i just bought the car last week off of craigslist,the PO said the car was missing its raidator and its driveshaft which it is....well after i got the car home i went out to try and start it to find that my battery is dead..so i charged my battery for 2 days and put it back into my car but when i try to start the car it cranks but does nothing else, the car sat for about 2 years before i got it...so can you guys help me diagnose my problem?

here is some info on my car:
---------------------------
90 camaro rs with 3.1 v6
fan is sitting in my car
serpintine belt is also in my car
has a new ignition
very little gas but im going to get more now to see if its just bad gas
fuel pump works

 

Also assume that you ahve put a drive shaft and a radiator in it.

Are you getiing spark??

Get some intake cleaner and spary in the itnake to see if it will start.

 

actually no, im getting my driveshaft this weekend and my radiator after x-mas

i will try that

 

I would wait till you geta drive shaft and raditor installed.

Without a drive shaft I think you will leak alot of trans fluid.

And a raditor you wont ahve any cooling. Not a good thing. Get the rest of the carf put together.

 

yeah i know, i dont plan on running the engine long...just want to make sure it runs, ill check my spark this weekend and i will also pick up some intake cleaner, any specific brand?

 

Trans will leak alot of fluid in a few seconds. plus the trans is normally seviced higher than the middle of the drive shaft seal. So you wont ahve enough trans fluid. Not a good thing. Changing trans is a PITA

injector cleaner wont matter.

Alos get a fuel pressure tester.

 

ok, ill try all this saterday when i get my driveshaft, and the cars been sitting for 2 years without a drive shaft in it so i thought maybe all the trans fluid dried up or something.....

 

Make sure you sevice the trans oil fluids etc. Before starting it. Better to have two much fluid initially than not enough.

 

Battery might be broke. I left one on a charger for a week and it still couldn't crank the car. Swapped it out for new and it fired up. Maybe take it in to Autozone for testing.

 

could having my ignition module off cause this problem too?

 

because i found some stray wires under my hood, well i went into my car to get something and it was in the backseat along with the box and recipt, so would this cause my car to crank but not turn over?

 

Let's put it this way: Without the ignition module, the ECM (computer) doesn't know the engine is turning over. Which results in NO fuel delivery AND no spark (module fires the coil as well as transferring reference pulses to the ECM for fuel delivery).

 

im kind of embarrassed to ask this but...can you break that down for me? im new to all of this since this is my first car.... i thought id have more knowledge on cars before i actually got mine so can you break what you said down please?

 

I'll have to try, I guess. The computer (ECM) "talks" to the engine through the ignition control module, the black box thing that has 2 2-wire and one 4-wire connectors, that is SUPPOSED to be mounted to the base plate inside the distributor. Also inside the distributor (or dizzy as most of us like shorthand) is another part called the pick up coil. The coil produces an electrical pulse whenever the pole piece that is mounted to the shaft lines up with the coil (I'd guess). This pulse is translated by the module and a signal is sent to the ECM that tells the circuitry inside the ECM that someone is trying to start or run the engine. As such, the computer fires the coil at an internally calculated period of time to send a spark to whatever spark plug is lined up with the coil by the cap and rotor of the dizzy. Also, based on what the computer figures to be the position of the engine, the ECM provides a ground to the fuel injectors on one side of the engine or the other. Each bank (side) of injectors fires 3 times for every 2 rotations of the crankshaft, so that one of the injectors per bank fires when it is the right time (the intake valve in the cylinder head being open and letting air and fuel into the combustion chamber).

So, as such, without the module, the ECM can't deliver spark or fuel, simply because it is looking for one of those signals, also known as reference pulses, to tell it that the engine is being cranked. Without the module, you could crank the engine until the battery and starter blow up (they won't, I promise, just a figure of speech) but the engine won't fire up.

Either way, I wouldn't even ATTEMPT to run the engine without a suitable plug in the tail of the transmission or a radiator.

(Whew, what a mouthful...)

 

that cleared up so much...thank you so much

but i have yet again another question sadly...i found a 4 pin black..uh thing in my center console im going to try and describe it as best as i can

at the top it has the 4 pin connecter then comes down into a celinder thats about an inch long then forms into a diamond with a hole at each point...so it has 2 holes, then at the bottom of the diamond it has spring going around a metel pole that has like a bullet point at the bottom of the pole...any clue?

 

That would be the thing called the idle air control motor. On the front of your engine, you will see a black rubber bellows. The metal thing that connects to is called the throttle body and contains the throttle valve, a metal plate. Up at the top of the throttle body, on the left side (facing the alternator), there will be a hole matching the shape of the control motor. Don't install the IAC motor unless it has the orange o-ring on it, or it won't work right. The connector faces out of the throttle body, towards the front of the car. I hope the previous owner didn't lose the mounting screws when he took it out, along with the ignition module screws.

 

only screws im finding in my console is the screws that go to my cover that goes over my air controls and my stereo, and the bolts that go to my ground effects chin spoiler, so hopefully they are under the hood, and as for the idle air control moter, it doesnt look like what i have, i just took a picture of it with my phone and im sending it to my email so give me a few and i should have a picture on here

 

 

 

Yep, that's it... Even still has the o-ring on it. I hope the screws are in the throttle body, because if not, then you have to try to find some at a hardware store that fit. Same for the ignition module.

 

 

take it that those screws are hard to replace?

also thank you so much dan and sorry about all the questions but i bought the car from an 18 year old that apparently didnt know much about these cars lol...but im not much better being only 15

 

Not hard, but you have to keep in mind that every bolt, screw, nut, and what-have-you fastener on the car is metric. Which means you need to go out and get a set of metric tools. The most common ones are 7mm, 10mm, 11-12mm (driveshaft), 13mm, 15mm, 18mm (big nut on starter holding the positive battery cable and the bolt in the middle of the crankshaft), and 19mm / 3/4" for the lug (wheel) nuts and a few other things. Also, you will need a 5/16 socket for the small nut on the starter for the ignition switch, and also for the bolts for the battery cables.

:edit: Oh, and the screws for the dizzy cap and the ignition module should be 5.5mm, IIRC (but I do know they are 7/32")... Same for the screws on the dash pad.

 

well between me and my step dad we have 3 tool boxes, and he has most the tools i need, but if i dont my uncle owns a car lot and has owned 4 camaros and has almost everything for them....would not having my IAC cause my car not to run aswell as my ignition module?

 

Without the IAC... the engine WILL start, but it will immediately die. That hole causes a major problem commonly known as a vacuum leak... One that big causes a no-run condition. Small ones give headaches, but the big ones just leave you hanging.

 

so like my problems? lol, i knew about the radiator and the driveshaft, and also about my serpentine belt and fan sitting in my car but stuff like this i dont know, i had someone tell me that the ignition module was a coil pack, and that my IAC went to my back hatch and that was why it wasnt closing..

 

Let's just say I was there six years ago. I bought my Bird with 194K on it from a guy in his 60s. The engine barely ran, the front brakes were lost without a cause, the car was in 2/3 primer, the pass side door didn't lock, the rear hatch didn't close right, the engine constantly stalled when I came to a stop (after I fixed the brakes) and overheated (and eventually blew up because of the overheating), and that doesn't even tell about the frame and body... That was (and for the most part, still is) a mess...

There's a reason I became a technician... Other than the fact I couldn't get into the Navy, that is.

 

i bought my camaro with 133k miles, missing the parts iv listed, my back hatch doesnt close for some reason i have yet to find so my hatch is leaking lol, its on a rebuilt title, the car needs paint and alil body work but other than that its fine, interior is good except its missing its headliner, the drive side seat has a 2" hole in it its got different visors on it than the stock ones, and my tint is coming off

 

If your hatch is like mine was, the pulldown mechanism that actually pulls the glass tight against the weatherstripping is not working. Mine should have been on a rebuilt title (both front fenders, both bumpers, and the pass side rear quarter have all been replaced at some point and the fenders and bumpers, with the exception of the driver's side, will be replaced AGAIN). Still needs paint, but needs weatherstripping, lots of rust kill on the roof, a new windshield, and other things (rear quarter realignment for one) first. Have 246K on her now... Still going. Going to have to get used to her actually idling at 700 RPM without spitting out a code 45, though... She's been like that for 3-4 years now.

 

thats exactly what my hatch is doing!! like i dont have power running to it but i can unlock it with my key, and i forgot to add that my windsheild is cracked all the way acrossed

 

You probably DON'T have power to the hatch, but that's left for the Electronics section. The easiest thing to say at the moment is to pull the tail trim panel that covers it and make sure it's plugged in before you check the fuse in the fuse panel under the dash.

BTW, if your windshield is cracked all the way across, you probably won't be able to have the car pass a safety inspection until it gets replaced. (I'm also a NYS certified inspector)

:edit: Also, when you go to install the radiator, get new upper and lower hoses, and probably the heater hoses as well. Do NOT reuse the hose clamps, as they are probably junk by now. Same for the thermostat. A trick to putting coolant in the engine is to remove the 2-wire sensor next to where the upper hose connects to on the engine. Stick a funnel in there, pour coolant into the funnel, and you won't have an air bubble sitting under the thermostat.

 

the latch has to have power to pull it down right? its power assist not a power hatch sorry, and i dont believe i have to have an inspection here in indiana...i dont think anyways


and ok, thanks for the tips, what thermostat is best? 160 or 185?

 

160 T-stat has the potential to mess with the ECM. The ECM enters "fuel save mode" known as "closed loop" operation when the aforementioned 2-wire sensor known as the coolant temperature sensor detects coolant temperatures above 160*F (among other things). 185-190* t-stats are stock... 180 probably would be best.

 

ok that works, im getting my driveshaft this weekend so that will hopefully be going in soon, if not ill have to wait till spring

 

where does my ignition module plug in it?

 

Does the car still have plug wires? Trace those back to the distributor cap (if it has one). If the cap exists, lift the cap off the body with the wires still attached, and the metal plate at the bottom of the whole thing will probably be bare. There will be a 2-wire connector already there, which is coming from the pickup coil. There will also be 4 holes towards the flat side of the plate, which is where the module sits. 2 of the holes are locators, and the other 2 are the screw holes. Also, there are 2 grills in the plate. Clean them up as best you can because the module needs to "breathe" in there. That 2 wire connector coming from the pickup coil goes onto the 2 terminals that are bare on the "curved" side of the module. You will need to go to RadioShack or somewhere and get some heat sink grease to put on the metal plate at the bottom of the module before installation otherwise it will fry and you'll be out $40 at the minimum (assuming the one you have is still good... warranties don't transfer). The notch in the flat part of the bottom of the cap goes in the groove on the flat end of the module, and the 2-wire connector coming from the ignition coil and the 4-wire connector from the engine harness plug into the flat end of the module.

 

thank you, once again lol

 

Of course, that all is useless if you don't have a distributor... Which wouldn't surprise me considering the things that are already missing (the radiator and the driveshaft, 2 of the major parts that make the car GO).

:edit: Let me know if you need anything else... I'm off to bed since I have to be up at 4:30...

 

ok, again thank you so much, i sent you a frends request

 

i had my ignition module tested today and its great, oriellys tested it 4 or 5 times and it came back good everytime....i cant seem to find anywhere to test my idle air moter, so do you guys know where i can get this tested?

 

i believe my car has it although i will check tomorrow, i didnt know i could follow my plug wires down to my distributor so ill be checking that tomorrow, i think the PO took the radiator and the driveshaft off for his bird im not positive though

 

It's probably not that it doesn't work... It's more like the fact that it's not installed that's causing a lot of the troubles. You can't really test the idle air control motor other than to see if the pintle shoots out when the key is turned off (and then you can't really get it back in). One thing you can do is set up for a code reading and, leaving the ignition on, place a finger or 2 on the IAC to feel for pulses.

 

my pintles out, and wont go back in, it wont move

 

You have to wiggle it in a circle as you push it back in so that the rotor inside will turn around the screw shaft.

 

yeah, i was afriad of my spring coming off or messing up

 

Nothing will happen to the spring unless the pintle is shot out of the motor... It may be notched at the top to fit into a groove in the back of the pintle, but it's round on the bottom.

 

no i ment when ever i turned the pintle the spring started to move out away from the rod, but i was turning it fully and not pushing down either

 

I think I forgot to mention that you have to pull the top of the spring down towards the harness connector and out of the groove before you turn the pintle. Or you could just push the pintle into the motor while wiggling it in a circle (as is stated to do in the service manual).

 

yeah, i was just looking at that

i just picked up a chilton manual today and its helpful

 

I'll give you a tip: If you REALLY want to get into working on your car, bite the bullet and pick up a factory service manual (I have 2). Chilton's and Haynes give some good info, but neither is specific enough for anything beyond basic repairs... Especially if and when your car starts coding.