KED85

Happy New Year Everyone!

HI All,
Over the holdiay period I received an email from Mr. Fred Gerle at PaceSetter Exhaust.
Mr. Gerle is most interested in hearing about our response to the product they produced for us, the V6 STREET LEGAL EXHAUST SYSTEM for our FBody Rides!

How would you like to help them!
Please send a short quick response to Mr. Fred Gerle at PaceSetter Exhaust at
fgerle@pacesetterexhaust.com
MAKE SURE YOU INCLUDE A THANK YOU FOR HIS HELP FOR US!!!!!!

Ready for this part!?!?!
PaceSetter Exhaust is seeking SPECIFIC INFORMATION ABOUT
F Body 1982-1984 CARBURATED APPLICATIONS!
F Body 1990-1992 APPLICATIONS!
F Body STICK SHIFT APPLICATIONS!

Below is his email to myself.

Hi, Karl.
Happy New Year.
How is our header for this application being received? I know we had a problem with the first run, but corrected it (driver's side, oil filter clearance) on the next run. All headers in stock are the corrected ones.
As you know, we list them for 85-90. What is it about the 82-84 that would prevent these from fitting and/or working?
Fred Gerle

Let's give PACESETTER EXHAUST a big round of applause!!!!
A big HELPFUL short detailed answer to their request for technical information about the other applications, too.
PICTURES CAN HELP!

PS SOON, I THINK SOON, I CAN GET MY OWN SET OF THE PACESETTER STREET LEGAL HEADERS V6 F BODY PRODUCT HURRAH!!!!!

Below is the PaceSetter PREPRODUCTION Street Legal V6 FBody Header picture.

THANKS EVERYONE! Myself and Mr. Fred Gerle appreciate your help with this request for information.

Dale

iTrader: (12)

My email sent

Dale

iTrader: (12)

I've been chatting with Mr. Gerle since my email. He assures us that the oil filter problem is fixed. He said sales have all but stopped on these, and hes not to happy about the effort put in vs sales. We need someone to order a set and get word out that the problem is fixed. Then sales should go back up.

Can someone whos been waiting order a set to get this word out so we dont look like a bunch of lyers.

kretos

i want to get a set, just waiting to make sure it will work with my manual car.

not a big fan of buying something and having it not work

MDv6man

Well since I own an 83, I'll chime in onthe differences.

1983 passenger side manifod has A.I.R. connections, an O2 sensor bung, and no EGR.

Hope that helps

LinuxGuy

iTrader: (1)

I agree. I think people just need to know that if they order a set, that they will recieve the new design now that they are out. I think the primary reason they are not selling right now is that everyone was waiting for the new run of headers.

I would like to buy some, it would be nice to get rid of my minor exhaust leak(s) and get headers at the same time. Problem is I am broke, and it looks like it might be that way for a few months. Oh well.

I am also curious about fitment of the headers with a manual transmission since my car has a T5. I don't think I've heard of anyone with a T5 having bought these yet. Did they have to move the header's pipes back a bit with the new design to clear the oil filter better? I wonder how close things are to the clutch slave cylinder after such a change...

bru333

It is right after christmas after all. I'll have to wait for my tax refund to order a set, middle to end of February or early March somtime.

Doward

I gotta get a WB O2 first... what's the word on 5 speed clearance? And the larger oil filter?

Gumby

Whos pic is that??? your or PS???



Not very impressed by the pic. All I see are slip fit pipes with very few tack welds???

Dale

iTrader: (12)

I had a nice long response typed up then this damn pc locked up.

Anyway!
Tuesday they are shipping me some new parts for me to test onto my car. It is now equipped with t5 parts. This will be the full blown test. Oil fitment, AND t5 check.

The orginal set DID clear the t5 equipment.

So, the weekend of the 15th +/- few days, I will get a true test fitment.

Pictures to anyone who needs...I got lots of photog equipment


Then you all must order some damn headers, ALRIGHT!

Dale

iTrader: (12)

gumby, that was a picture sent to karl about 6 months ago showing progress of they had a car in, and test fitted some.

That is not what you get. Search on my user name, I posted some damn nice pictures of what you get.

Gumby

I wouldn't be showin that pic as part of this thread then.
its not gonna help sell anything.
It should be removed with the right one in its place.

drdave88

iTrader: (3)

yes they do fit a manual. i had no problems bolting mine up.

coolrimsatleast

I'm pretty sure, but just want to clarify something. There's no Y-pipe included correct? On summit, it's listed as not including the Y-pipe, but every pic I see has that included. I just tried searching for a newer pic, but can't find anything.

I'm about to order a set finally. Still waiting to hear about a job, but exhaust leak is getting slowly worse, so I want them on hand for when I replace the gaskets or the whole engine.

2_point8_boy

Hey, those pics don't look like they have the bungs for Air Injection in the diver side...please correct me if I'm wrong.

Gumby

Yep, those are headers. thus no emission crap.

2_point8_boy

If that were true, then no headers would be legal in California...

They have an EGR mount...

I'm a Smog Tech here in California and have seen plenty of headers with AIR bungs.

If they don't have the AIR holes, then they are NOT LEGAL for ANY f-body in California with air injection (manual trannys mostly), even if the E.O. number says they are ok for that model year the car would fail for missing AIR injection and Modified "Other Emissions Equipment."

LinuxGuy

iTrader: (1)

Dale:
Oh, shoot, that's right, I remember you doing the T5 swap now, I wasn't sure though since it says "700R4" for "Transmission:" under you name in posts. Thanks for letting me know the headers clear! I would love to see bunches of pictures when you've got the new headers on, especially in the oil filter (with PF52) and slave cylinder areas.

drdave88:
Thanks for confirming!

Gumby:
Well, Karl did note that "Below is the PaceSetter PREPRODUCTION Street Legal V6 FBody Header picture," but a up-to-date picture of the actual headers would be better than one of the prototype.

coolrimsatleast:
There is a Y-pipe included that bolts right up to the cat in the stock location. Summit simply placed incorrect info on their site, so far as I know, those that have ordered from Summit thus far have recieved a Y-pipe.

2_point8_boy:
The headers do not have connections for AIR, neither the 2.8L or 3.1L style.

2_point8_boy

Thanks for the confirmation.

NOTICE to ALL Manual Tranny Guys in Cali...NOT LEGAL.

Even though they are covered by E.O. #439-6, they DO NOT allow the removal of the AIR Injection system at this point, so any tech that sees them, will fail the vehicle for missing the AIR system. Maybe we can get tehn to put a few bungs in there for the manual trans.

BitchinRS

Another point about about the air fittings is that it may work on some cars. I have a '92 3.1 with a T5 and the air goes to the cat not the manifold. One could also go to the scrap yard find a Camaro or Firebird that has the air going to the cat and buy the lines. They bolt up to the AIR pump the same. Since it will look and is a factory setup no one will question it.

Also the number one concern that has kept me from buying a set is the CARB# it's self. If you look at the CARB doc it does not cover the '90 - '92 3.1 . Several months back I sent Fred an email regarding this, and asked if these engines would be covered. I have never received a response from him, not a good way to sell your product.

The last thing I want to do is buy a set, and have the smog tech check the number and tell me I have to remove them. They have gotten dam strick in my area of CA and will check every last number.

2_point8_boy

Welcome to the world of Test-only my friend.

Trust me, any shop will be able to tell if the vehicle came equipped with an upstream or downstream system, it's in the ECS books that we are required to have at the shop, and the vacuum controls are different on an upstream/dump; upstream/downstream/dump; and downstream/dump systems. the solenoids, wiring and plumbing are all different. If they look at the ecs label under the hood, they'll be able to tell. But, sometimes you get lucky and find a guy that doesn't know squat, on those guys, you can pass, but you're lucky that he's stupid.

crazycamaro83

yeah guys for sure about the guys that dont know anything when they are checking your car. down here in texas my 83 2.8L only has pipe then cherry bomb and then pipe and it still passes anywhere else they would of killed me. but its all good i cant wait for these new headers to work out for all of us. slowly we are getting faster!! take it easy guys

Doward

Man, I just gotta know... as long as you pass the sniff test, why the hell does it matter visually???

Not directed at you, just wondering if you have any idea of the (stupid) thinking behind that...

planman

I was prepared to buy the headers but delayed when the oil filter issue was discovered. I think the biggest problem is that no one knew the issue was resolved.

Dale

iTrader: (12)

Dave, do you have the revised set?

KED85

Hey everyone
Let's HELP everyone!
Yes the STREET LEGAL HEADER picture shown is a PREPRODUCTION PICTURE!
I HAVE NOT been supplied with a current production picture, so I have NONE to offer.
IF someone who has a set would take a pic for posting, please PUT IT IN this response!
Next
I haven't been around for quite a bit lately.
Life is too busy for me right now. I'm ready to doa cross country move, too and a parent almost passed away. Luckily life dealt me a chance to still have my Dad.
I posted TO HELP ALL WHO ALWAYS WANTED TO BUY STREET LEGAL HEADERS.
Next
HELP FRED GERLE
Send ALL YOUR TECH KNOWLEDGE INFORMATION TO
fgerle@pacesetterexhaust.com
Sure say it here, too, but Mr. Gerel needs your help, too!
Want the OPPORTUNITY for a Manufacturer who made this product for us, to go away?
Know any other manufacturer who sill step in?

Myself, I can't wait to buy this product!
IF YA RECALL WHEN I POSTED THAT THIS STREET LEAGL HEADER PRODUCT CAN & WOULD BE MADE, I ASKED ANYONE TO OFFER AS MUCH KNOWLEDGE of their specific ride/applications, to help broaden the market for this product.
GET YOUR OPINION/KNOWLEDGE TO THE SOURCE THAT CAN MAKE THE PRODUCT FOR YOU!
THE NATION IS GOING SMOG LEGAL and yes a few areas do not require it, but the MAJORITY of the USA does.
HELP KEEP THIS PRODUCT ALIVE

Again
SEND ALL HELPFUL COMMENTS TO
fgerle@pacesetterexhaust.com
SEND ALL YOUR CONCERNS about this product to
fgerle@pacesetterexhaust.com

Thanks to all who have helped!
Myself again I can't wait to buy this product.
Where I am moving too, currently does not have smog testing. I understand, tho it will be required shortly.
Since I'm still in a smog testing place, I am most thankful that the product does have that "tag".
Help everyone, give Mr. Gerle our inside knowledge.
THANKS

PS Don't expect Summit to reprint a catalog just to include a "Y" pipe picture.
DO REQUEST that Summit be INFORMED BY THE MANUFACTURER ABOUT THE PRODUCT AND ALL IT'S PARTS!!!! AND IF YA SPOKE TO SUMMIT & THE SALE REP WAS NOT FULLY INFORMED, GET THE GUYS NAME & FORWARD THAT INFORMATION TO MR. GERLE SO HE CAN HELP CORRECT SOMEONES LACK OF KNOWLEDGE AND MAKE A SALE FOR PACCESETTER!!!!!!!!

CAPITALISM IS WONDERFUL ONLY IF YA MAKE A BUCK!
IF YA LOOSE A SALE well...

IF ya visit other 3rd gen F body websites, pass the word around!
As I do whenever anyone askes me about how to stick in a better motor 3.4, I'm happy to share the knowledge.
Help this manufacturer keep this product in production.
A.I.R. tubes on one car application of this product, seem to be able to be useful for the person who also has a stick F Body.
Let the manufacturer know about that. Help Mr. Fred Gerle and PaceSetter Exhaust to help all of us!
fgerle@pacesetterexhaust.com is the man to help all of us!
BE SURE TO THANK HIM, too!!!

2_point8_boy

You know what man, I just don't know. For some of the stuff, it matters because it's used to help with cold start emissions and other things, but there are somethings that I just don't agree with. For instance, we had a '77 ford pickup come in that was originally equipped with single exhaust and an Oxidizing catalyst. When it was in our shop, it was converted to duals with 2 Three-way cats. The state says it's illegal even though it help the emissions more with the dual setup.

I didn't say that I agreed with all the rules, I just said that unfortunatly, we have to play by them.

I just thought that I'de put that info out there to prevent someone here in cali with a stick from buying them, installing them, and then failing because of them. The whole E.O. number thing is complicated and not much is known about it by the general public except that it's a pain in the ***.

KED85

I'll offer my knowledgable response to the Ford truck issue.
THE OWNER SHOULD HAVE INVESTIGATED THE RULES BETTER before he spent money unwisely.
UNLESS he did an engine swap/upgrade and that engine under that Ford truck included from Detroit the said exhaust setup.....
This smog test example given is why I did the 2.8-3.4 swap boogie.
I had to NOT DEAL WITH any smog changes and I pass easily the smog tests.

BUT everyone, please lets not make this thread a bitch about this smog & that smog deal.
Oh well.
There are those smog issue rules out there and you as the car owner, it is your responsibility, to know how to deal with each "variation" you attempt to put under your hood.

Recall the guy who tried to make us those V6 headers and then "tried to get them smog legal".

Guess what?

We now have smog legal headers and we now have a manufacturer who is seeking solid input for help and knowledge to broaden to marketplace sales for his company.
What a concept......
Don't turn this into a bitch thread. Please don't.

Mr. Gerle and PaceSetter is asking how they can make this a product BETTER so they can be sold to you and your specific application. Help them.

And Gumby, I have asked for a more current picture so I can offer it to all of us. Your point is very valid, my usage of the PREPRODUCTION PICTURE. Yet, it's all I can currently offer.
Send a quick email to Mr. Gerle asking him for a current product pic, too!
I did.
fgerle@pacesetterexhaust.com is the way to reach him to help all of us here in the underdog world of the non-respected 3rd Gen F Body 2.8-3.1 world!

TomP

Actually I forgot about ordering a set- oops. I just sent an e-mail asking Fred Gerle about how we can be sure that we receive the updated set from Summit, asking that they send Summit a picture of the headers/pipes/hardware, and asking that they give Summit the EO #.

coolrimsatleast

Well I just bought mine from summit. I think it said it won't ship until beginning of Feb, so maybe there's always the chance I'll have a 3.4 by the time they get here.

I start drooling thinking about going from a stock 2.8 with stock manifold and ypipe to a 3.4 with a few mods I have planned, headers, and a better ypipe.

KED85

Is Summit the only mail order house that sells this product?

TomP

Even though I hated it, I went to Jegs' website and they don't list Pacesetter as a manufacturer. JC Whitney carries Pacesetter so I bet it could be ordered from there.

bru333

Performance Center has them on their web site. More expensive than Summit.

http://performancecenter.com/product...AMARO&sf4=2.8l

kal

They have a better desciption and picture then summit. Says they produce 7-9 hp and 8 ft lbs of torque in case anyone was interested

bru333

That isn't the right photo. It's just a generic headers photo they are using.

Matthewy8

i have bought the headers and they fit perfectly i have a 92 3.1l manual firebird. and they sound awesome. ;-)

drdave88

iTrader: (3)

no i dont have the revised set. i ordered mine shortly after you ordered yours dale. i have switched back to the short filter, not a big deal i guess.

LinuxGuy

iTrader: (1)

kal: Thanks for posting that picture, but like bru333 said, I also believe it is the wrong one. The end of the driver's side manifold is supposed to curve forward a bit, and the passenger side doesn't curve like that. The Y-pipe is all wrong too, so I think we can safely say that is a generic picture. Thanks for trying though!


Here is a picture of the headers before Dale but them on his car. Taken from: http://dalej1999.tripod.com/headers/id9.html where you can see the rest of his V6 headers pictures. (Also note that I cropped the top and bottom off the picture and sharpened it up a bit.)

coolrimsatleast

Well poo......I found out today I'm going to Iraq again, so I won't be able to put them on anytime soon and give feedback. They'll be waiting for me upon my return, and I'll have lots of money saved up so I'll just get a 3.4, do some minor mods to it, and stuff it all in.

Gumby

PC should give the board owners some free headers n get a banner add stuck on this site???

Also, I guess it don't mater but why did they put the O2 sensor onthe inside of the headers???


Stock it out side, so you can easily change it on the ground with just a socket wrench.

KED85

I've tried to contact the gods of ThirdGen.org to help with advertising their product.
BUT
There is a virus between me & IROCTwentygreat & we cannot converse!
Getting free products & the associated publicity these days entails you owning PrimeMedia (parent company of Hot Rod, Super Chevy, Car Craft, Popular Hot Rodding, Vette, Corvette Fever to name just a few!).
You'd think I was the one getting the free set, but honest, that offer never came my way nor will/would I ask.
I endorse capitalism and hope by my few pennies toward PaceSetter (SOON) will allow them to continue offering this product to all members who seek to purchase.
The more POSITIVE COMMENTS offered toward PaceSetter will allow/show them the encouragment to broaden the base of the current product for almost every 3rd Gen V6 application/variation.

Keep sending ALL positive/constructive/technical feedback to:
fgerle@pacesetterexhaust.com

EVEN IF YA GOTTA A BEEF about the product, help Mr. Fred Gerle know what is the specific beef.
Mr. Gerle has made himself available to help ALL OF US with specific complaints and seeks all technical feedback and desires to help all seeking to purchase this product.
AND ALWAYS send a note of THANKS, too.

Thus said, know any other manufacturer stepping up to make this product for us, lately?
AND the tech rep offering his personal email address to answer any questions from potential purchasers?
That's mighty fine customer service, these days!

RTFC

They're worried here is that the car is in open loop on warmup. The visual insures that the proper smog devices are in place to assit a faster warmup so the car goes into closed loop and not run rich.

We even are forced to use "Winter Fuel" from Oct to about March. All gasoilne sold here in those months contain more ethynol and is oxygenated so that the warmup time is decreased in the "colder" months here. It tough to warm up a car outside when it only gets to a chilling 50*F.

Then what the ******* politicians don't tell the public is that it now takes more fuel to drive the same distance. Gas milage goes down with oxygenation because you have to burn more of it to produce the same power. The average car out here is getting 2-3miles less MPG in the winter months because of it. The politicians get a fat kickback payment under the table though from the fuel suppliers. And everyone keeps voting for these &$#@$^!

Gumby

50f is not cold????

RTFC

["It tough to warm up a car outside when it only gets to a chilling 50*F.'] It was sarcasism- hence the word "only"

Naft

The problem is that politicians know nothing about cars in specific, they base all their decisions on what evironmental wackos, oil companies, and so on tell them. And now that we are in this deep, if they eliminated all the extra **** then that sector of the economy would plummet, because they keep buying expensive equipment so they can perform the tests. when all of hte sudden no one needs to get smogged, bye-bye thousands of smog shop businesses.

Ironically, one factory or powerplant or whatever produces thousands of times the emissions per year of even the worst car, and their emissions requirements could be much more stringent.

The only way to get rid of a law is consistent widespread disobedience, to the point where only a small percentage of the population is following the law. Law enforcement agencies see how retarded the law is, and dont bother enforcing, etc, and eventually it just isnt enforced, or gets repealed. So maybe in like 50 years there wont be visual smog checks in cali.

of course, that will only be because we'll all be running on hydrogen or nuclear fusion or some crazy ****.
*Note: disregard the above statements, I'm just bitter*


I'll get some of these soon anyway, cause i am taking the route of f visual smog, and as long as i can make them work with doward's turbo kit, ill get some for sure.

Dale

iTrader: (12)

Yep, that pic is from my site. Thanks for not linking directly to the picture, I would get my site shut down.

As for the 02 sensor on the inside, rather then outside. I see no problems with it. I am wondering if it was facing outside if it would hit my subframes? Also, you would get tire debris being flung up on it as I know my tire sprays water on the pipe in that location.

Gumby, since you seem to be the only one bashing this whole project from day one, why not just leave it alone? Were not forcing you to buy them.


Matthewy8, thanks for posting info. We do have someone who has a new set, with manual tranny, and they fit!

Dave, thats what I did on my car for now. short filter. I knew you ordered right after me, but wasnt sure if you sent them back for exhange or not.

Gumby

You assume to little. I am just asking questions. If tire debris n sub frame clearance is no problem on the stocker, why would it matter here??? Just askin.

drdave88

iTrader: (3)

no i didnt send them back. ill just run the shorter filter. i change it often enough, its not a big deal to me.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

you guys realize that your actually getting me wanting to do another v6 car! it would be a fun little daily driver with my current car being the weekend warrior. 3.4l swap with these headers, ported/polished headers/intake, cam, roller rockers, t-5 with 3.73's. man, that would be pretty fun! too bad i got no money for another car.

Doward

That's just it though - as long as you pass the cold idle portion of the sniff test, why the hell does it matter WHAT is under the hood? A superbly tuned motor with no smog devices will actually end up with LESS emissions - simply because it's much more effecient!

Now, if it does not pass the sniff test, then you got more tuning to do - and until you get it running right, and not belching oil/gas/coolant out the tailpipe, then you don't pass the test.