Ok I don't know whats the issue here but I'm not happy about what happened earlier tonite.

Me and some friends were out just cruising around and im going into this curve doing about 40 and all of a sudden my car starts to slide, and eventually I smack the curb. 1 Busted rim, 1 flat tire. The other rim has some scratches and fear its warped. Weird part was the busted rim, that tire was fine. The one with scratches, that tire was blown.

But the hard part for me to understand is my friend was up ahead and he has a 1988 Crown Vic, basically a boat. And I think he was doin 45-50 and he held that curve like it was nothing. Wth made my car slide like that? My tires werent spinning upon them selves, just I went for the turn and it started sliding.

Just wondering if something is up with my suspension that would make my car do that. I also wonder how much 2 new 84 camaro style rims are gonna run me...

Argh, I've had a bad night

 

How old were your tires and how old were his tires? Age of the tires has a lot to do with it as can be seen by my car.

 

His seemed balder than mine, although mine were gettin on in life.

I'm starting to wonder if I hit some sort of rogue patch of gravel and just started sliding like that. Either way I'm so depressed about this, now I need 2 new rims, but to look better might be stuck goin with all 4

 

thunder and myself were out just a wile ago and we were messing around driving like mad men. i was in front of thunder and was doing 45mph went around a curve and hugged it with only a small chirp from my tires then right after here comes thunder (he said he was doing 40mph as well) and he trys to take the curve and he started to look like he was just going to hug the curve then his whole camaro slid sideways and poped the curb and blew out his rear tire ****ed the rim and broke the front rim.

and btw my tires are all like a year old and my wonder wheel tire is almost bald

 

not only the age of the tires, but also what kind they are could've played a part in this.. if you've got crap tires, they won't grip...

since the crown vic made it through the turn at a similar speed, i'd like to say that you may've hit something on the road that caused you to lose traction.. however, it is possible that drivers error occured.. he may've taken a better angle, and you might have been a little too jerky on the wheel..

about the wheels, check the classifieds on this site, in your local area, and definitly check your local wrecking yards..

 

Tires make a difference - my 245/50/16 Kuhmo 711s stick nicely

 

what size tires do you have on yours. are they the same front to back? DId you have a lot of weight in the back of the car, passengers or car parts or anything?

 

No passengers or much weight in the back

As for tires, I just know they are some generic crud, 205 is the width is all I know offhand

As for the angle I took, I basically followed the same path he did. I eased into the turn rather than a quick movement of the steering wheel. Thats why when I started to slide I was thinkin

"uhhhhh wtf is happening..."

Before I could regain control, boom, I've already hit the curb. I didn't hit the curb at 40 mph though, maybe 30 or 25 ish, but it hit too hard either way.

 

sounds like tires. 205 is not very wide.

Does the guys vic have the police/taxi package? If so, he has a better suspension then you.

Alot of things could have happened, angle, area of road, twich you didnt know about, bad tires, narrow tires, suspension unloaded from a bind.

If all you have to do is get 2 new rims and alighnment be happy and learn from this incedent.

 

id agree with the tires 205 is kinda pukey for a firebird. Get some nice 275's. Hey Dale what are you running on yours, is that your car in your posts?

 

the wreckers should have those rims in stock

check it out online

www.car-part.com

 

check http://www.houseofcamaro.com/ as well. largest online f-body junkyard.

i used to have 235s on my car but now that i upgraded to 15 inch rims (from14) i can only fit 215s. man, they stick. they are bigO brand (tire kingdom if your on the east coast)

*EDIT wow i spelled it camero the 1st time.

 

Weight was the difference. he had more, so he had more traction.

Did you hit your brakes when you started to slide???

Probably should of nailed it and it may of kept you from smacking the curb so hard. You probably would of just did a 180 or 360. And probably hit the curb with the face of the tire and not the sides.

I did a dumb thing once. was racing at very hi speed in an industrial park. Flew over some tracks doing 80+ in a 68 Ford with drums all around. And the road took a sharp left turn right after the tracks. Was no way I was gonna make it. hitting the brakes would of been deadly. and just trying to turn would of been useless.

So I just stuffed it to the floor and yanked the wheel. car basically did a 180, slide around heading backwards with the tires smoking. It changed the direction of the force. I was no longer heading for the curb. I was now in a swing slide.

which saved me from doing similar as you.

A close wreck, turned out looking pretty cool.


When in doubt, punch it.

 

Gas would also come into play. How much did he have vs you???

Gas weighs up quick.

When they tested these car originally they were set up and meant to have so much gas in them.

a car on empty doesn't handle like a car on full.
And a car on full doesn't go as fast ans a car on empty.

between half a tank and full.
I can fell that major load of weight slowing me down.

 

Yes thats mine in the sig.

Daily use I have 235/65/15 no-names on it. Plan to go to 235/60/15 no names.

Racing, i have old s10 x-tream 16's, wrapped in 245/50/16 Firehawk sz50ep's

 

Wow, thats amazing. I don't think I could have pulled that off though.

Yeah I guess though, these 205s are pretty slim for a car like mine. I guess I might as well get some thicker tires when I get the new wheels

 

if you can find a z28 or trans am in the wreckers you may get a deal on the sway bars.

also i think weight had a positive effect for your friend in the crown vic. i drive a 86 towncar in the snow, and that thing wouldnt lose traction unless i really got on it. i could drive through snow past my doors.
and if you can picture doing the same corner in 3" of snow on the ground i think the same thing would have happened. thas why you see transport trucks dont really slow down when it snows. his car was heavier and had more downward pressure on the tires making it harder for him to lose traction.

 

cars with more weight might have more force pushing down on the tires but they also have more lateral forces as well trying to push the car towords the outside of the turn

also heavy cars tend not to like to change direction fairly well causing some nice understeer. then comes how the car rolls. heavy car once again will tend to make the car want to roll more causing some other nice issues. camber changes unloading of the inside wheels and such all of which might not be helpfull


part of the reason cars made for road racing are made light




with the gas part of the reason you might feel better with your handling when full is weight balance. rather then just having weight there to start with.

 

I think it might of been bad tires. not meaning just tread depth but other things like tire hardness. old tires tend to get hard and love to not grip anything. driver error could of been a part of it. with how you said it just start spinning part way through the turn you might of hit the gas upon exiting a little early and exceeded the grip your rear tires had to offer. might of been your line on how you entered the turn of exited the turn maybe something earlier how you braked into the turn could of setup what happened at that point.

if nothing else you might just have a hit a patch of gravel or have a bum suspension or bum tires... well bum before this happened


wish you luck on getting the car back on the road and might want to check make sure everything is still aligned right. but be happy thirdgen is easy to come by rims at a local junkyard or if nothing else as someone else said www.car-parts.com

 

I'd like to point out that our cars are not by any means "light"

You probably came into the turn at a wide angle and tried to compensate mid-turn by pulling in harder, which resulted in a slide.

You should not do any jerky movements while pushing such a load in a specific direction.... It's easy to break traction. ESPECIALLY on no name tires which are usually harder rubber to claim higher mileage on the sticker.

I run mid level Bridgestones on my car. I forget the exact model, they were 85 bucks a pop though, and get some decent traction. Not too expensive, but not too cheap either.

When we "drift" around in the big industrial road area around here, we take wide turns to the point where it feels like the tires are just about to break loose, then jerk it in and VOILA.

The slide has started.

Almost the same may have happened with you.

 

I can't believe nobody's mentioned this yet, but - When's the last time you changed your struts and shocks?

 

Just a shot in the wind but had to comment on one thing , alot plays in the handeling of our cars , driving style can even be a factor when cornering. seen people take a curve at 60 and someone else in the same car slide going slower. For the most part tires are a big factor , usually 3rd gens handle great and can do some fun snakeing through a curvey road. always alot of fun tho. most tests show the 3rd gens could get around .90+g's tho and with aftermarket tires and suspension can get over 1. depends on alot tho. just had to talk alittle lol

 

The only down side to our good handling is the un-baffled gas tank. *** I hate that. We got a killer new twisty road but I need atleast a half a tank to enough it.

 

Is your car a Berlinetta by chance?
Either way check for a rear sway bar. If you don't have one get a MATCHED SET from another V-6 third gen. It' my understanding V-8's had different sway bars and will NOT handle correctly. Which makes sense because of the weight distubution.
Don't mix and match these as it can have you in the same situation again. Install NEW links and connectors, this is a safety issue and failure would not be a good thing.
I did this with my single bar Berlinetta and it made a world of difference. $20.00 from the ole Junk Yard!
Also check the shocks, tires, springs etc.

Good luck!

BTW a heavy boat like your friends can handle corners really well if it is set up for it. The draw back of a heavier car is transitions. Know YOUR car and stay within ITS boundaries. Don't let the temptress lead you to an early demise, even if it is your friend.

 

Get teh V8 matched set from a Trans Am or Iroc (or z28) - they are a BIGGER matched pair, and will make the car handle better than the wimpy V6 ones

Sticky tires, stiff springs, lower center of gravity, less body roll - these are all things that help the suspension.

I can't believe Dean hasn't jumped this one yet

205s? You realize that 215s are stock? Wow... get some real rubber on the pavement. That's crucial!

I'm thinking of maybe AutoX my '88 Turbo

 

It’s actually easier to build a surge tank then it is to get a baffled tank… FWIW, my 83 had big problems with this, where my ’87 formula has absolutely no problem at all there.

Actually, the stiffer stock v8 bars on the 3rd gens tend to be a little too stiff on the back when you get the whole setup dialed in, which might be just right with a v6…

 

Ok I'm gonna report back here just to say I'm thinking it was those tires. I recently purchased a 79 camaro in which I took the back 2 tires off and used them on mine. Those tires were P215/65/R15 compared to the P205/65/R15 i had on before. With those in the rear, I was able to control some of that sliding ALOT better. I even went back to the spot and recreated the scenerio and had minimal if any sliding. Car hugged it like it was supposed to. I'm thinking it was the tires as well.

 

I can agree with that. I have seen some cars get out of control because of things like this in my younger days. Maybe the answer is simpler that a big suspension modification.

I'd still get bigger sway bars. (Matching from 6 cyl though)

 

http://www.miata.net/garage/tirecalc.html

You can use that to compare tire sizes and see how they change in looks. It has a profile and head on view.

 

That's cool!

Thanks

 

Deans been out of town.

Tom nailed it above with shock and struts.

Tires and shocks are the two main things that make a car grip- or bounce off the road for that matter.

I don't care how hard you would non smoothly "jerk" the wheel of my car through a turn behind a towncar, there is no way in remote heck that my car would even begin to fell like it were lossing grip compared to the most built suspension towncar you could ponder up. It just wouldn't happen. I hate to sound rude, but fact is there is a night and day difference like pairing a VW to a porsche. I just rented a Lincoln towncar a few months back when I flew up to Reno to visit family. The car was brand new yet scared the crap out of me going through the twisties to Virginia City for lunch- those cars are tuna boats. You have someting seriously worn on your suspension for it not to at minimum hang with a Lincon towncar or Crown Vic (ps, lincolns handle better.)

 

Plus, since he didn't say when the last time the shocks/struts were changed... I bet they're original.

And that means they're over 20 years old, worn out, leaking, and not even safe for normal driving- let alone taking sharp curves or swerving to avoid an accident!

If it were my car; I'd keep the current tires and put the money towards new shocks and struts.

 

I canhighly recommend the DropZone V6 Springs... 1" drop, and nice and stiff

 

just waiting till i get the stones to try and put these in.
never done anything but tuneups before

 

Do you have the single sway bar set up I had with my Berlinetta?

 

yes i do and my end bushings are soo bad

 

LOL! The shocks are cake to do. Struts are a bit harder, especially since you need a torque wrench. Strut-to-knuckle torque is 180 ft/lbs and you don't want to "guess" at how tight you make them. (Your version of tight might only be 150 ft/lbs.) And with struts you need to get an alignment ASAP afterwards... but when you do the springs, you'll need an alignment anyway.

The springs will be the hard ones; especially since I bet your lower control arm's bolts have rusted to the LCA bushings's inner sleeve. That means the nut will come off, the bolt will spin, but the bolt will be "locked into the bushing". Then youll be stuck in hell, just like I was... no high power tools fit easily in that spot to grind away the "exposed" bolt head & bolt threads.

 

well maybe ill try the shocks myself one of these times

i got the brakes apart now (first time) trying to get my crossdrilled rotors resurfaced.

also just test fitted my roh rims. looks to be close fit with that bmw 120mm vs our 120.7

 

I still recommend a set of sway bars from the junk yard. I found a set of high performance ones at the local pick-n-pull and it made a world of difference, even with the stock springs. The front bar was really heavy (I didn't weight it though). Make sure to get the brackets for the rear sway bar that attach to the end links. With NEW end links I paid ~$40 bucks. Again I recommend a matched set from the same car. It made a huge difference for me. I also added the wonder bar at the same time but you'll need to modify the radiator hose bracket (2.8) or it will pinch it some.

If your end link snaps you will not like the results. This I believe is very dangerous and I would get this fixed right away.

 

Thunder, I am parting out a '91 RS with 16" wheels. They got the beefier suspension parts when ordered with the 16" wheel. Do you want the swaybars off of it?

Martin