Xx89CamaroRSxX

got a 89 camaro rs with the 2.8 173ci v6. i would really like to install a turbo on it. ive read the stickies provided and all that and it helps greatly. now my engine is in good condition it has 106,000 miles on the engine. but i wunna make sure while running boost to the engine it doesnt break or anything.

now i know i prob need intake manifold, new valves, valve spring lifters, valve stem seals. now by ur opinion what do i need to make sure i dont kill my car after installing the turbo? and where can i find these parts [links would be nice] its hard for me to find parts for the 2.8 and i would appreciate any help as im new to this whole thing. i just wunna make sure i can drive this car everyday and have it not die on me and cost me an arm and a leg

project89

iTrader: (1)

turbo my friend is not for you , unles su have prior turbocharging experience
keep it n/a for now.

but dont get me wrong it can be done reliably but u gota do ur homework first.

my first turbo setup i drove everyday for 2 years on the stock computer without anything other then a few small hiccups one was the flexplate breaking.

Xx89CamaroRSxX

i dont have turbo specific exspirience, but i do have mechanical exspirience and i have some people like proffesional mechanics [friends dad is a dot mechanic and has a drag nova built by himself] and what not to help. [welding and everything i can do. [i have a diploma for automotive refinishing and repair]
id just liek to get all the parts and everything together myself

project89

iTrader: (1)

well if u read up on it and undertsand how to tune it u will be fine, and if ur motors in good shape u wont have to replace anything. id say the 2 hardest parts of the whole job is tunning and welding in the oil return for the turbo

Xx89CamaroRSxX

alright sounds good so pretty much the engine can stay stock? its in good shape my friend and his dad [the mechanic] took care of the car and replaced alot on it. and how much boost you say would be good to run for good performance numbers but not pushin the motor to to hard?

project89

iTrader: (1)

depending on the turbo u chose 9-12 psi witht he stock ecm setup and 21 pound injectors

that wont push the motor to hard that would just be at the limit of the stock ecm.

7psi with the 21# injectors is very reliable with the stock ecm, just not optimal, if u to some ecm tunning or swap to a megasquirt ecm u will get alot more power out of it

Xx89CamaroRSxX

with the whole ecm thing what about like a hypertech performance chip or something like that? and whats this sap to a megasquirt ecm? i dont know much about ecms

and thanks for all the help your giving me. i really appreciate it

project89

iTrader: (1)

a hypertech or jet chip is the worst thing u could do with a turbo, they advance the ignition timming

megasquirt is a very cheap diy ecm that can be used to replace or run with ur stock ecm
http://www.bgsoflex.com/megasquirt.html
u can buy a ms ecm for 300 bucks fully assembled or for under 125 bucks i think if u put it together urself
i myself run the megasquirt ecm and swear by it, in the next few weeks i will be offering base tune files for the ms ecm on my companys website for free

Xx89CamaroRSxX

so these are like universal for most cars? and they jus replace the ecm you have now?

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

You're always pushing the megasquirt. You don't like oem ecm's?

Get a '730 with either B_AUJP or code $59. Cheaper than a megasquirt and keeps all the other functions. The stock '302 ecm isn't a bad choice actually. The spark retard vs mat table is good even unchanged and the maf takes most of the tuning work out of your hands- up to the max it can measure, then things can get real ugly. I wouldn't try more than 7psi on a stock tune even with larger injectors, LOL.

project89

iTrader: (1)

yeah u can use them on just about anything.

there are 2 ways to install it

#1 fully replacing the stock ecm
or
#2 u can wire it in to control the fuel injectors only

which one u do is upto you and were u live depending if u can get threw inspection without the stock ecm or not

u can wire it up to control the ignition and fuel while leaving the stock ecm in as well to control everything else.


the wiring u have to do looks much harder then it actually is.
me and another member of the boards here installed my megasquirt in under 4 hours without any prior experiance and had the car base tunned within 2 more hours

project89

iTrader: (1)

hell with having to burn chips to make changes,id rather pull out the laptop and make my changes on the fly. and i dont give a rats *** about the lean crusie and **** that the stock ecm has either i was well over 30mpg with 4:10 gears and the turbo on the ms ecm

everyone else argues about the emissions controls but u can have full control with the ms ecm while leaving the stocker inplace to control all that

the ms unit is more user friendly and easier to use right out of the box, and it has alot more useful features without having to modify code and all of that

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

You don't have to modify the code personally. I wish I could but I don't have the time to learn source code so I play with what other guys release. Some day I'll take the time to write my own code so I can put all the ideas I have into practice. Pretty involved, but that's something you'll never get out of an aftermarket ecm. Unless you want to decrypt their code.

project89

iTrader: (1)

no need ms code is public source u can download it modify it as u please and recompile it

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

Really? Cool, total diy then.

Y'know you can get an NVSROM for the '730 that lets you do flash tuning thru the aldl for like $70. Pretty slick. Then there's all the emulators and stuff out there that let you do the same, just not as good a price and 1 more cable.

project89

iTrader: (1)

yeah i know aboiut all that but its still more of a hassel then just going to the ms

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

'7730/'7749 w/ $59 FTW!!!

I'm running a '7749 with $59 on my Nissan L28 turbo, even the GM ECM is "universal", if you know what you're doing.

MS is crap, from what I keep reading.

On more than a few forums, I keep reading about MS random "resets", I NEVER experiance anything of the sort with my Delco (GM) ECM. No Limp Home Mode, which it sounds like it really needs with this frequent "resetting".

I don't know about the newer version or firmware, but at one time, there wasn't real time tuning, could only upload the MSQ while the engine was off.

I have real time tuning with my Delco ECM, with a very simple to use interface called an Ostrich 2.0. No EPROM programming here, though I can if I choose to. I simply plug my laptop in to the USB cable, or if I remember to, turn my Blue Tooth on, and connect that way, upload the bin while the engine is running. In fact I did that earlier tonight getting my idle tune better than I had it.

I've compared features of the Delco ECM, to the MS, last time I compared was the MS2, I haven't seen a full feature list for MS3 yet, that is supposed to be out soon, but the Delco ECM always seems to have more features available, that I'm interested in, like emmisions controls, because in my area that need to be kept functional, Vehicle Speed input, since there are some things based vehcile speed I like to have available, like proper TCC control, if I run an automatic, E-fan controls based on vehicle speed (high speed disables), in the case of $59, I have speed based boost control, there are compensation tables for coolant temp and manifold air temp, to control fueling and in some codes spark as well.

Another feature that I like, is that on the off chance an ECM fails on me, I can simply go to an auto recycler (wreckers) and buy another one, for cheap. The fact that I have ran Delco GM ECMs for pretty much as long as I have been driving and have only had one true ECM failure that was brought on by rain water getting on the ECM is a very good track record, much better than I have seen with MS.

I can also tune the Delco ECM for much cheaper than buying an MS and getting all the same features out of it, that includes buying the Ostrich, and paying for a Tuner Pro RT licence to get full real time tuning abilities. MS requires a bunch of modifications to get things as simple as the IAC to be functional, or boost control, BTW, the '7730 that is usually used in N/A applications has the ability to control a boost solenoid, using the proper code, without modification.

I find the Delco ECM very easy to tune.

I also tried running the MS tuning program (I don't recall which version off hand) on my laptop at one time, and became very laggy, my laptop is a pretty decent laptop, far exceeding the requirements to run, this was yet another strike against considering MS. I do look at MS from time to time, as I get another project that requires EFI, but the Delco ECM always seems to win out.

FWIW, I have two projects on the works right now, in addition to my Datsun with a Nissan L28 turbo, that will be using Delco ECMs, that being my granfather's '71 chev truck (highly modified), using Corvette Crossfire intake, 4L60E attached to a 1998 355 Vortec. The other is a 1923 T-Bucket "replica", that has a pretty warmed over 355, with Crower style mechanical injection intake that I am converting to EFI.

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

How is plugging an adatpor board in, soldering in 4 wires IIRC to the main board, then plugging back into your existing harness more hassel than installing a completly new harness, and needing to start a tune from scratch?

The other option that is even easier, is to go with an Ostrich, which simply requires removing the MEMCAL, plugging the MEMCAL onto an adaptor board, then plugging the Ostrich into the adaptor board, installing this back into the ECM, that may not even be unplugged from the harness.

project89

iTrader: (1)

random resets were from bad connections and noisy alternators, and is a long time old issue

and u dont have to mod the ms in anyway,now all u have to do is take out 4 screws and move lil plastic jumpers to enable the features u want, there all now built in

ms has always been tune on the fly,ur not supposed to flash ur msq when its running but u can, and there is no reason to flash ur msq anyway it only holds ur base settings liek map sensor type, metric or standard readouts, and o2 sensor type etc, and has nothing to do with fuel tables or ignition maps

if u try to flash a msq while the engines running it will just hiccup for a second

and as far as wiring in a whole new harnes nope not at all, geta pigtail and a few solder conections later ur up and running

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

Then I have my file names mixed up.....

On the boards I go it sounds like "MSQ" = "BIN", in that it holds the actual tune.

Also random resets are not a thing of the past, guys with new MS are still experiancing random resets. Both in pre-assembled and kits. Also I have yet to see these "jumpers" you speak of, I keep seeing "mod kits" listed to enable features, since the hardware does not seemto be included or installed in every MS.

Even with a pigtail, it's still more work than plugging in adaptor board inside the existing ECM. With the available parts and knowledge of the Delco ECM, it hardly seems worth it to swap to MS, in ant version.

Oh, the other thing that's nice about having vehcile speed input to the ECM, is that you can log it, sometimes it's important to know speed when looking back through logs.

project89

iTrader: (1)

look at v3.52 its all jumpers its a surface mount board so it has to come with everything though it does have a prototype area were u can add in ur own things if u wish.

bins hold the fuel and ignition tables and ive never had an issue saving a modified bin while the engine was running,anychanges u make to the bin files are in real time,but unless u save the file after altering it, it wont be there the next time u start the car.

the ms will do the vss sensor as well like i said the only thing the ms wont do is emission controls, and i do belive that the new ms3 will have some of those features as well as an onboard wideband sensor driver, i havent looked into it much as im very happy with my ms1 and dont plan on upgrading it anytime soon.

the only issue i ever had was when i burnt up the ignition driver, but that was my own fault and was a $3.15 repair

thats the other nice thing about the ms if u build it urself u learn what each resitor and part does so if something goes wrong u know how to fix it, and its very dam cheap.

not to mention its a helluva lot easier to get tunning and mod help

i cant count how many posts there are just on these forums alone of ppl having trying to get help with issues with the stock ecm and taking forever to get it

btw u do know ms will be plug and play for the 7730 harness right,and actually i havent checked in a while but it might already be out

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

No, there isn't a '7730 adaptor board yet, but still, that's more time and parts to assemble it, even when it does become available. If you're talking about the PnP stuff from DIYAutotune.com, they only have a few import applications available.

I have yet to see any mention of VSS capabilities with any MS.

The posts you see are not in the DIY Prom forum, so of course those will take a long time to get answers to. The DIY Prom forum has more information than anyone is ever going to need. Tuning the stock ECM is not hard, people just over think it, and confuse themselves because people like you say it's hard to tune when it's not true. So people will believe that it's difficult because they can't physically touch the changes being made, other than the adaptor an Ostrich if used. It's the same phenominon as with any electronics, people don't understand it because they can't see it work. I help people all the time with tuning issues, and most are just beginner confindance being less that it should be and scared of ruining thier engine, which is good to be cautious, but once the confidance is there, these people are usually good on thier own.

As far as needing to know how to repair the MS, that hasn't been an issue with my GM ECMs, other than the one ECM, but again, all I need to do is plug in another and go. If I decide I want to spend the time, I can likely find the problem with it and repair it. The need to repair an MS comes up VERY frequently, on the message boards I go to, which makes my confidance in the MS even less than it was before.

In short there is no need to install a lesser EMS in a car when the Delco EMS is capable of controlling everything very well.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

.... they are still working out a few details from what I was told. I'm only running MS-II w/the Camaro because I bought it back then, and because it is here for me to use. Was very close to running the '7148 in the '90 GTA with a revamped code because I have a scanmaster just sitting here, but opted for the $59 code w/the GTA instead. Haven't had it under boost yet, but I'm sure it will handle anything that I throw at it. When Megasquirt gets back to where they were in the beginning, and re-releases their 32-bit processor, then I'll abandon the GM stuff for good.

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

Well I wouldn't say it's easy to tune, especially when you get more in depth in areas most people don't bother with, but the basics are easy to learn. And there's alot of neat suff when you do get more involved.