Rexer

just finished fitting new poly mounts , torque arm, secondary isolators, trans mount. my *** what a difference that has made to my car, but i think it still needs something else. my car still has this anoying problem, when you come on or off the gas the car seems to rebound , i dont know exactly how to desribe it but here goes,
i pull away in 1st and its a bit wobbly sort of back and forth, in to 2nd and its better but if i come of the gas it does a simular thing sort of back and forth rocking type thing, backlash???
if you floor it its fine because the engine is sort of holding it in one direction but if i come of the gas its wobble wobble. could this be the rear lca's? im gona change the engine mounts as i like the wuality of the es products iv just fitted so im gona go with these, i should probably put this in a different section so if you feel it needs moving im sure a mod will move it.
Thanks
Nick

Gumby

Do you have the weight installed on the trans???

Big gaint hunk of metal / weight that hangs off the tail shaft of the trans???

Not the torque arm.

Rexer

not sure i follow you there bud, do you mean a balance weight?

Gumby

Yea that big hunk of metal that hang off the bottom of the tail shaft of the trans and it point in the opposite direction. Or points towards the rear of the car.

Rexer

i know you said not the torque arm but thats the only hunk of metal i can think of. i didnt take anything off and leave it off
try saving this pic and zooming in on the bit you said about.

Gumby

Your weight is missing.

People think its gonna help go faster by taking it off but its there for a reason. It is heavy as bleep though.

The red line is the bottom of the torque arm, it hangs below it. Big hunk of metal / 7-8 thick metal plates riveted together.

Hard to get a shot of it on the ground.
But it bolts to the bottom end of the trans pointing backwards.

Gumby

Help to see it with my bright green paint job. I was just gonna clean up the drive line parts and paint them with 99cent spray can blue. But some smart butt commented that its a waste as no one is gonna see it.

So I got some $5 a can bright green engine paint.

Rexer

gumby, what does this weight do then ? and where can i get one, do you think this is why my car rocks back and forth under load/unload ?

Gumby

If you look close at your pic.
You can see the two mounting holes on your trans.

right after the cross member. Two shiny spots or lumps.

Gumby

Hit Ebay or junk yards, and yea you need it.
its there just to do that.
Keep the trans from jumping around during load.

Rexer

i see, but now i have fitted all those new poly bushes the trans is rock solid but it feels like my rear wheels/axle are moving forward and back in the arches i can see this weight will stop all these people breaking standard mounts in 5 mins after fitting new ones, but now the trans is solid do you think this is still the problem. thanks for all this help by the way.
Nick

Gumby

Yea you still need it. New fancy mounts don't help that.

it why that thing weight 90lbs. as under load, with gearing, you gots tons torque force making that tail shaft rise and fall.

TomP

(laughs) No offense meant, but this is silly. Forget about that weight. That damper was for 4 cylinder F-bodies. If the V8 doesn't need a damper to keep the trans from jumping around, why would we??

And think about it- if your car should've had this fancy weight- why isn't it there?

You're fine with the poly trans mount and torque arm mount. Your trans isn't gonna jump. I'd love to know how the trans tailshaft would rise and fall with a poly trans mount bolted to a crossmember that's bolted to the frame! Answer: It won't, and if it does, you forgot to install the bolts!

MY car doesn't have one, and I don't have that rocking sensation you're feeling.

You think the wheels are rocking front/back, not side to side? I'd say you should push on the back of the car to see if anything's loose back there. Maybe you blew out an upper shock mount, or maybe your shocks are just shot!

AM91Camaro_RS

yeah, i don't have that weight on my car either. the 700r4 that we put in my dad's s-10 (behind a small block) had that weight when we pulled it out of an astro van but, guess what!?!? we pulled it off. the truck is as smooth as can be...while driving normal, towing, or racing.

Gumby

hello, me and him have T5 stick and all 3rd gen T5 stick have that weight stock / factory.

auto tranny is different of course

Auto tranny weight more and isn't affected by it as much. that thing dampens the feeling he is getting. So the tranny sort of floats in it torque zone instead of jerks. Where the heavier auto tranny doesn't need it.

Gumby

People think the weight doesn't do anything but weight 900lbs. So they remove it thinking they are gonna go faster.
Then wonder why it feels jerky.


3-4 times a month someone ask if removing it will help them go faster.

TomP

Oh, really? Well, according to my GM Service Manual for 1986 Firebird (your car and mine), page 3D-7, it shows the torque arm attachment for the 4speed and 5speed manual trannies.

And it points to the weight, calling it "Damper assembly (4 cylinder engine)".

But hey, I guess the GM service manual could be wrong. I should check my Haynes.

Oh, look. Haynes 82-92 Firebird manual, page 271, figure 11.7. "Damper asssembly (L4-equipped vehicles)."

No matter what tranny he has, it's not going to budge if he's got the poly torque arm mount.

But hey, what do I know?

Gumby

Hmm then why did my car have one and the new tranny I bought form another V6 Firebird come with one???

Someone bolting these things on after dark when no one is looking???

I would not put 100% faith on any manual. Ask a T5 owner.

Gumby

Id bet money that if you go to a decent junk yard that pulls good parts and shelfs them over 75% of all V6 T5 they have will have that weight. People do take them off thinking it saves weight.

Ill go to one and take pics for ya.

Everyone one I have seen, has that weight.
I don't check out 4 cyl cars at junk yards.

RTFC

Disregard what anyone is saying about a damper weight, Thats not your trouble. You hav e stated in your first paragragh that it isn't a vibration- come on Gumby, read what he described.

I would point you into the clutch and pressureplate assembly. I think personaaly you have a very worn or out of adjustment pressureplate. Heck, what you are discribing, You may even have loose bolts between the btrans and bellhousing, or even the belhousing and motor.. It the trans mount is new, the something very wrong ois causong that for and aft slop. maybe even go as far forward as broken motor mounts.

camaro350man

Maybe theres a difference between the WC t-5 and the regular t-5?

Rexer

thanks for all the help guys,
tom (hi mate) you said my shocks could be shot. right i know from reading my rpo codes that i have the soft ride package and the car sort of rides like a boat (uk term maybe) reminds me of my 78 caprice i had. i did notice that when i stomp on the gas that the front lifts way up in the air and the rear drops like a lead weight, what im saying is i wouldnt know if the shocks where dead as there isnt many of these cars about where i live so have nothing to compare it to(exept my friends 84 vette). all i know is its soft as ****. was gona do something about that next.
fitting the poly bushes has helped alot but i still have this problem, it seems to be coming from the rear as i imagine if it was all down to motor mounts then i would see some side to side movement on the gear stick, in the same way i noticed up and down movement when the trans mount was broke.
i will be changing the motor mounts anyway. could i be simply looking at rear shocks or lca bushes?

again thanks for getting involved fellas
Nick

Project: 85 2.8 bird

one of the better ways to test shocksis to see how much the car rolls forward when you hit the brakes.

Also, off topic but I need a favor, Rexer, can you get some closer pics of that tranny support??? I might actually be able to use one of those instead of modifying my A4 one for my tranny mount..

Thanks,

Rexer

yeah mate , what do you want a pic of, the old one in the pic or the new one with the isolators? if its the old one i will take a pic tomorrow as its laying in the garage floor, if its the new one you will have to wait till i can jack it up again.
what would be a better shock than standard soft ride?
what about springs for our v6's

Rexer

Rexer

Project: 85 2.8 bird

holy tripplepost batman!!!!

here's what I'm dealing w/the 98 tranny:

http://www.thenebula.com/carpics/pics4/DSC00729.JPG

it looks like teh t5 support (if it uses the same mounting points as the auto) will go back far enough to work.


edit: of course if I hav to, I'll just drill my support to fit the 2 rear bolts.

drdave88

iTrader: (3)

my manual doesnt have this weight on it either. i havent ever even heard of a weight like that on these cars.

Doward

My manual T5 had this weight. I removed it. I, too, had that 'rocking' feeling when shifting.

How did I fix that?

Installed new Dropzone Springs + Shocks. That's your problem.


It's called weight transfer, as you shift, ladies and gents

drdave88

iTrader: (3)

i guess i never really noticed that feeling and mine never had that.... as long as ive owned it anyway. i have Dropzones on mine too so maybe thats why i dont notice it anymore. i dont remember feeling that when i bought it though. hmmmmmm

Doward

Believe me, I do... It used to drop, then lift in the front, as I slammed through the gears

bdiamond

That large weight is to keep vibrations out of the shifter ****. In later years they used an aluminum driveshaft to do the same thing. I ditched my weight and found an aluminum driveshaft and have never had any of the problems you are refering too. Plus it may have been mental, but the car felt way more responsive afterwords.

KED85

That last post is 100% correct on what is that items name.
It's a counter harmonic balance weight to control (Noise, Harmonics, Vibration - NHV) vibrations into the shifter, be the shifter in action (shifting) or no use (crusing).
FIRST USAGE was the Vega.
I know I had one on my new 1975 4-speed Vega. And no, that car was not exactly slow. I had a GM error/mistake of that car. It was a good Vega, a very good Vega.
I have no doubt that GM MAY have included that item on stick shift cars. Yet, as stated, not on my auto tranny ride.

NOW your ride being overseas, I SERIOUSLY DO NOT DOUBT to start looking for FRAME RUST SOMEWHERE!

YOUR ANSWER (though you may not like it) COULD BE CASUED by dreaded rust creeping somewhere, where it COULD be the cause for that "feeling" AND SINCE you "isolated/made stationary" parts of your drivetrain, the "sensation of this up/down motion" could now be magnified or "damage" now accelerated.
Yeah it most certainly could be rear suspension "barely holding on" to the "rusted rear subframe".
You guys over there have SERIOUS rust problems, which is why so many old rides (Morgans, MG-TCs, Rolls/Bentlys, Jaguars (maybe)) built upon ash wood frames.

Solution, Find a Bently Turbo R for your daily ride!

theratdude64

heres a pic of my big metal thingy that hangs off the back. I swear that when I did the transmission on a 90 305 Formula that it didnt have one, did I just forget about it or do they not have one?

LinuxGuy

iTrader: (1)

My '87 Camaro w/ 2.8L and NWC T5 has the weight.
My '89 Camaro w/ 2.8L and WC T5 does not have the weight.

Rexer

i know what you mean about the rust problem over here, but lucky for me my car has NONE !!! apart from some really minor scabbing on the wheel arch return lips, im thinking its a combination of rubbers on the rear end, its a simular feeling as if your prop/drive shaft joint was badly worn, but its not making any banging noises and i think i have already checked the shaft.

got more issues now though, just fitted new discs and pads cos the inside ones went down to the rivets and now my drivers side caliper is sticking so i need a new one. i have had a look at all the rubbers on my rear end and they all seem ok but i will get it up in the air and have a better look.
il keep you posted
Nick (UK)

KED85

Caliper could be only a fresh rebuild of the sliding assembly.
My Firebird recently did that, too.
My S-10 Blazer always did that trick (sticking caliper).
Vauxhall COULD be a source for those caliper parts (isn't that GM Britian).

Rexer

good call ked85, i will look in to that in the morning thanks man, i know i can get some parts from vauxhall if i get the right person on the counter and not some moron who knows nothing.
Nick

KED85

If my guess is correct
you seek an eighties style rear wheel drive vehicle.
Brake stuff consists of rubber o rings & such.
I "recently" did this (the o-rings & such) to my F Body AND AFTER ALL THAT, is when the caliper stuck sideways and......
I am now searching for new PINS (I believe two necessary).

I only recalled the Vauxhall/GM connection, but no specific cars I can "say" match the F Body/S-10 Blazer front brakes. I'd say a mid sized RWD ride is best "choice" or again small utility truck line.
In the end, the F Body/S-Series caliper rides on a sliding/floating assembly for effective brakes.