anyone here tried this stuff yet?

http://web.camaross.com/forums/showthread.php?t=399894

 

wow thats some great info

if people reading this didnt read the whole thing, with a simple junkyard parts and off the shelf gm head and intake swap he increased his rwhp/rwtq to 183/203 with gen 3 heads, then switched heads again with a 2000 aluminum gm head with large valves, and undyno'd hes faster than a z28 lt1 convertible

im trying to replicate this on searches through the wreckers. so far im well under the 1000$ canadian mark for everything he listed

dont think a bare core block only comes with crank rods and pistons though.

1993
Engine
Pontiac Firebird BARE CORE BLOCK ONLY 109,917
--km--
177,000 M321 $83.33
--Can--
$100.00

1997
Head(Cylinder)
Pontiac Trans Sport 3.4L,CMPLT.ALLOY WRECK $104.17
--Can--
$125.00

1997
Intake Manifold
Pontiac Grand AM 3100,COMPLETE,BOTH PIECES,WFUELRAIL 3C004 $83.33
--Can--
$100.00

2002
Throttle Body
Oldsmobile Alero 3.4L,W.TBS SENSORS PD4151 $75
--Can--
$90.00

is a total of 415$ i think...

if the block doesnt come with rods and crank... then id have to get

1995
Engine
Pontiac Firebird 3.4L,ATWIRES CUT,NOT TESTED 144,072
--km--
232,000 H-2231 $500
--Can--
$600.00

and sell the whole top end and change the pistons..


sounds like a plan for a kickass and cheap 3.4 build

these parts are just what came up when i did searches on 1996 3.1 intake parts, and 2000 heads from a pontiac grand am. dont know about 100% accuracy to parts used.

 

wonder how that stuff works on a 2.8?

I think the problem with the 3.4 is the engine was originaly everything was designed to work well with the 2.8. Then they started up'in the CCs and the sucker can't breath right.

 

I might just have to pick up a 99+ GT upper. Intake, tb, heads, injectors and whatnot.

 

You have to use the FWD rotating assembly, and make custom brackets

 

really? i read that it bolts up

"And I realized that the FWD heads and intake manifold were direct bolt-on parts. The holes all lined up, and they were aluminum which would shave weight off of the engine."

 

They do bolt up - but the Al heads are ~26cc, and ours are ~49.5 cc. You'll be running around with like 12:1 CR

 

that would explain the power increase. If you could keep the 50cc head and still run 12:1 that may be somethin

 

isnt 12:1 streetable?

or couldnt you remove material from the bowl of the chamber to lower this number?

 

whats the difference between the fwd pistons and the reg ones we have,,,gotta be a combination of the cc and pistons,,,,,,,anyone know for sure?

 

does porting and polishing the heads bring the compression down?

 

Front drive pistons have a deeper dish.

 

Could you just change the piston then and be good to go?

 

if you cain keep it from detonating, yes, but it would be a fine dance of all the variables to do that.

 

ok,,,so since the reg 2.8/3.4 pistons are flat-top with a large chamber in the heads,,,,,,per previous posts, the aluminum heads have a small chamber and dished pistons in the bottom end,,,,,,,,,,,,seems the only way to not do the piston swap (which is why all of us are saying "sounds great but that sucks") would be possibly to use shim head gasket(which the author advised against,,,,remove some material from the chamber in the head, or somehow grind the top of the 2.8/3.4 pistons to dish them thereby lowering the compression ratio,,,or some combination of the above,,,,if thats possible,,,,,,,,,,,,,we need some expert engine builders advise........................

 

The rear drive pistons are dished too, just not as much.

 

dunno about it but how much could you bring it down with some thicker head gaskets?

.40-.80 steel / copper / felt gasket

 

Just snag a whole FWD motor, and yank the heads and rotating assembly

You need the pistons to go with the heads.

 

Though the intake would need athicker gasket seal too. That can be gooped.

And I don't have a clue what the stock gasket size is, I just know people play with them to lower or raise it. remove the stock GM .80 for a .40 steel shim

 

"You need the pistons to go with the heads."

Just swap the pistons, heads, intake, injectors and your good to go?

 

So if I'm reading this right, I can take apart that FWD 3.4 out of my sister's POS that has no tranny, swap in it's pistons, the heads, the injectors, and MPFI intake into and onto my 2.8 RWD in the RS and I should have more power!? Correct? If so my problems with my car may be over as I have the parts all at home other than still needing a MAF sensor and the gaskets for this project.

 

The 3.4 has a bigger bore than the 3.1 and 2.8, you can't use those pistons.

 

That's what I thought and why I asked. I geuss I'm missing something from what I read.

 

The 3.1 also came in front drive cars. Those are the pistons to use.

 

What if your gonna be running a 3.4l? I'm swapping in a 3.4l next June but will have the motor next month, can I just swap heads, intake, injectors, and pistons and be good to go?

 

when you pick up the 3.4, i'd put it on a stand, and begin swapping the pistons....not sure what a 3.4L (FWD) engine kit would cost, or whether it'd be worth it. but swap the pistons in your 3.4L, then take all the FWD 3.4L equipment and put it on top of the RWD 3.4L engine, and bolt it in and go.

hey, what about the TPS on the 3.4L engine, since there's been 10 years of improvements and changes, would those units be compatiable w/ our stocker computer?

 

I've only been talking about this for about 3 years now.



Though mine is in an S-15.

You will also need to swap to a different ECM and convert to DIS, which is why the 3.4 is recommended. The 3.4 block has provisions for the CPS, also the crank has the proper notches in it.

Now, if you want to install something like what I have:



That is an external crank trigger. The trigger wheel is mounted behind the crank pulley. The sensor is on an adjustable mount, I like adjustability.

My block is a 2.8L block and that is why the external crank trigger was built. I can also swap that to any RWD 660 I may use in the future.

The question of the TPS and compatibily has come up.
Yes the TPS will work, all GM engines use the same range, though throttle tip may change between engine to engine.

You'd also have to keep the dizzy in order for the sensor compatibility to matter.

I will be swapping to a dizzy, in the future, I have a couple ideas on how to go about doing that, one includes a completly custom intake, which is probably the route that I will go.

 

so at this point, what is the difference between putting all the FWD stuff on a RWD block(besides RWD pride), and just swapping in a complete FWD engine . . . motor mounts, starter location . . . anything else?

 

i'd say the same difficulties of swapping to any front wheel drive block, it's simply easier at times to start w/ what you have, or what's made to bolt in, and then modify forward, instead, you'd be modifying to get what's not made to go in, to go in. If you were swapping the full FWD setup, you'd end up making changes also, and coming up with some fabricted parts like the motor mounts, etc. But, it'd just depend on what way you wanted to attack this thing.

 

problem with using that thicker gasket is you lose a lot of squish

 

squish? are u talking about ability to have compression? if so, that's exactly what they were talking about trying to lose....

 

I'm not talking about the compression ratio itself but rather that little area between the piston and the flat spot on the combustion chamber.

that little area helps promote better, faster, more efficient burn while making the motor less prone to detonation.the clearances there if they get too loose kinda work against that from happening

 

I started with a RWD block for my build, since I knew that it bolted in. The mounts had the correct bolt bosses to attach to, and the biggest reason was starter location. I could have drilled the mounting ear for the starter, but also at the time the truck was my DD, so I didn't want to have to screw around with making a mount when I did the swap, because I knew I already had enough to do. BTW on;y the driver side mount needs to be fabbed. The passenger side will bolt onto the FWD block, but not all bolt holes are in the correct spot. Also the FWD block uses a bolt that is passed through the lower flange for the engine to bellhousing, that on the RWD engine is threaded. A bolt and nut would have to be used here, not a big deal, but with that being just above the starter in the RWD configurartion it is something to think about.

Also when swapping to the RWD front cover there are a couple changes that need to be made, the RWD uses a bypass in the block at the H2O pump, where as the FWD does not, and requires this port to be plugged when using the RWD timing cover/water pump on the FWD block, not a huge deal, but worth noting.

 

ok thanks. i was reading and it also appears that there is absolutely no aftermarket for camshafts for the fwd engines, so you would want a rwd cam/timing setup anyway. in that case its starter and DS mount versus bottom end rebuild. probably better and easier to go with the RWD block.

i was looking at ARI's stroker stuff yesterday((stumbled upon it again), and it looks like if you arent into having to do the rebuild and stuff yourself, you could probably have them build the 3.4 the way you want it for no additional cost. They have 3.4 shorblocks, or can assemble a 3.4 longblock for you, but since they do both RWD and FWD, Fe and Al heads, im sure they would put all the Al head stuff on a RWD block instead of FWD block. too pricey for me, id just do it myself first(but only if/after i get out of cali), but im sure the option is there for others.

 

There are two generations with Al heads.
GenII also shares bumpstick parts with the genI (RWD)
GenIII has the limited bumpstick aftermarket but there are a few offerings out there now.

When I build my the Frankenbeast, I will starting with a 3400 (genIII) block, due to the better oiling, but I will be going ful custom solid roller lifter bumpstick.