entrig00

iTrader: (1)

Hey guys I need some help. Now before I go any further yes I did a search lol....

I just wanted to know what you guys would recommend for after market injectors with a stock engine. Any info would be great. I know that the ones that came in our camaro multi are not good.


Thanks for your help in advance.



Entrig00

86ttopbird

might want to check out the thread "ditch your stock injectors". Grab a set off a ford ranger or bronco II 2.9L and put those in. Youll be surprised at the throttle response and mileage you get. Heres a link...https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/v6/4...injectors.html

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

Pretty much any injectors except for Accels... There have been reports from guys on here who have had nothing but problems with them. And, if their injectors are anything like their ignition coils, I plan on avoiding their entire product line like the plague.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

I bought two extra sets of injectors when I had my 91 3.1. Later I bought a handful of good injectors from 3.1L FWD applications. Whenever an injector would !@#$ the bed I'd just pop in one of the extras.

Most of the aftermarket V8 performance injectors are going to be too large, or they're going to be overpriced aftermarket stock replacements.

If you want to try Ford 2.9 injectors, I've got a set of 8 listed dirt cheap in the classifieds.
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/engi...injectors.html

K-slice

iTrader: (2)

I'd stay away from everything Accel makes. To me the whole brand is ***** oriented anyway. Cheap parts, painted red to look like they're preformance...
I've been wanting to do the Ford Injector swap, but that thread seems real unclear about the whole thing..

Drew

iTrader: (58)

I don't think that thread is really that unclear at all. Like any other thread on the V6 board, it's got about 30% valid points and accurate info, and the other 70% is nonsense from people that probably shouldn't be replying because they're clueless.

The truth of the issue is that later thirdgens use Multec injectors. They have a really bad reputation, because while they're technically superior injectors to the earlier pintle style Bosch injectors, they have electrical problems. They're so bad in fact, that most places that clean and flow match injectors don't like dealing with Multecs at all. As I mentioned earlier, I drove a 3.1 daily for 4 years and I had the plenum off swapping injectors at least 5 times. It can take multiple sets of used injectors before you find 6 that even have the same resistance.

So one possible alternative is grabbing injectors from Ford which are pretty close in design to the original Bosch pintle style injectors. They're close to the same impedence, and the design is more durable. They're easy to find, and cheap. According to more reputable sources (not the V6 forum on thirdgen.org) the Ford 2.9 injectors flow 13lbs/hr at Fords 33psi, with GM's 43psi fuel pressure they should flow a bit more. So they make a decent substitute. They're shorter, just like LT1 injectors are shorter then TPI injectors, but that's not a huge problem, and can be worked around.

If you take the part number in that thread, and you cross them over to other applications and Ford part numbers, you find out that the basic injector design and specs have been in use by Ford since 1986. They've been used in 2.3L 4cyls, 2.9L 6cyls, and low output 5.0L V8's.

It just gets fuzzy because so many people on this forum talk out their rectums, when they have absolutely no frame of reference.

southbay08

We carry reman. bosch gen2 15lb injectors that would be fine for your engine. The set of (6) is $125. They come with a 3 year warranty.
You can give us a call at 516-492-6504

www.southbayfuelinjectors.com

RSFreak

I used a set of used 3800 injectors from my buddy's '98 Camaro on my 2.8L. It ran fine but I did notice a slight decrease in mileage.

DeathStarr89

iTrader: (1)

You have to match the flow rate of the injector to what the ECM is tuned for. You can go slightly smaller or bigger from stock without serious issues, But chances are that you will notice little things like hesitation and other random problems.


Multec 1 injectors are fine. Multec 2 injectors have issues as well, it's the nature of fuel injection. Nothing lasts forever.


to the OP, use only stock sized injectors. If you believe there is a problem with yours then send them to witchhunter to have them cleaned and tested.. or just clean them yourself like this guy did... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFJlT...eature=related

southbay08

if you want, send them in to us, we will check them on our bench at no charge to you.

www.southbayfuelinjectors.com
516-492-6504

K-slice

iTrader: (2)

SHortley after I bought my car it started stalling on me after it warmed up, turned out the original injectors were shorting out. The shop replaced them with some injectors out of a 3100 Buick.

jensen73110

iTrader: (4)

Take a quick look at this site:
http://www.nitrostreet.com/injectors.htm

It shows what flow rate you will need for X amount of hp. The interesting thing is it shows our stock junk to be maxed out at 144 hp. The Ford 2.9L injectors that are said to be a good swap choice are maxed at 134 hp. On the other hand, mid/late '90s fwd 3100 has 17 lb/hr and can support up to 163 hp.
Any insight from more knowledgeable peeps?

K-slice

iTrader: (2)

I wonder what the "formula" is that calculator uses. Seems pretty unscientific to me...

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

I have these in my car and they did make an immediately noticeable change to acceleration. I was skeptical as well but I got a set dirt cheap and decided to put them in and was actually quite suprised. At gm pressure these flow 14.8 lb/hr, at a bsfc of .5 that limits you to 177.6hp at 100% dc or 142.08hp at 80% dc.

The thread makes it sound like one of those "mad mods yo!" kind of things because of the number of curious newbies that responded, but I think it's a worthwhile change for otherwise stock or slightly modified stuff. Nothing complicated about the swap unless you're intimidated by changing out injectors . You just need slightly thicker o-rings. Tell the guys at the parts store you want to sort through their o-rings.

coolrimsatleast

I guess I better look for some more injectors too. I've been using accel injectors for the last 3 years, and I wonder if they're working right.

Late 90's 3100 disk type 17lb I take it. I'll see what I can find at the junkyard.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

Who knows what formula they use, this is the one I've seen around.

(BHP x BSFC)
______________ =Injector Flow Rate
number of injectors x 0.8

Where BHP is the maximum brake horse power, and BSFC is brake specific fuel consumption.

Or

Flow rate x Number of injectors x 0.8
________________________________ = HP
BSFC

BSFC can be estimated 0.5 lbs./BHP/hr. for naturally aspirated engines.

And I'm sure the formatting is going to go to hell the minute I hit submit...

entrig00

iTrader: (1)

Hey thanks for the link I didnt spot it but this helps...


Thanks again...

entrig00

iTrader: (1)

Great info thanks mav....As for my ignition coil, that is fine. My injectors are full of crap and found out 3 of them were going out. But thanks man!

entrig00

iTrader: (1)

Thanks man...

entrig00

iTrader: (1)

man bro you know your stuff....

Drew

iTrader: (58)

My memory isn't that good, I just have a bookcase stocked full of books and the time to type formulas on the forum.

86ttopbird

I am using the Ford 2.9 injectors out of a bronco II. Before i bought them, i took my ohmmeter with me and checked the resistance on them all. Gotta love U-pull yards. I got mine for $30 and its a very noticeable increase in throttle response and it idles like glass. You just buy O-rings for a 2.8 or 3.1 whichever engine youre doing the swap on. Don't use the Ford O-rings because they are smaller in diameter and will most likely leak. All you have to do is make sure you lube the O-rings before you install the injectors.

58mark

iTrader: (3)

I posted this in another thread, but really couldn't get any replies, so I'll ask it here.
My GM service manual says this'

Different injectors are calibrated for different flow rates. When ordering new injectors, be sure to order the identical part number that is inscribed on the old injector

Well crap.... yesterday I took out my fuel rail, and I put in three injectors off of an extra rail I had to replace three with cracked tips. All of the injectors have the same parts number, but they all have some different codes on them, like A4, B2, ect. even the service manual doesn't say which code goes on which injector, so should I be concerned? Did I just screw myself over by not paying attention to which ones I took out and which ones I replaced them with?

BTW, the two fual rails didn't have the same code injectors in the same place... and they were both out of a 2.8 V6

Pillsbry10

iTrader: (1)

does anyone have a pic of the fuel rail that they can post...i cant remember which one is which i have a 3.1 and a 3.4

58mark

iTrader: (3)

I have a 2.8 out and handy if that helps

Pillsbry10

iTrader: (1)

it should if you can toss a pic up

58mark

iTrader: (3)

I see you're been taken care of on another thread... hope he got what you needed

Pillsbry10

iTrader: (1)

yes thank you though...wish i hadnt torn that motor down 4 years ago lol i might remember better as to what goes where, starting to remember things though

Drew

iTrader: (58)

Early 2.8... 3.1 is the same but no provision for the cold start injector.

entrig00

iTrader: (1)

I keep hearing what your telling me and I might have to check them out. Besides hitting up a junk yard do you where I can get them at...Dealership?

Drew

iTrader: (58)

Yeah, I don't know... I did mention 4 days ago I've got a set of 8 ready to mail. The part number is different then what's listed in the threads here, but if you Google the numbers, they cross reference to the same injectors. They're dirt cheap and you could have them on your doorstep by this time next week.

coolrimsatleast

How do you tell the flow rate on these things anyway? I picked up a set from a 97 3100 today with 123000 miles. There was a 3.8 though that had a set completely exposed that would have been really easy to grab, but I didn't know what the rate of them were.

here's what's on the ones I grabbed

a4267 17109826

Does the 17 in the second number indicate the flow rate? I'm not sure where my old 15lb injectors are at, otherwise I'd look at them.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

Google is your friend. Various websites list multiple known part numbers and the published rates. Sometimes you can look up the application and replacement injectors and they'll tell you the flow rates.

Anyway, the a4267 is a date code, or production code, it's pretty much irrelevant. the 17109826 is the part number. Google that number and you might find a flow rating.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

http://injectorrx.com/rochester.html says those are 18lb/hr.
http://users.erols.com/srweiss/tableifc.htm says they're 18.15

I'll bet they flood the engine at idle. If they don't you'll probably just get terrible gas mileage.

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

Nope, they don't. I ran with a set of them for a while. Had loads of trouble starting because they leaked (caused low fuel pressure), but they didn't flood the engine, and yes, they did give horrible mileage and a code 45. Heck, I ran with a set from a 305 TPI for about two weeks... Those were even worse. I tried anything I could get my hands on when I discovered that 2 of mine needed cleaning and I couldn't afford the down time to send them out.

I think that the 3800 ones are around 22#, but don't hold me to it.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

I know for a fact that 19lb injectors are hardcore overkill and make a 2.8 run like total garbage. Back when people used to say they worked great, we tried a set. I ran a set of 3.4L DOHC injectors in my 3.1 for about a week. Some sources said they were 17lb, some said they were 22lb. It'd drive on them but flood at idle in about 30 seconds, not to mention fouling the plugs in seconds.

Without reprogramming the chip, I wouldn't recommend going much larger then stock. An AFPR isn't really a good work around either since less pressure hurts fuel atomization before it results in much reduction of fuel flow.

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

We'll see how my motor runs when I put 22 lb/hr injectors in for the nitrous. I don't think it's going to run like poo because I had larger stuff in before and it wasn't bad. I can reduce the low pw offset to bring the fuel down at idle anyway so I don't think it will be a problem.

DeathStarr89

iTrader: (1)

3.4 DOHC injectors are usually 24lb/hr @ 43.5 PSI. That's what we usually run in the stock 3500 swaps.

3400 injectors are 19lb/hr @ 43.5, small port 3100 should be 17lb/hr.


When Jbody guys do stock top end swaps with the gen3 stuff and insist on running the stock tune i usually recommend they run the small port 3100 injectors. Idle VE isn't much different between the 2 top ends and $A1 ignores the o2 at idle anyways. WOT fueling still isn't ideal but it's safer than using the stock 3.1 injectors.

I've been tuning a long time and have seen first hand what incorrectly sized injectors can do. It sounds like these ford injectors are a close enough match but still, stock sized ones are always the best idea. If you are going to change to a different size, at least get some datalogs to see how everything is doing.

You can effect the AE, PE fueling, idle fueling, decel, cold start and a few other things in a negative way very easily.

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

OP and I both have 3.1's. Yes, the 305 injectors (I believe were 19.3# but I don't have them now to verify the part number) were serious overkill, but they never flooded the engine out. I drove 400 miles home on them from school after I swapped them in, picking my sister up in Syracuse (and getting plenty lost there having to stop and go and turn around and all of that fun stuff) along the way. Yes, the exhaust note told of running severely rich, and the code 45 was another indicator, but the engine never flooded dead. The 3.4 (also 3100) fuel injectors weren't that much overkill, but I would have to put them in with a known good MAF to know if it was the MAF or the injectors throwing the code 45.

:edit: Also, between 87 and 88, when the fuel injector style changed from pintle cap to Multitec, the flow rate changed as well. My 2.8 had 523-5210 injectors, rated at 14.7 PPH, and the 17084888 Multitecs on the 88-92 V6 cars are rated at 15.4. As in here: http://users.erols.com/srweiss/tableifc.htm

entrig00

iTrader: (1)

Alright guys so I did what this guy did on this link...


....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFJlT...eature=related

So found out that one of the injectors was bad.

So its either buy some stock one or buy some from this guy...


...We carry reman. bosch gen2 15lb injectors that would be fine for your engine. The set of (6) is $125. They come with a 3 year warranty.
You can give us a call at 516-492-6504

www.southbayfuelinjectors.com



?????

K-slice

iTrader: (2)

Go to the u pull and buy some Ford 2.9 injectors, probablky alot cheaper and you may see some preformance gains.

The Ford injectors aren't an upgrade because they flow more, they're an upgrade because they atomize fuel better, or make more out of the same ammount of fuel. In terms of flow there's nothing wrong with our stock injectors, the upgrade is in quality of injection, not the ammount of fuel injected.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

I'm aware of that. I'm just giving first hand impressions of a few injector swaps that I witnessed first hand, and the results. You can draw your own conclusions from that information. Of all the injectors I ran in my 3.1, the ones that worked the best were the stock part number injectors I salvaged from Cavaliers, Corsicas, Luminas, Grand Prixs, etc. It just took several sets of injectors to make one good set, and even then at least one more failed after a few months. Fortunately we were junking FWD 3.1's like stomping aluminum cans for recycling at the time.

entrig00

iTrader: (1)

So basically I'm good with just stock also then right? Would you stick with the stock or go with ford?

Good to hear from you man...

entrig00

iTrader: (1)

Drew you still have those injectors? Where they from and how much bro?


Thanks again...

K-slice

iTrader: (2)

Stocks are basicly fine. Like I said before, the Ford's atomize fuel better thus the gain in acceleration people see with them versus their Delphi's. The other thing about our stock injectors is they are notorious for having electrical problems, mine did. So there's another reason to change them out.

entrig00

iTrader: (1)

Thanks man....

When I was cleaning all 6 of them one of them took a s*** on me ....no kidding about the electrical problem.

89-bird

Hey entrig I have been following this thread silently since you started it because I know I need to clean or replace my injectors also . If I can find a set of 2.9's I will get them but if not I am going back with some for a 2.8 or 3.1 . A few sites I went to listed the same part number for the 3.1 and 2.8 injectors in several GM cars like Drew listed in post #42 .

entrig00

iTrader: (1)

Bird!!!!

Thats all I need to hear....thanks man and was wondering how long it would take you to post on here. Hey so changed out fuel pump and man was there a crap load of rust

I'm telling you it seems like its one thing after another. I think I might just hit up Drew for those injectors. Good to hear from you man....

89-bird

Yeah rust is a killer when it's in your fuel system . I would get those off Drew if I was you and replace the o-rings with the right ones for your car like was said . And I'll let you know when I clean or replace mine how that goes . I may just replace them .

coolrimsatleast

I tried searching a little bit, but my googlefoo just wasn't there.

Hopefully 18 isn't too much then. I have a 3.4 and needed 17lb. It's annoying that these ford injectors only come in 15lb and 19lb.

Drugstore naturally only had 3cc syringes.