Well gentlemen I am back to the V6 board. Just picked up the 91 RS and have found that it runs but has a major valvetrain problem. It sounds like a broken spring or bent valve.

I have access to a 2.8 out of a 87 Fiero for 50 bucks and alot of work or a 3.4 for medium cash and some personal work. Is the 3.4 a swap that is feasable with my current intake and ignition system. Or should I go with the 2.8?

Will the 2.8 bolt up? Will the 3.4 bolt up? I need answers and feedback. I haven't done a 6 to 6 before. I know that sounds dumb. Iv'e just never owned one, and would like to keep the car a V6. Most of you purests will agree with me I hope.

 

go with the 3.4 you will not regret it

 

Will I have any problems with the swap? I want to keep the underhood looking stock? Will the swap look stock and use most of my stock parts? i am not looking for more HP but if a little comes because of it Iwon't be upset.

 

My old man is not happy that I bought the car anyways. I told him I was looking for a nice "daily driver". If he catches wind about performance upgrades he will go nuts.

I am trying to justify the car and want to keep it lookin stock for his eyes.

 

https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...threadid=61805

 

I'd go with the 3.4. I'm a big 2.8 fan (because the motor isn't stroked) and that'll probably hurt me in the long run but if the car already had a 3.1, might as well go to the 3.4.

6-to-6 swap isn't bad; if you want pictures of the 2.8-to-2.8 swap I did for a friend, see http://www.geocities.com/tomp_3rdgen . You'll basically be doing the same thing- pull the old motor, pull all the important stuff off it, bolt that stuff onto the new motor, and drop the new motor in.

And for gosh sakes be careful removing those plastic vacuum lines. Some may snap but you can fix them by sliding windshield washer hose (aka vacuum hose) over the break point.

 

Haha... that's awesome Kevin. Put you a 3.4 in there - unless he measures the bore/stroke, he'll never know

 

Well guys I went and looked at the 3.4. It is in a 94 firebird. The intake looks different and it says sequential fuel injection on it. Do I need the computer and wire harness to run that setup? Or is my current setup mpfi with stock computer better for my situation?

Do the 3.4's really have 160 HP? If I were to use my current setup would I lose a considerable amount of that?

 

the easiest way for your situation would be to use your current 3.1 intake and fuel injection on the 3.4. This way u don't have to worry about dealing with all the wires. As far as the performance i wouldn't know. If there were to be a difference i dont think it would exceed 5hp. Good luck with the swap

 

get the 3.4

 

get the 3.4. also, the 2.8 from a fierro has the starter on the wrong side of the block for a f-body.

 

Thanks for the info guys. I am going to pay for the engine tomorrow. I will post the new news this weekend. I am pretty excited for the swap. I just want it to go down without major holdups.

 

Im looking to put a 3.4L in my 87 RS. Now Im assuming you guys are using take out engines form 94 and up cars? has anybody used a rebuilt/new unit form a engine rebuilder/performance builder? Also do I need to use the 3.4 injectors or can use my 2.8 ones?

I just overhauled my 2.8L cuz I lost the thrust bearing. I had the tranny rebuilt and 8,000 miles later the motor went south. So I had the converter replaced, I re-ring and bearing my 2.8L, had to replace the heads cuz they cracked, and 400 miles later the thrust went out again(.0015" endplay)
Pulled the engine out and the bearing was tore up again. I had the trans and converter redone, i put bearings in the motor and put it back in.

Now the motor makes a bad knocking noise, came back after 5 mins of running. I had this knock since the thrust went out the first time. I unhooked the serp belt and disconnected the torque converter and the knock is still there. I give up with the 2.8L and want to save some money and upgrade.

 

mikey R, was the crankshaft ever replaced???? that's a lot of work done to that engine. Repeatedly.

AS far as "major" hangups go, from what I've read the 3.1 wont have to deal w/the pipe plug i the rear of the pass head, but those w/the 2.8 will.

 

Yes the crank was replaced. My heads off my 2.8 are all fresh. I also have another virgin 2.8 block I can bore and get a 3.1 or a 3.4 kit.

 

There is no 3.4 kit. 2.8/3.1 blocks were not cast with enough spare cylinder wall material to safely take them out that far. It's like trying to bore a 305 out to a 350

 

I think those kits use offset ground cranks on the rod journals. I do remember seeing the kits, I think ARI makes them ( or something). (now sits back & waits while someone else posts the website for them)

edit: got tired of waiting

http://www.engine-parts.com/GMV6/V6Marchdeals.html

 

well I found out the knock was coming from the #5 piston. Its bad man...
Now I have another virgin 2.8L block that I can bore .030" and put new pistons in it and just slap in the rods and crank out of my current 2.8L, or put in a 3.1L crank kit from ARI...or get their 3.4L shortblock with the crane compu cam 2030 for the injected application.

Any thoughts, suggestions?

 

i would either go buy a 3.1 crank to put in your block or go buy a 3.4 locally. don't buy a "2.8-3.1 stroker kit," that just makes it sound fancy. shop around and find a good deal on a reground 3.1 crank and drop it in there. and, $2k or however much ARI's 3.4 shortblock is, is not worth it. find a 3.4 at a junk yard or someplace, go through it and put the 2030 or some other cam in it...actually, the 2030 is basically the same as the stock 3.4 cam.

there's my 2 cents...

 

Is the crank the only difference between the 2.8 and 3.1? Is the block the same?

 

no the 3.1 is bigger

 

what? no, 2.8 and 3.1 blocks are the same. the only differnce is that some of the first 2.8s (i forgot exactly which years) had the small journal cranks, don't use that one. if you have the block for the large journals, the 2.8/3.1s are the same.

 

so is the rod length is the same for the 2.8/3.1? are the 2.8 and 3.1 pistons the same? same comp height? I need to order pistons anyways. My big concern is GAS MILEAGE. What kind of mileage should I expect from the 3.1 and the 2.4? I drove this car everyday, 40 miles round trip and 120 miles one way on the weekend. The 2.8 got 31 mpg. Honestly I doubt I can get a crank around here for less than $150, and buying a 3.4l from the junkyard would cost a chunk cuz out here there is a camaro/firebird junkyard called "GM sport salvage" and they are expensive.

So far the cheapest route is just redoing the 2.8L. But I want more power!!!

 

i could be wrong but there might be a difference in the pin location on the 2.8 and 3.1 motors. i think that the rods are the same length. one time i had a set of 2.8 pistons that i put with a 3.1 crank and we quickly noticed that we had wayyy too much pop-up...you wouldn't have been able to get heads on it. so, i'd make sure to order 2.8 pistons if you're using a 2.8 crank or 3.1 pistons if you're using a 3.1 crank.

the only ways that i really can think of for you to get more power that you want and get good gas mileage would be headers (small) and intake with mild P&P just to clean out the ports a little to let the motor breath. by small headers, i mean like the old hookers or hedmans that are hard to find; i say them because of the smaller primary tubes to help keep the power at a lower rpm.

 

i have a stock 1984 V6 firebird with a 183cu in 2 barrel carb.
The engine has 210, 000 miles on it which I put on in 7 years.
I had no major trouble with the car in that period. It is an automatic tranmission. Recently is has developed a "knocking noise" on the passengers side rocker arm cover. I noticed that the engine runs normal in a neutral(revs up nicely) but when i put it into drive the engine bogs down and will stall out. I checked the timing and is what 30 BTDC. Could the timing chain be worn out?
Any thoughts on what kind of transmission I would have in it?

 

scottbaer, you should start a new thread for that. this way, we can keep one subject in each thread. anyways, welcome to the boards! you could check your timing chain, it could be worn. i'd also do a compression test on it. how does the car feel when you try to get on it? does it feeler weaker than it used to? if it wants to die when you put it in gear, i'd guess that it down on power (from the little power it already had) but that could be caused by many things. oh yea, if you have a knocking noise and you're sure its from the rockers, go through and check all of them to make sure that they're adjusted properly.

 

Ok, thanks. I will start a new thread.

 

scott when you checked your timing did you remember to disconnect the distributor by-pass wire(s)? I can't remember if yours is like mine with the single tan/black stripe wire or the 4-wire connector. 30degs is alot!!! sounded like the computer was still controlling the timing. When you check the timing with a loose timing chain the timing mark will bounce all over the place.

 

NO, I didn't check the EST connector. I didn't disconnect it.
I guess that was why I was reading 30 degrees. I ended up taking off the timing chain cover and checking the timing chain.
It is pretty tight will little to no slop. the cam and crank grear may need to be changed. The teeth are not square?

 

Sorry Scott, so many people have done that. I'm not laughing at you though.

Square teeth, why would they have square teeth?

 

the teeth on the cam and crank gears according to the Haynes manual said they should be "square" or have sharp edges on them. Any blue or discolorization indicates there worn?

 

Ah, ic, well I have not read that in Haynes. I have only seen the gears themselves. Haynes isn't always accurate though.

 

This is what a 3.4 looks like in a Firebird engine bay.
I pass CA smog check only tests very easily. I actually emit less pollutants, then ever before (one reading actually was zero emissions).
That said
Yes mix & match your old original engine parts with new 3.4 long block.
Recently was mentioned that 3.1 need not worry about that fun block plug in back passenger side cylinder head (for the fan sensor).
I only accuratly know the 1985 swap set up.
I also did this same 2.8->3.4 Long Block Swap Boogie into my carb'd 1985 Blazer (federal 49 state version). Same idea, mix match old/new onto the new 3.4 long block.
Everything fits just fine.
IN THE END, all ya doing is just swapping stuff onto other engine then inserting back under ya hood. Your finished product should look exactly like what ya started with. A stock 2.8!
IF ya "know the clues" you'll never know there is a 3.4 in there.
You'll never regret the upgrade. Replace every wear (t-chain/tensioner/waterpump) part and gasket ya can.
Enjoy your mission. Many miles of smiles, too.
PS Gas milage does increase due to more torque! So does wear on tranny!

 

Karl, I just noticed- what's that huge oil neck sticking out of your valve cover from? Does it convert your oil cap to a twist-on? (I can't stand the damn push-on cap on mine!)

 

I would also like to know where it comes from. Looks like it makes filling a much easier job.

 

I would have to say that was part of the 3.4 engine I received.
Yes, does make oil insert a bit easier.
Leakage?
I have too many leaks now. A new o ring in valve cover (at base of this pipe) sure does help.