fbody, than a 350 in an Fbody. I mean, those are EVERYWHERE!

But hey, it all boils down to just doing what you can, with what you've got. And if we can make a few V6's suprise a lot of V8's, it's just that much more pleasing in the long run.

Doward

Because he's still talking about his Mom's Toyota Camry!

Power to weight is the name of the game, regardless of what you run!

Doward

Why's that? I gotta re-weigh mine after I get the aluminum heads onto the 3.1... then I'm going with a fiberglass hood, and seeing where that weighs in at. Love having that 5 speed - it weighs almost nothing, lol!

F585

Amen.
So Doward are we going to see turbo kits made anytime soon?

F585

I replaced all my windows with plexiglass, I'm working on the T-Tops now, racing seats, threw out the smog pump and AC ect. lighter rockers, I also have a 5 speed and moved the battery to the rear, lighter 4th gen gas tank, ect.

br()bert

Hell yeah to everything you said.

FbodTrek

Sorry I said anything, the 305 I was refering to was just a stock 305 tbi witha bigger cam (dunno how much). He got owned, I could care less how fast someone else's 305 is. This dude's car was slow. As for the 300 hp in a 3000 pound car.....Shiat yeah! I can't wait to just get to 200 horsepower, thats my tiny little goal. The 3.4 can definately do it, without a power adder. Although.....I'd much rather have one of Doward/Vortexs' Turbos...... . Play nice people, EVERYONE GETS DIFFERENT RESULTS...

Kj Rockz

I agree, so I bought a 87 Monte Carlo SS for that.

Doward

Soon... LOL, we have NO plans of this being a half-assed kit, so EVERYTHING is getting worked out with it.

Not to mention, I'm workin 60+ hrs/wk, so I've had almost zero time to work on it. I DO have a growing stockpile of parts that I'm collecting, so that when I have everything together, I'm taking a week off from work (well, 4 days) to do everything, assemble the kit, figure out a package, see what the cost should be (the first 3-5 will be at cost, just to get the word out), not to mention dyno numbers, and track times. Patience, everyone. It'll be well worth it!

F585

I thought you didn't plan on making a kit for a sec I should start looking for a 3.1

XSVortex

iTrader: (1)

any estimate on the kit's cost? how much boost will the kit run?

Doward

Of course we're doing the kit! It'll actually be for the '86-'89 Maf based 2.8 (really, it'll work with a 3.1 or 3.4, as long as it's still MAF based)

Price? Still working that one out... seems about $2300 just to cover the cost of the kits. After the first 3-5 (depending on how many actually pony up for one) they'll prolly be around $3500.

6psi stock. The turbo will support 12-14, but that's in your hands.

AM91Camaro_RS

i had a guy at the dragstrip walk away from me when i told him what kind of times i ran with my 3.1...his 305 3rd gen was a couple of seconds slower....in the 1/8 mile. also, the torque of the v8 will beat the v6s off the line? not always, i have bone stock suspension and 235/60/15 street tires (worn out) pulling 2.08 60'. good luck with all the turbo stuff doward! i wanna hear some times!! i'm guessing 13's on 12 psi but i wanna hear it after you run it!

Z28guy83

just got a 2.8 and i cant wait to use it as boat anchor!! :lala:

Kj Rockz

oh, that sucks, mine is to new.

camaro_junkie

Doward, how can you stand the suspense? The guys on this board have been waiting a long time to hear the results and it's not even our car. You're showing a lot of restraint in not doing the boost RIGHT NOW! Good luck with it though (ya, I know you're busy).

F585

Use your 400 for an anchor remember it weights more and "no replacement for displacement" get an LS1.
Doward put me down for a kit as long as it's not over 3k

br()bert

LMFAO!! HAHAHAH Good one man!!! He doesnt have a 2.8 he just likes talking shhhh, you better watch out though , he has chrome valve covers!Besides are 2.8s are too light, they wouldnt make a good anchor. A 400 on the other hand would be a perfect one.

AM91Camaro_RS

lol...that's great.