Hi all you V-6 Tech Gurus!

OK, I finally got all my modifications done (except the 115mph limitation which I have a work around.

Here is my status....
Basic 91 3.1L V6 automatic.... eBay..... -$850
Spare parts............................ eBay..... -$ 82
Sell Spare parts not used ...... eBay.... +$300 !
Better rims ............................ eBay .... -$ 50

Added the following:

Hooker Long Tube Headers .... eBay .... -$ 65
MSD Ignition ........................... eBay .... -$ 40
Heater Core ..................... autozone ... -$ 20
AC Delete Pulley Heater box ....eBay .... -$100
Hypertech chip (used) ............. eBay .... -$ 50
Cold air intake (made it myself)... free

Remove AC, Replace Heater Core, Chrome Valve covers,
Replace oil pan, transmission pan, fix all leaks (there were several) Dyno..... $-1300

Total invested = $2257 vs Blue book says $3500

Now for the meat of this post.

Took it to the dyno and the following is the results.
Max Power = 136 Max Torque 175.6



Not too bad I think?

I'm don't know how to interpret the charts but I think I may have some transmission slippage? See the wierd loop it makes on the chart? Does anyone know what this means?

Anyone have any comments or intrepretation of these results?

Thanks in advance! See you in the fast lane!

 

What RPMS were those at? Very nice!

 

those are very good numbers!

 

Those the only mods done to the car....seems a bit high of a rating for such small mods.....and with it being an automatic....hmm just my .02 cents

but then again anythign is possible...

PF&E headers full mandrel bent exhaust into a Deadbird muffler
Hyptertech Chip
Stock Intake with K&N filter
Underive Alternator Pulley
Underive Crank Pulley
5 Speed Tranny Swap
Few other minor things

133 HP and 178 TQ

maybe if mine had been tuned up and in better running condition it wouldve been way better but ive been trying to blow that engine up more motivation to finish my 3.4 L engine swap

Good Job though, do some more work to that and youll have a fun v8 killer

 

well, considering the car came out the box with 140hp/180tq, and it is now 14 years old with unlisted miles. I say not to bad.


Makes me wonder what mines at

 

umm....i thought the 3.1 came with 140hp and 160 Tq

 

nope, 2.8 had 160 tq, 3.1 had 180 tq. makes me wonder if my high stall convertor is really hurting my dyno number that bad!?!? i might have to put the stock convertor in it for a little while just to experiment...

 

Hi Guys....

They won't let me post pictures yet because I am a Jr. member.... so I can't show you the charts.....

The best torque and HP were at 4250 rpm

My understanding is that the factory spec was done at the flywheel with highly modified engines and special fuels. Basically they would take the block as high as it would go till it litterally blew up. Of course that did not take into account all the losses after the flywheel..... I'm not sure WHEN they changed how HP was rated... ... All the dyno of course is at the rear wheel..... Any estimates to the amount of loss after the flywheel?

According to the original documentation I have the factory numbers say the V6 was 140hp at 180 LBS torque....
But again how was it measured? My DYNO guy says the dyno is the heartbreaker because guys come in all the time expecting great numbers. He tells me of one kid who came in with a "400" hp engine and it was barely over 250 in reality!

V8 Killer.... I like that.....: Most of the time I can keep up with the V8's pretty well. I had a (I think it was ) a 1979 Formula 350 automatic that I actually named the Vette Killer.... toped out at over 160mph!

My list of INTERSTATE victims from my v6 is growing .... (I don't really care about 1/4 mile numbers....
My overpriced car "kills" so far: BMW 528, Audi T4, and too many Hondas and Toyotas to count.....

I'm going to the drag strip soon so I will know the times for sure.... I'll keep you posted.

See ya! Thanks!

 

By the way what times should I be expecting in the 1/4 mile?

Thanks....

 

i wouldve posted my graphs but they printed out to light to scan onto the computer.

i think auto tranny losses were estimated 20% and manual at 15% give or take, its just a guess im tired

correct the 140 hp and 180 tq is factory(i forgot untill today the exact numbers, thanks ams) but that is what it is rated at the flywheel not at the wheels....so a lot of us are putting to the wheels what a stock motor puts out at the flywheel which is kinda cool

a lot of people dont realize that just cuz your motor is rated at a certain number doesnt mean all of that is getting to the wheels, not to mention most peopl estimate there engine power way higher than it is due to estimation of bolt ons(by what the manufacture says lol)

i may throw some wheels on the camaro for the weekend so that i can get some 1/8mile numbers before i pull the 3.1 outtve her...lemme how the 1/4 mile goes, dont expect much though

 

oh guesses on the 1/4 mile, id say high 15 at most, ams camaro is running 14s now but hes done a crap load to his engine...you may not even break into 15s....the sad reality of driving a v6 camaro....for now at least lol

vvvrrrrooommmm....pppssssttttt (turbo)

 

Nono, it's more like:

vvrroooOOOM*PSHhh*vroOOOOOOOOOOOO*PSHHh*
(note the extremely short first gear)

 

he should probably expect 17 in the 1/4 mile... that 15second stuff is over-optimistic for essentially a stock car.

 

Hi Guys,

Well I took my car to the strip.... This was my first time to a strip. Boy did I feel like a fish out of water! All import cars and high end new american muscle. Young teenie bopper baby girls in miniskirts (I could fold them in half like a pretsel) and I thought my jeans and leather jacket were very appropiate even if the cowboy hat was a little over the top. Excuse me!

My reaction time in a word Sucked! (Notice the capital 'S')
0.96 sec. If I subtract my reaction time out of it she ran
15.6 Sec at 88 mph almost identically all three passes.

At first I was dissappointed but realized that my third gear never really hooked up solid so I sorta coasted the last 100 feet or so. I watched the tach go nuts between second and third for about a second.... so I think my horsepower is now overpowering the third gear clutch.

But, considering I set this car up for interstate driving I guess she is not too shabby for a 14 year old car. Plus it was alot of fun.

Gears, gears I must have gears.... like a 4:10 posi!!! Anyone want to trade for a like new set of 2:73 rear end gears?

And I got to spend some bucks on transmission rebuild. Then I'll try the strip one more time. !!

 

my 1/4 mile guess...low 17s to mid 16s. Depends on the weigh and what suspension and wheel combo you have! I have had alot of issues with mine due to these factors!

I have a 3.4 with a ton of mods! cam, porting, under drive pulley, 19lb injectors, msd coil, flowmaster exhaust, cut out, pf&E headers...etc...

Lack of tuning is killing me along with a 2.8 intake & tb...no air in. also have an exhaust restriction! Need valve job!

Dyno at the rear wheels: 134 HP & 207 TQ

1/4 mile (car weighs 3755 with me in this run) Suspension lowered prokit, iroc sway bars & wonder bar, heavy street wheel and tire combo and tranny that will not shift into 3rd!
16.8 @ 80mph!

AMS is running 14s with a crap load of compression compared to the rest of us! With mods out the yang!

 

First thing, you can't subtract your reaction time to get your E.T. the elapsed timer doesn't start until you leave the line, even if you sit there for 3 seconds. but, mid 16s isn't too bad, especially with 2.73s! I would not go to a 4.10 rear end gear, I've been there and 4.10 isn't where its at with these motors. I have a 3.73 now and its a lot better. you run out of rpms before the end of the 1/4 with 4.10s. but, wow, 88mph is really good! I'm only running like 90. what were the 60ft. times?

My dyno numbers aren't that great but they told me that high stall convertors will make the dyno show a lower number and I have a high stall convertor... Also, last time I had mine on the dyno was with our new intake and throttle body, but the tranny was acting up. We only got to run it up to a little under 5k rpms and it made around 10 more HP at the wheels than it had before. I don't remember the exact numbers, I'll look at the sheet again later and post them. But, I know that running it on up to 6500 or so will show better numbers.

 

heh, with logic like that, I could sit at the light for 3 seconds, and I'd be in the 14's!!!!

 

I've always heard that a higher stall convertor would help at the dyno, at least for the torque (though how you accelerate on the dyno can affect the torque # also). If it does hurt HP #s, any idea how much???

 

Hi Guys,

Well, like I said I think the 2nd to 3rd shift didn't work too well so I am optimistic at a better time after I finish all the tranny adjustments.

I don't have 2.73.... I have the stock gears (unknown) as the label tag on the rear end was removed. I DO have a new set of 2.73 gears sitting in a box next to my makeup mirror. If anyone wants to swap gears

I thought a 4.10 would put me into the power band of my dyno... about 4000 rpm. If I shorten the time on second gear I think she will pull third well enough to post some good times....

My exact numbers were: (without my illogical logic a few people seem to have taken exception to)

R/T 0.978
60' 2.261
330 6.738
1/8 10.516 at 64.63mph
1000 13.813
1/4 16.616 at 80.12

so all you techy gurus out there can disect these numbers and tell me what they mean.
Where do I go from here?

My take on the numbers....
she'll snap your head back off the line and leave you wondering "where did she go?" on the interstate
not bad for an eBay car. (And personally still one of the coolest looking cars on the road today! Bar NONE!) Not that I am opinionated at all.

See you in the fast lane boys! Be safe, Miss Renee'

 

those are some extremely impressive numbers. ive got a 3.4 w/ some good mods (listed on my website, headers, LCA brackets, clutch werent done at time of running) and youre not far behind me.

R/T .944
60 2.201
330 6.625
1/8 10.394
MPH 66.69
1000 13.565
1/4 16.262
MPH 83.09

looks like ive got some more work to do, lol. great job though!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Alright, I'm lookin at my dyno sheet now, I made 154 hp at like 4900 rpms and 174 tq at about 4200. That was the longest pull we got to make and still quit at about 4850. hp was climbing steadily and tq was still about 165 when he had to back out. Hopefully I'll get it back on the dyno soon and get some real numbers.

I don't know or understand why the high stall convertor would effect it but that's what they told me and I figure that they'll know what they're talking about since they deal with it all the time.

 

Bad Kitty, what all have you done to your car to get it to 16.6?

 

Have you done anything to the suspension? That might explain why the numbers are better. I know mine being lowered and beefed up hurts the 1/4 mile times. Well that and the car's weight!

I was ticked when I went to the track 2 weekends ago...I was at 16.7...dropped 200lbs out of the interior...disconected the front sway...had on drag radials...

But stupidly I totally forgot to run premium...all this high gas prices has forced me to daily drive on reg unleaded. So who knows what that did to my runs. At least it was still an improvement! The funny thing....I was totally puling cars off the line, but then the car would just run out of ompf! Its like on my dynos.


The TQ just drops from the get go. Thats why I want to mill the heads and go with a longer intake runner!

But then I got the car emission tested and failed something aweful on the CO side! So I'm thinking what ever caused that also caused the bad track runs! If its not one thing its another! Hopefully the new chip will straighten it all out!

 

I have this horrible problem where I run out of "oomph" as well..

it usually happens somewhere between hitting the gas pedal, and hitting the brake pedal...

cause: v6

can't wait to get that turbo...

 

Trying to steal my name biatch

 

those a some nice numbers. get that thing to the track. i'm curious to see what you will do in the 1/4.

 

wow thats good. im surprised no one has called bs or show some pictures. thats all the responses i got when i posted a 16.9@82 lol for a stock car

 

If we knew some more info on the mods, we'd know if it were bs or not.

there has to be some engine mods of some kind... definitely not the original motor, unless it has been rebuilt.

 

<B>Hi Guys,

I know it is hard to believe; all this car stuff and an Amazon Goddess too ! Such a total package.....

The first thing you boys should know about me is that I NEVER (intentionally) lie! I always call it like I see it and don't often pull too many punches. If you did a good job I'll say "Good job" and will smoke one with you! If your effort was pathetic or you LIMPED out because you had little tiny ones .... I'll tell you that too! (and then I'll smoke one by myself! Thank You very much!)

Hey, V8 Slayer.... I'm not stealing your name, relax

Scrapmaker, as far as trying to "determine" if any of my posts are BS (except perhaps my initial optimism about how to calculate times) let's test the car together in person, anytime you want to visit Boston. The car is available for inspection. (Actually for sale $3000) You can keep the dragstrip time sheet.

7plagues, you want pictures of me going fast?
How about one of my TAIL lights? You can take it for yourself.

redraif, I don't know of any suspension mods though the body is totally redone in the GTA Banshee style. I think the front torsion bar looks like the large one, the rear has apparently one traction bar on the drive wheel and one alongside the tranny but not one on the passive wheel? majorly weird.... so I'm not sure what the suspension setup is. (Not my area of expertiese, sorry)

Apparently some of you don't read all the way from the top so I've recapped it for you.....

Found the car on eBay.... pictures only 75,000 miles $850

The car was neglected but not abused, so I replaced every filter, fluid and replaced every leaky gasket.

Oil pan busted, tranny leaking..... funny thing was the car had ARP (American Racing Products ??) all over the back window. I had always hoped that meant there was a cam in the engine but who knows? There you go guys! The perfect excuse why I'm faster.... not that a GIRL could build a tighter, better engine or set up the car better.... jeeesssss isn't this the 21st century?

She came with the 120mph speedometer and she seemed to be strong around 80mph. She got 26 mpg from the start now with the chip I think its more like 23 mpg
<B><font color=blue>
Added the following:

Removed all AC components
Bypassed all the emission garbage
Replaced Heater Core
Hooker Long Tube Headers (ORIGINAL 1991 never used! MINT fit perfect)
MSD Ignition and coil (45,000 Volts)
Hypertech chip
Cold air intake
Bosch Platnium x4 plugs
Rear Air Shocks
Front Struts
Replaced Idler arm and Ball joint
Overhauled brakes and upgraded to ceramic pads
Chrome Valve covers
Replaced the oil pan
Replaced tranny filter and transmission pan
Fixed all leaks (there were several)
Dyno

Dyno Results: Max Power = 136 Max Torque 175.6 ...
Strip Results on 60% wore out stock tires and a trunk load of tools 16.616 Sec @80.12 mph
(But my tranny was slipping )
<font color=red><b>
BS or NOT BS..... THAT is not even a question!
See you in the fast lane boys!

 

I'm always in the fast lane... but it takes a while to get up to speed!

btw you left off the magic juice that you poured into the gas tank.

 

I thought everyone used the magic juice in the tank.... that is why I didn't mention it!

 

shhh nope, it's just our little secret...

I really get 13.9 with my v6... with magic juice of course.

also, a good wax job outta get it in there quicker!

 

Make sure to put your headlights down .... that will save a few thousands of a second in wind resistance too!

 

I would, but I removed them... and all paint, metal, rubber, and plastic... to make my car faster.

 

I think the only reason I was not given a harder time in the begining was that most never knew I was a girl till I put it in my sig! I still get the occation person who does not know I'm a girl! Though they rag on my poor slow v-6 just the same! Though I can say no one has ever called my stuff BS. Though I'm usually the only one who has slips and dyno pulls on a v-6. Had a flame war a while back over that. I posted as you did...what should the car run... Though usually what I post is too freaking slow to get called out. I can't seem to get the blasted thing dialed in right! There is just something odd that is holding the car back...

The suspension on my car being set up for handling actually hurts it on the strip...thats why I asked. Lowering springs that are progressive usually hurt your launch. Makes it harder for the car to plant properly. Mine spins too much off the line! My 60 foot times are horrible!

 

I actually wish I had that problem... the only time my tires spin off the line is when the guy with the hose forgets I have a v6... and I end up driving through that damned water puddle....

 

oh i wasnt calling bs by any means. its just that ive noticed that when someone post a decent time for these cars people are all over them with ... all i can say is good job! and your tail light might be in front for about 2more months.

 

Funny thing is I don't consider those 'good times'. I think if I get the tranny adjusted I hope to be in the very low 16's or high 15's even!

I wonder if changing the rear to a 4.10 would get me in the 4000 rpm range (my max hp) the entire length of the track?

I think the key is getting anything that dosen't produce horsepower OFF the car. I sweat in the summer because I have 2-80 air conditioning..... 2 windows at 80mph.....

Play safe boys!

 

Haha.. same here. I have completely stock suspension + 1" drop (still stock in the back... how's that for not getting around to doing things? ) and I'm running a 14.95 @ 101

 

I just don't see how adjusting the tranny will increase your times by a whole second.

 

a slip between gears can easily cost you several tenths, possibly close to a second.

 

but the times she is already getting leads me to believe that her tranny must be in prestine condition already...

I can't wait to hear what she gets after a little 'tweaking'

also, Kitty, can you do a couple of runs without magic juice? for those poor souls who can't afford such luxuries?

 

Luckily they have an area where you can go around the puddle at the track I go to! I did really get on it at one launch (no burnout) and the whole car went sideways, even with the drag radials! Got to be the suspension! Though with the drag radials this last time I did go thru the puddle and did a mild burn out. I was impressed the car did it! Got a crap load of rubber on the quarters too! I was so proud. Though up until this year with the 3.4 the car was so out of sorts it could not even brake the tires loose! (darn dealership rebuilt unbalanced 2.8!) Joe did not want me to even try to do a burn out cause he thought the car would not do it and I would embarass myself! Then I was actually able to do one! Too Funny! Was my best time. Would have run it a few more times, but we had to go! Figure w/o the right tune, it does not matter what I do!

How I wish that had been true for me!

1 year ago I went to the track...ran 16.8 @ 80 mph with the tranny hanging on the 2-3 shift. Used a NHRA conversion and calculated what my time would have been based on the 1/8 mile time on the same time slip...if the car had held strong and not hit the rev limitor, it should have pulled a 16.5. That was with street tires & a weight of 3755!

This time I managed to drop 200 lbs off the cars weight. Had drag radials. The tranny was fixed! And the front swap was disconnected! I had hoped my times would have improved... well I got 16.7 @ 81 mph instead! Though that was on reg unleaded (forgot to run premium) and with an intermitant TPS code...though the voltage reads fine!

I ahd hoped with the prob fixed and the weight loss, the car should have pulled low 16s! Guess premium goes a long way! Like Joe said to me, I pull everything off the line and then the car just poops out! runs out of HP! Got to be the air and exhaust!

Well considering an unmoded worn out 100,000 mile 2.8 typically runs 18s. New stock it ran 17s. One that has been gone thru & is really tuned up, but stock will run 17s. Heck mine (2.8) had a bad rebuilt block from the dealer (unbalanced) and was throwing a EGR code my first time to the track...I got 20s!

With a cam, ported intake, ported and polished heads, shift kit, fresh 3.4, rebuilt distributor, 18 degrees of timing, 19lb injectors, under drive pulleys, cut out, unrestricted cold air induction, no egr, mid length headers, ...etc... I'm only pulling 16.7! Yeah your car is doing very well!

if it has 4.10s are too much for a auto! You will run out of gear before the end of the run! 3.73 is the best bet!

Weigh does play a hugh part! You are right! So you have a swiss cheesed, carpetless, dashless, empty bumper covers, lightless, lexan windowed version of the original! OK so you might be able to shed enough to get the car to the low 14s N/A. But then you can't enjoy the car!

In your case you would probably be better off to go with Dowards turbo kit, or nitrous, or get a v-8 and swap it in! That is if you are that commited to wanting this car to be fast! Bolt ons are only going to get you so far! 16s are about it, unless you start porting and throw a cam in the car! You might be able to get 15s! But then you get into tuning...there really are no chips out there for tuning a v-6. Thay are all custom! AM91 has a ton of compression that has gotten him further then the rest of us!

For me...I want an all around car that can handle that I can still enjoy drivning everyday! The fact that is is a daily driver means no v-8! Too much down time!

 

just buy a v8 car that needs the engine rebuilt...

I bet you can find one for well under $1000...

rebuild the motor for $2000 and you can probably make mid 13's...

same price I paid for my v6

I've unfortunately got like 7k in my bird, and nothing to show for it... rebuilt motor, and replaced nearly every sensor, and every other wearable component.

damn old cars, I wish I had an '02 ws6... just forget about all the squeaks and problems and just have fun and go fast...

plus if girls were like bees... then a ws6 is like delicious honey.

 

My stock, worn out 87 TA was far more reliable than the average 4th gen...at least when third gen parts need replacing, they are cheap!

 

yeah.... well, now that all of our cars are 15 years or older... they aren't so reliable any more...

I'll admit... as soon as I replace my tranny, the only thing on the car that will be stock is the rear-end/driveshaft, suspension, and a few select sensors...

 

You made me wonder if anything is still stock on my car in the engine bay...well if you count removing cleaning and painting as a change then...
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hmmm....
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ummm.....
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gas tank is original, if you don't count the neck change and soundproofing! Though I want to swap for a 4th gen plastic one!
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My cross member...though I will be upgrading to a tubular one soon!
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My charcoal canister & orb of power! though I'm debating about what to do with the canister!
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egr solenoid...to be removed since I have no egr!
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A/C compressor...though its acting up!
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my fuel lines! Though we want to go braided!
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my lock cylinders...well the ones i still have!
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My prom though new one is one the way!

My guages!
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my upper pan hard! I want to box it though! See what it does if anything!
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the unibody & t-top weather stripping!

Thats all I can think of!

Everything else has either been replaced, or repaired, made better & or modified...in the last 4 years! So I virtually have a new car better then when it came from GM! Now try convincing an insurance company of that!

 

nah, someone opens their door on your car at a supermarket, your car is considered totalled to te insurance company.

 

Isn't that the truth...hence the new daily driver....though it is a collectable, 84 Indy Pace car fiero! Try to convince the insurance comp of that!

 

oooh... any significance to the pace car version?

plus, can you put a 2.8/3.1/3.4 60v6 in a fiero?

I could see some potential in that 2700lb car...

is a fiero RWD, or mid-engine or what?

cuz if it's mid-engine RWD you could just use an FWD motor setup, right?