ok i have a different post on here about my shaking car, turned out to be a streatched timimng chain that had a cracked crank sproket, and a "magnitized" distributer shaft, ok costing about $780 to have fixed. Great and dandy, took 1.5 months to have fixed, fine im patient, im just glad to have my car back. Go to pick up the car, runs alot better mechanic says, one guy that owns his own shop, no other help. I take it out, sure it runs fine to get me around town, but lacks alot when trying to go on the highway, thats ok i can live with it.

He says, ok i checked all fluids, they are fine, u do need to change the oil soon, about 500-1000 miles, i can smell some gas in it. I said ok, ill change it this weekend, this being late Wed Night.

Drive it till sat after noon, loged about 125-150 miles, leave a stop light kind of quick, i hit around 3-3.5k RPMs, CLANK CLANK CLANK, i turn off imediatly, car dies, umm well this aint good i say to my friend, i pop the hood, vissual inspeaction, nothing out of the ordinary, have friend crank car
Balancer and crank pully start wobbling all over the place, ahh crap

ok get it towed back to mechanic, u snaped the crank somewhere between the balancer and ur first bank of cylenders, Y did i brake that? Well ur out of oil

Me "U said that u checked it and that it was full, so where did it go?"
Mechanic "I dont know, but i didnt do anything to have made it leak out"

Ok i saw all the parts he replaced, i checked coolent, no oil in it, didnt ever have the car smoking at all, i have NEVER had an oil consumption problem before, never even had a leak, pretty good little 2.8 for me just bad Sensors everyonce in a while and a bad ignition.

So i hear there is a seal where the dissy sits, could that have cuased all of this

*******Posted in other thread****
I did notice a small smell once, the day it broke the crank.

Ok so what if he didnt replace the seal on the back of the motor when swaping out the distributers, that would cause an oil leak when the car is running, right? So a full 30-60 PSI of pressure would push the oil up the shaft, and out of the top of the motor, and down the back over the transmission.

Would that be enough to cuase a loss of 2-3qts of oil in just 150mi? And no he did not log the milage on an invoice, but he has dates of when i got it, and when it came back, he also admited that he noticed that i hand burned a tank of gas and that i had loged what was 1-3 miles on the trip meter to 150-175.

My plan is that im goign to rally up some other mechanics and have them take a look at it and see if they can give me a better idea of where 3qts of oil went in 2-3days

i didnt notice any oil leakes, but it was out side for the last day that i had it, driving mostly, could have spilled over and out.

Oh and my oil pressure guage does not work

But i do have a properly functioning oil pressure safty, or i thought i did, or is that an idiot light back up
****************

 

look underneath, is there a huge leak anywhere? if so, where does it seem to be coming from? front, back, sides?

 

A simple visual inspection of the underside of your motor will tell you if you've been leaking a large amount of oil. It will be all over everything, and should have been cooking on your Y pipe. I've never actually seeen a crank shear due to oil starvation, but I guess it's possible. Usually you just wipe bearings and she either starts knocking really bad, or the pistons cook in the cy,inders from lack of lube.

 

well this entire set up is coated in oil, well grime, but then agian it has aobut 60k on this motor, and the way the shaft come out of the timming cover it seems like it would have to be broken.

No leaks are under the car, as far as i have noticed, then agian it has been in the shope sense the day it broken.

 

i have a leaky distributor o ring, and its never given me major problems, my guess is they screwed up somewhere and left you hanging

 

id take it somewhere else and get an opinion on what someone else thinks happened. tell them exactly what went on and see what they think. then go from there about getting reimbursement or whatever from the other guy. or if you have to take it back to him to get it fixed.

 

If you want something done right, you've GOT to do it yourself.

 

i have another guy that is recomended by a nieghbor, he is right down the street from where i work and i see a camaro or a trans am out side of it probly once a week, always a different color so i would say a different car, im going to barrow a trailar, and when i can ill take it down there to have it looked over and see if he can find a falt.

im still having trouble understanding how i would have lost 2-3qts, in just 3 days

what if it was low in the first place, and he had told me that it was full, not low on the full side but full right where it needed to be.

 

Damn, that sucks. The seal on the distributor is just an o-ring (1 inch inside diameter, 1/8th inch thickness)... I think you would've smelled more oil burning if there was that much oil sloshing upward and out.

Is the crank really broken?? That's harsh! Wow. Now are ya sure that the center bolt just didn't fall out (or snap)? Have you pulled the balancer/crank pulley away from the crank to see?

The reason I'm going this way; is you said your friend cranked the engine, and you saw the balancer & crank pulley wobbling. If you snapped the crank, then the balancer & crank pulley wouldn't have moved.

 

The only time I had a massive oil leak that was fast and quick was when the cam seal went. If I remember right...We had just shimmed the dist and adjusted the timing. I had road tested the car and everything a few times. We were performing a final timing check and cut the car off. Then I saw a puddle forming under the car. There was oil everywhere. Bad leak, I mean bad leak. Luckly, Joe & I had planned to removed the tranny so i could put in the shift kit. It was coming from the back of the engine. We thought rear main seal...nope...cam seal went. If I had been on the road went it went....oh crap! It could have lost enough oil to kill the car right then and there. And if it happened on the road there might not have been any evidence since it was so quick.

Other time...the dealre did not tighten the oil filter all the way. About the time I got home (5 miles) I saw the pressure drop. Thank *** I had installed the oil guage. We checked the oil...it was almost bare. oil all over the back of the car.

Oh...check you back bumper...is alot of oil there? When my oil filter adapter seal went I notice oil there. Not a huge oil loose at once though. Then another time had the oil pressure sending unit blow up on the dyno...car did not leak to bad though. Got it home an hours drive with hardly noticible oil level drop. Pressure was good the whole way...

 

Mechanic pulled the balancer and crank off, bolt was in fine shap, or atleast the one i saw, i treaded it back in about half way, he said not all the way, thats bad on the crank with no balancer, and i could wobble it up and down ali ttle bit, but the way the balancer was shaking it had to have been moving the crank or the balancer, i have not turned it over sense the balancer has been off, but he said he did and that there is an internal breakage, definitly something is not right in there.

I took my battery out that night to use in my other car that im trying to get going (electrical problem with back lights, very, very dim yet functional) i might take it back down and put back into my car and try and fire it up with nothing on the crank and see what happens, nolike i could brake anyting any worse :lala:
I agree, if it was truly broken then it shouldnt have spun around, but possibly with low oil i lost a rod bearing or something else.

 

If the crank is broken, it is highly unlikely that running out of oil would have caused it. If you ran out of oil the engine would have begun to run very poorly and knock real bad first, and eventually bearings would have started to seize. Check the oil yourself and see what the level is. If it did run out, check the front cover area, because he would have had to remove the front cover to replace the timing chain. If he did a bad job regasketing it will leak around there.
It sounds like this engine has had a hard life already, so chances are good that the crank had a crack in it and it just finally gave out completely.

 

I did double check the oil after he did, and it was low, just barly on the tip, i want to go and try and start it again with no balancer and see if it is as bad as it was, with the balancer off, i cant move the saft at all, before i could move the balancer/crank combo, with no sign of the bolt moving.

 

You know weve got a customer at work that use to think that. One day he decied $110 was too much to change the t-stat in his 3.4L transport (PITA). Now he has a $4k bill for a replacment engine. At least he saved that $110 by doing the job himself.



But dang a broken crank is really hard to beleive. These cranks are damn near bullet proof! The only oil consumption I can think of besides a huge leak would be minor valve damage. Its very possible that the valves did ding the pistons when the chain went. These engines arent considerd interferance outright but the the valves can hit if the chain happens to catch at the right point. This could also account for the minor power decrase after it was back up and running.

 

I think Aaron R might have the right idea... a few times around 1995 or 1996, I was so low on oil that it was barely on the stick- and nothing broke. I haven't let that happen for 8 years since, tho! But I doubt that short amount of time would've killed anything- unless the damage was already started by a pre-existing crack.

 

That car had some horrible hisitation for a while with a streatched timing chain, cracked the timing gear by skiping teeth, that was all caused by his falty ignition componts latter to find out that i had a magnitized distributer shaft

New distributer and timing chain, sure car runs smoothly, then crank snaps, wonder if that hesitation and skiped chain caused more than he could have mentioned

This is actually off of my car, i was a little scared, he never mentioned the crack, after i got it home i found it, oh and the skiped tooth is at 3oClock.

 

The crack in the sprocket looks to have been made on purpose. Easiest method to remove them is to take a cold chisel and hammer and wack the sprocket right at the key way. The sprocket splits allowing it to be pulled off by hand.

Can see some chipping at the crack which also indicates this method was used.

RBob.

 

Damn you're good!

 

oh yeah, that does look chisled

 

Of course that wack to get the sprocket off could have cracked the crank shaft. Your not supposed to wack the crank with any thing. Thats why when I did my timing chain I used a gear puller. Easy and fast with no damage. A mechanic should have one laying around the shop. So there is no excuse for not using one. It's takes the smae amount of time to go grab a hamer and chisle as it does to grab a gear puller and wrench. This is why I hate taking my car to a mechanic.

 

Regarding cracked crank.
It's a mute point about the cracked crank.
Plan now a DEFENSE TO BRING THE SHOP TO SMALL CLAIMS COURT.
PS BE SURE YOU TRY TO FILE FASTER THAN HE CAN FILE FOR CHAPTER ELEVEN!
Cracking the gear on crank.
Done that twice so far and zero problems.
I WOULD SAY THAT make sure the HAMMER WACK IS A ONE SURE HIT AS IS THE SHARPNESS OF POINT OF THE CHISEL.
Ya keep hitting crank snout more than once & yep!...
YOU FOUND YOUR CAUSE OF CRACKED CRANK!
Bring him to court right away.
File papers NOW
Find supportive evidence after papers filed.
I loaned my gear puller set to a guy who had it stolen along with his shop tools....
New Chisels way cheaper!

 

After further reading I guess the conversation has moved to this thread so I will re-post my message:

Hey guys, I've been reading posts for a while but I think this is a good time to post. I have a 90' Firebird 3.1 V6 with only 68K, and my car just started this problem today. Just as MaxxMitchell said, it shakes like a banshee on takeoff but smooths out after it gets up to speed.It does miss a bit at idle though. I just warmed it up becuase I havnt driven it in a while and took it for a drive. On the way back it started to do this. Bad Gas?, Filter?, Fuel pump? I have been thinking that its probably the fuel filter or mabey the pump. However, after reading this thread I'm now worryed about it. I am going to replace the filter tommorow. I was surprised to see that MaxxMitchell did'nt mention that he replaced the fuel filter after he said that he thought that was a posibility. This is why I do my own work, 6 trips to the mechanic and it only ends up worse in the long run. Anyway, so I will let yall know about how it works out for me. I will check the plug wires but I would thing that I would see a miss at cruise speed, and not just take off. wouldnt an ignition problem show up at all RPMs? I'll just hope its an easy fix and not an adventure like MaxxMitchell had. BTW thanks for all the great info, great site. I'll have to post a photo of my firebird.

 

Well, I replaced the fuel filter and it ran like a scalded ape. I guess that was my problem, I love it when the first try fix works. So now I gotta ask. Hey MaxxMitchell, did you replace the fuel filter on that car? Just wondering. Thanks again guys. Brad

 

IF IT's a bad plug wire, the car/engine moving could cause "problem" to stop cause wire moves away from problem area.
Lousy to say but it does happen
Easiest fix is to open hood at night & look for the lightening storm! on spark plug wires.
I had a problem wire on a wire to the coil. "COuldn't Find IT", (problem would occur/then disappear). One night......opened hood and .....
Give it a try. Make the viewing area very dark, no light for best results.

 

Deifinitly not a hesitation now, i have internal problems, IE something is messed up :lala:

Wish i could just change some stuff, but i did have a tiny hesitation before the car went into the shop, cuased by a falty MAF.

But anyways, now i got my 84 Delta 88 up and going, 305 with 3 12"L5s in the back seat

 

Never thought of that. I enjoy breaking in a new motor in the dark. You can watch the headers glow

 

I guess just doing a bottom end rebuild is out of the question? It would be less work, but less satisfaction too huh? I never really liked the idea of a bottom end rebuild, but when on a budget, and time crunch it works. But hey, couldnt you put in the crank and rods from a 3.1 and oversize pistons? I hope I'm not showing my ignorance about the 60* V6, I'm used to 350s.

 

Make the project worthwhile
GO FIND A USED LOW MILAGE RUNNING 3.4 from a 1993-1995 FBODY.
Sswap it in.
Done!
Cheaper MORE POWERFUL RESULTS IN THE END!
Yeah the night time spark plug wire trick is cool to watch
AND IF ya got problems, you'll see instantly!
Really looks just like a lightening storm going on under the hood!
THEN close hood, await daytime, check all plug wires.
You eventually see a VERY DARK SPOT on a wire due to arching.
UNLESS you have "Black" plug wires, then it's harder to spot, but you then COULD SEE a crusty white powdery burn thru plug wire, too.
Easy spots to guess is right by exhaust pipe area.
That's why they make PLUG WIRE SEPARATORS!!!! In end, ya may just get new plug wires (I LOVE ACCEL 8.8's!) and it be solved that way. And then the ride is a bit more scoot & smoother idle, too.
Hope these are simple clues.....
PS DO NOT DISCOUNT THE PLUG "BOOTS" BEING BURNT THRU!
Seek out a 3.4 engine for swapping.
Ask, about what now, close to 70 swappers or more I've coached?
I've done it twice! See below

 

IF i was to keep it a 6 shooter, yea the 3.4 would be hunted down, but sense i have another mode of transportation, for now, its going to get a carbed 350, with future plans of a forged 383


If all else fails, tranny is in good shape (500mi on rebuild) then 3.4 it is, maybe even some forged pistions for it


Then again, i do hate the FI on my 2.8, too much reliance on that broken MAF, better fuel economy and performance with mine un pluged, thats strange

 

Something is very fishy here.

1st off, where the heck does 2-3 quarts of oil go without blue exhaust smoke or a definate noticiable smoking engine bay when driving only 150miles? The oil wasn't in there in the first place?

Next, why is anyone using a chisel at all on a crankshaft? this is what presses and pullers are for.

Lastly, Why would you take it back to this guy for another future disaster?

My suggestion to you- It will cost you much less in the long run to get yourself a reliable rebuild from a reputable engine shop and install that instead of screwing with the broken motor you have. Otherwise, a few more days and a few more dollars down you'll be facing another simular problem again just like this one.

 

Actually I'll bet it went out his oil filter housing or that bolt.
IF ya don't put new O ring on that bolt during rebuild, ya got trouble!
I know.
I recently changed my filter housing gasket. Guess what, it stated leaking again, decent amount, enough to make me keep checking oil. Solved while swapping in fresh rebuilt 1990 700R4.
All had to be done was retighten bolt more and clean area with carb cleaner while engine running to check progress of leak solving mission. I think I got lucky. I did already install a new o ring, tho!
In end, all ya gotta do is examine bottom of car, YOU WILL see a trail. And shoulda been easy to wiff that large amount of oil dripping on exhaust system IF you were loosing it, rapidly. My Wife will confirm that theory!!

IF DONE RIGHT and using NEW chissel, cracking crank gears CORRECTLY is quite entertaining. Any more than one hammer hit and yep ya asking for trouble, that's correct, too.

 

Bet I know where the oil leaked. Distributer was removed to fix the "magnitized" shaft. Probably leaked out past the distributer o-ring.
Mine just recently leaked like that. It went from not leaking to a big leak instantly. I didn't even know it was leaking until I had already lost a quart. I never even smelled a leak, just happened to see it when it was up on the rack for CAT replacement. It had only been leaking for a day or two at most, because several days earlier I had it in the shop and it didn't leave a drop of oil on the floor.


how is it that 1 hit with the hammer and chisel is okay, but 2 hits will do damage? does the crankshaft count the blows and magicly weaken/break when it is struck twice?

 

Imagine pounding on an object multiple times.
Something wears down.
Harmonics can do NASTY things to a metal structure.
And, to boot, you are "striking" with "all your might".
IN END,
Either you use the best weapons (a brand new chissel at only $4-5 dollars) and one good blow or find another method of removal.
Crank timng gears do split, at correct spot (keyway only place to hit) real easy!!!

 

Aaron R.,

On an old worn engine even one hit can cuase damage. Crank shafts are not built or desinged with the idea that some lame mechanic is going to be wacking on it.

 

umm, I was being sarcastic. Personally, I doubt that a careful cracking of the gear could do damage to the crank, but I still always use pullers. Might as well use a tool that was designed for the job.

 

Im betting more on the distributer seal leaking, he convinved me that the shop didnt hit it with a chisel to get the gear off, and showed me the puller, and said that it probly broke being pulled off.

i need to get behind the distributer and see if i can find an oil trial, if so then, he will be paying another, possibly GM to drop in a new crate motor.

 

Having JUST BEEN THERE (just swapped a tranny other day!!!)
IT'S SO SIMPLE
PUT THE CAR UP IN THE AIR
LOOK UP
YOU WILL SEE THE TRAIL
I saw mine from oil filter housing area.
I saw mine from "back of engine" (two places I thought-Valve cover & the distributor seal).

GUESS WHERE IT WAS FROM?

#1 was REAR CAM COVER, AREA COVERED BY TRANNY/TORQUE CONVERTOR. Need remove tranny to see this gasket. My rear cam cover "gasket" was just a film of gasket sealant-A JOKE!!. Replace by new GM gasket now leak free back there!

#2 Oil FILTER HOUSING BOLT BEING LOOSE!
When I swapped engines, I did the housing swap, too. It's necessary.
Eventually the gasket used during swap failed &&&&....
Replaced housing gasket & also o ring on the BOLT!
I needed to retighten oil filter housing bolt, now done so & I now have a leak free driveway!!!!

Honest stick car IN AIR & follow the trail.
Ya can't miss it!
PS EASILY YOU WOULD HAVE SEEN PUDDLE UNDER CAR (I SURE DID!!) AND WILL ALSO HAVE SMELLED THE OIL, BURNING, ON EXHAUST AS YA DROVE (WIFE SURE DID!!!!).
The oil don't go nowhere without a trail. Especially IF engine leaked as you drove
Think Exxon Valdeze oil spill in Alaska.
Your car looked like that somewhere in your short travels!

 

Chances are someone forgot to add enough oil or made a mistake! Fight the shop!

 

I noticed a metion of 60k on the motor. Is it a reman?? If so the crank may well have been welded up and turned back to spec. This can cause problems in the cast iron causing the crank to break. I can tell you from experience that my 2.8 in my fiero would not turn over when the crank broke.