those few people on here who do have bigger TBs, how much bigger are they than the stock one?

 

I belive Dean is the only one. It is 62mm.

 

Sorry, I was out having fun this weekend.

The stock is 52mm, my FDP is 62mm. The bad news is they are no longer in business.
There is pictures of it on my Cardomain site on a few different pages.
http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/518752/1
http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/518752/5

This weekend- bottom of page 4. If only I could get the little V6 to pull like the Vette does, but yet still handle the way it does. Note: the Camaro will turn circles on the Vette.
http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/518752/4

 

I'm woking on a LS1 tb for my V6
I have a picture of it with the IAC servo and part of it's housing retro fited on the LS1 tb.
It is a stock Ls1 TB but it will need a modified intake to fit to.
You cann't go to big because where the tb bolts on the intake the air inlet there is about as big as the tb it's self.

 

thanks for replying, i thought this thread was gonna die with no posts! anyways, my plan...go to the junkyard and get another stock tb, hone it out some. then, measure it very carefully and get the dimensions to one of my friends; he has access to a laser cutter. :lala: i can probably get a few blades cut for doing more TBs if people are interested. i was mainly wondering how much material i might be able to remove from the TB without making anything too thin.

edit: that's awesome Dean! i want to be able to get my car out on a real speedway! circle track racing is my main thing but i've never been able to get my camaro out on a real race track. how fast do you run on CA speedway? you get to run on a racetrack that the 'big dogs' of nascar run on! that's not fair.

 

I keep inviting Karl (KED85) to come on out and do a ride-along with me. He's be very busy though lately. Most of the time its open track events where you pay and drive during free track intervals at Vintage racing events such as TCRA, VARA, and HSRWest. I know many people out there and have grew up around such events since I was in diapers. It is not always open for such speeds, but when rare chances you get the right crowd of cars out there the officials will allow the rules to be bent for a few minutes, then they are flagging you back down for slowwer traffic and mostly inexperienced people out at the time. (If you zoom in closely to the official at the end of pit row- 3rd picture in sequence- you can see him signaling us to cool it down. If we are watching, or ignore him, then the pace vehicles jump right out- Play there game, and they give you plenty of fun little bursts. I was doing in excess of 150mph in the middle picture and then got off it when he flagged me at the end of pit row.

 

Forgot to add- here's a layout of the course at Calif Speedway we run on at such Vintage events. Its a 2.8 mile course that utilizes about 5/8 of the 2 mile outside oval. The circles in the picture are the different points that the pictures on the cardomain site show.

The first series through the chicane with the Camaro is circled in green.

The pic of the Camaro and Vette together is circled in purple.

The last series of the Vette down the front straight is the blue circles in sequence.

 

that's awesome! if i happen to come back out to CA anytime, i'll let you know and see if you're gonna be going to the track! that is if i'll be anywhere near that area.

 

i can probably get a few blades cut for doing more TBs if people are interested.


please keep me posted

 

ok, i got me a TB to play with. junkyards aren't cheap anymore!! i'm gonna do my best to follow through with the idea but its not going to be as cheap or simple as i had hoped.

 

well, bad news now. looks like boring a stock TB isn't the best idea. they didn't leave much meat around the bore area. i'm not giving up yet though. anyone want to throw out any ideas for finding/making a bigger one? i'm thinking about trying to make one from scratch but that won't be easy. i'm also open to any other ideas that anyone wants to throw out.

 

someone on here took the TPI intake and fused it with the mpfi intake.

I felt that might have been a bit much, but for your engine, it might be what the dr ordered

 

yea, i've seen that dale. i have a tpi TB and have considered making something to use it but it is twice as big as the stock v6 one soo....i'm afraid it'd be too much but, ya never know!?!?

 

Have you seen this before??

http://www.westcoastfiero.com/intake/intake.html


I know it is for a fiero but maybe they can do something for you.

 

Biff, that's interesting. i hadn't ever seen that before. looks like a stock upper piece and they added a little more volume to the top side of the plenum and a bigger neck with, hopefully, a bigger TB. its a nice looking setup and probably could be used on a camaro or firebird. too bad its $700 though. that's a whole lot more than i'd like to spend.

 

am91, do you have desktop dyno? The charts I had people make with my modifications seemed close. Try putting your setup on it and playing with TB airflow and see what it does.

 

no, i don't have that program. those programs are kinda fun to mess with but i don't like them all that much.

 

Click on the pics it show the two side by side and it is a much larger TB. The price does suck really bad though.

 

hmmm.....now i'm getting more ideas. i have a friend who has a TIG welder at work that he can use. making something similar to that would be cool.

 

ok, its been a little while but i thought i'd post an update. i am making a TB from scratch. its coming along...slowly but surely. its probably going to be atleast a few more weeks before its done. but, it does look like something that will be done. i am planning on making a new plenum to use with it. i'm looking for some really good top end power increses. it will probably end up being 65 or 66 mm. nice and big. i don't have any pics of it yet but i will get some after i make a little more progress on it...once it looks a little more like a TB instead of some object with a big hole in it.

 

Be cautious going too large of bore increase. If you go quite larger than what the motor can draw, what happens is the motor will stumble when the throttle is cracked open. I know Oilpan has stated he's going to try a 75mm TB- I think its a big mistake personally on a N/A motor, but he may be alright with the turbo setup.

 

yea, i know what you mean. i think 75 mm is too big too. like you said though, on the turbo setup it might be ok. if i try this one and it seems like its too big, i'll go back to the drawing boards and go another route i guess. i'm planning to try to get it flow tested once i get it done to see how much air it'll really flow.

 

Stock 52mm= 308 CFM's

FDP 62mm= 435 CFM's

LS1 75mm= ? , gotta be in the neighborhood of 700-800 CFM's.


This is why I have never bothered putting the 62 on my 2.8 motor

 

yea, i know what you mean. this one that i'm making should be rather well flowing since there is basically going to be nothing in there to restrict air flow except for the shaft and butterfly. it might end up being better suited for a boosted motor though. we'll see.

 

'nother update. i just finished (i think) honing out the bore for the tb. it measures 2.556" which converts to 64.9224mm; we'll call it 65mm. next step will be either drill for the shaft or get the butterfly cut or have the same guy that's going to cut the butterfly also laser cut the hole for the shaft. anyways, its progressing, hopefully it won't be tooo much longer until i have a nice big tb made for my car. then, i have to make a new plenum with a bigger neck to be able to take advantage of the bigger TB.

 

If you look at my cardomain site the big tb is for the turbo I'm working on.
The LS1 tb wouldn't be the greatest thing for street N/A appication. It would be kind of slow on the low end if held wide open before it could get up to speed.
I cut up my MPIF upper plenum to start fitting the LS1 tb on there, I posted pictures on my cardomain site. Also the upper plenum runners are about a 1/2'' thick and could be ported out a lot. If you dare to cut it apart.

 

yup, i've been planning to cut a plenum like you just did. i've been thinking about it for a couple of weeks now. 75mm would be a bit big for my setup. but hopefully 65mm will be nice.

 

You have to think about a few things when swaping tb.
You will need an IAC servo that will work with your computer fit the old IAC on there or figure out a way to use the new one.
You will need a TPS eather work the TPI unit on there or modify the ecu program so that it can use a different TPS.
And will it bolt up to the plenum neck, or you will have to cut it apart and go custom.

 

He showed me a couple pics - he's got those figured out

 

oil pan, don't worry, i've thought it all out. i thought it all out and tried to figure out any potential problems before i even gathered any materials to begin the project.

in answer to your question/statements...
i am going to use the stock top plate with the stock IAC.
i am going to mount a stock TPS on the new TB.
and, this TB will bolt to the stock neck on the stock intake but i am going to make a new one to take advantage of the size. but, i drilled mounting holes to line up with the stock mounting holes.

 

another update but this one is on the new plenum. i haven't done much more with the TB yet. here's a pic of the neck of another intake that i bought to cut open to make a better one.

edit: that black line that i drew is ALMOST how big the new TB will be. i don't think that i could've ported that out to match my new TB if i had wanted to.

 

I was able to get the 62mm onto the stock plenum with enough meat left. Not alot, but enough to do the job and keep things sealed.

 

not to deter you or anything...


but if you're already making a new plenum, it would seem wise to just use a diffrent throttlebody.

for example a LS1 throttlebody, or almost any other GM one. the sensor outputs are the same.. even the IAC. you just have to swap connectors some.

 

one reason that i don't want to try to port the stock neck to fit the new TB is that i'm already not running the EGR so i don't want the little part sticking out the side of the neck. i don't like the way it looks and it SLIGHTLY hurts air flow (not much, but...).

The LS1 TB is too big, its 10mm bigger than mine is going to be. it might be ok for blown motors but i think its too big for N/A. i probably could adapt something else to fit but that's not as fun. i didn't know that the sensor data is the say. but, its more fun to say, i made that intake setup, throttle body and all. :lala:

 

The TPI and LS1 TPS's resistance values are totaly different, know becasue I bough one off ebay.
They can not be swaped with only the changing of a plug.

 

the one you bought off ebay must have had a bad TPS sensor. the values match by both GM specs and having seen it done IRL...

 

Well it was new when I got it.

 

i dont really see how a TB could be to big. in fact a large TB might help drop the air velocity enough for it to make that absurd turn out of the plenum and into the runner. theres another good way to look at it.

 

Initial throttle response. If the TB bore is too large, it will cause the motor to stumble everytime the TB is initially cracked open. As long as you get in the habit of progressively opening the butterfly, you'll be fine.

 

i dont understand this...people can get 300+ hp out of a 4 cyl. but you cant out of a v6

 

This is a very tiny V6 with a very restrictive intake port angle.

 

There's normally a turbo stuffing that 4cyl to 300+ HP.

Why do you think I'm dying to get to the track?

 

doward did you take a 3.1 out of a camaro and turbocharge it if so how about some pictures

 

Thread Hijack!!!!

Sorry Alan

 

HEY! BACK OFF! lol....j/k. always glad to see pics of the turbo'd camaro.

Funstick, you want to see if you can help me out with some tuning once i get the intake done??? PLEASE!

 

anybody want a sneak peak at the new TB. i don't (obviously) have the blade in it in this pic. i have the blade that's going in it. it shouldn't be too much longer until this thing's on the car. that depends on when i get the new intake done. this TB probably won't do anything on the stock plenum...i might try it anyways...

 

so how much are these gonna sell for?

 

I don't really know about selling them... i'll see what i can do but i'll have to see if its feesable with the time involved. between working and school and whatever else, i don't have a whole lot of time. if i decide that i will sell some, i'll let you all know. but, lets get some opinions while we're on the subject...

since most people have stock or nearly stock motors, would a slightly smaller TB be more popular? maybe 60 or 62 mm.

how many people would actually be interested and actually be able to buy these if they became available?

i just want to try to get a bit of an idea.

 

I would highly recommend it be 60mm or less if you are going to sell any. The reason is that the 62mm I have is just slightly too large for the stock upper plenum to be port matched to. Hence why I oopted to build my own plenum to use this 62mm. Had it been only 60mm, I would have had it on the car running it.

More people are going to buy it if it will just bolt up to an existing part that has enough meat to mate to.

Ps- My plenum is just about finished. I am debating how to "best" bolt it onto the middle section. It really is what has plagued me and taken so long. I have two options- one is to stud it and drill holes in the top. I will have to seal the nuts onto the studs and hope that temp changes won't provoke a vacuum leak over time, or 2) I can cut the lid open about 1" inward and bolt together a sealed access cover if the first doesn't work., or 3) my (my original thought, but too hard forr me to weld) is to drill al the way through and weld in bolt tubes so the plenum is sealed even if bolts are removed from the top.

If it turns out to be option 3 which I can't do- I will then decide to take it to a professional and hve bolt sleeves drilled and inserted then welded.

 

yea, 60 or less would be workable. but, i had also thought that IF i do sell them, i could sell them with a new plenum that has a 2.5" pipe neck on it. i have already started that project but it's not as close to completion as the TB is.

dean, what about bolting your plenum to the middle using smaller, round head screws then bolting the lid on top? weld a little strip just inside the plenum for the lid to screw to with a gasket between them.