so even my mechanic told me on friday that my car seems to have a mind of its own. ive been having some idle problems recently. No matter what my mechanic did he couldnt get the car to idle good. he get it idling right where is should and then the idle would just spike up again. He said he was getting the voltage on the it was right around where it should be. he had his scanner plugged it and took it for a ride. the o2 was switching like it should and she seemed fine. BUT obv that didnt last for long. she just does not want to idle right. She wont even start the first time when i turn the key. Only time shell start first time is first thing in the morning. driving shes fine. maybe throttle response could be better but still fine. i also changed the oil and the spark plugs and spark plug wires. im just at a lost right now. i wish i had a list of things to check out. im starting to think the car is a lost cause and if its something big i dont have the money to put into it so ill be forced to sell. if someone could help thatd be greatly appreciated, and btw she also has a cam and 17lb injectors that wer installed by the previous owner. i know these affect it but id think youd still should be able to level out the idle even just a little?

 

how big is the cam? how much vaccuum does it pull at idle?

 

What AM91 said. And, with just the larger injectors it needs to be tuned. Combined with a cam even more so.

The idle issue may be something as simple as the IAC sticking.

RBob.

 

ok guys so i got some vids of her idling and driving. got one of her cold and one of her warm.

on the size of the cam. no idea sadly. previous owner installed.

and as far as tuning im pretty much screwed there. no one knows how to or does tuning for the 2.8s i havent found anything online or any local speedshops. if anyone knows someone who deff does let me know.

now to the interesting thing is during all this time she never threw a code but during one of my drives i hit a bump coming up and hill and she threw a code. she did last night to but this morning it was gone. and obv local autozone doesnt read a obd1 so it was useless since my aldl cable isnt working yet ether (finally figured it might be a driver issue.

 

heres the warm idle. and after driving it it pulled a code. this is sitting in park in front of my house


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Id7zS4mlTHI


heres the cold idle when i first started her up. no codes or anything. also in front of my house in park.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GC-ge...eature=channel



now it was impossible to get my code pulled because none of the shops r open on the sunday and pepboys didnt have the mechanic in with the obd1 scanner. luckliy uatozone actually had the little plug one that flashes the code. now i kinda didnt know what i was doing but im pretty sure in the beginning i pulled a code 33. then after that it pulled code 12.

code 12 means diagnostic test is working properly. but i was able to get the code 33 once and the book says its ether MAF - signal voltage or frequency is high during engine idle. or MAP- signal voltage is high during engine idle.

i looked at the MAF and lo and behold its a remanufactured part so maybe it went bad? it was also pretty dirty. but to get to the point could a bad MAF or MAP be the cause of my problems? the guy i was talking to at autozone said it sounded like it could be the FPR. since it starts fine when cold but doesnt like to when hot. what you guys think?

 

Ive been having a similar problem with my 2.8. The car wont idle correctly and stays a constant 2k RPM at idle and sometimes dips to 800 and back up. Ive been driving it the way it is for the past year though, doesnt really bother me too much unless the engine dies.

 

What's the voltage at the TPS, between the blue and black wires? You don't have a MAP, and you'll need to datalog for the MAF signal unless you have a multimeter that will measure the frequency coming from the MAF.

Chances are you have a bad MAF along with a couple of other problems.

 

im pretty sure the tps is fine because my mechanic was testing it and what not and said it was fine.

data logging aint gunna happen atm because i cant get it to work and i cant find someone who actually has done it on my type of car and ecu.

ill prob replace the MAF sometime next week and see how things go

 

The TPS may be fine, but your mechanic may not know there is a specification for voltage at closed throttle. If too high, the engine will NOT idle, no matter what you do.

 

no no he does. the reason i got to him is because he as a camaro like mine. he even told me he knows what they are set at factory

 

Okay, if you trust him (I never trust anyone but myself as they don't know all of what has been done), then I won't tell you to double check his work (because you're taking his word for it).

Pull the spark plugs. I'll bet they're black. And this fouling is one of the reasons why it takes so long to start the engine. And the result of another... Somehow, I'll bet you have excess fuel in the cylinders at hot start (vapor lock). Check the vacuum line to the FPR for fuel. Check the vac hose from the charcoal canister for fuel. Put a fuel pressure gauge on the fuel rail and pressure test for leaks. Check the color of the spark at the plugs.

 

alright i have new plugs in. like a week old. so the checking them should be easy. itll be clear if there black.

and hes a good guy. i havent payed him a dime for anything and my car has been ther all day for like 4 days. also he showed me everything he did from him hooking up the data scanner and show all the diagnostic info to anything else. and hes done a couple little things and dint charge me for labor or parts. hes earned my trust. he also knows everything about the car that i know as i hardly know everything. (problem with buying a used car) ill have this figured out soon within the weeks hopefully. the car needs some new stuff so im just going to start replacing some sensors and lines and stuff. also my brakes are really sketchy. i heard the camaro brakes have an issue with freezing up or whatever

 

kinda hard to tell but it doesn't sound like a real aggressive cam. that shouldn't be causing your problems, from the sound on the vid. I'd still check vaccuum pressure and see where it is. I would say that the maf could be the culprit.

 

Gotta love those cheapo reman MAF sensors... My car eats 'em like candy.

 

Just curious, has he made sure the timing was set correctly? If the previous owner had removed the dizzy for some reason and put it back a tooth off and/or timed wrong, this will cause boatloads of issues. Also the TPS voltage should be around .54 volts with the throttle blade closed. And yeah the reman MAF's suck. I'm going to be switching over to the 70mm Ford MAF as soon as i can find the connectors i need to hook up the ductwork. One last thing. If you start the car and let it idle. Then take the handle of a screwdriver and LIGHTLY tap on the MAF housing and see if the engine stumbles. If it does, your MAF has taken a dump on you. Also you dont need a code scanner to get codes. All you need is a paperclip bent the right way

 

yeah the little module is like the paper clip. just another tool i can add to my collection :]

thanks for the screwdriver tip. ill try that 2 morrow after work.

and yeah i was considering timing too. might have my mechanic check that since i dont have a timing light and wouldnt know how to use it lol

rockauto.com has like 5 MAF sensors new but i think it may be a crappy brand? they have the acdelco but thats 200 but i cant seem to find a new one anywhere?

also does anyone have a picture of the snorkel connected to the MAF cus the previous owner had some electrical tap wrapped around it to seal it. that also could be a problem.

oh my mechanic also said to check my oil and see if it smells like gas to see if its leaking at all and i checked today and no gas smell (thank god)

im just thinking its a combo of bad MAF and some pressure leakage in the fuel rail or injectors. doesnt seem like a too big or exspensive project.

and thanks for the help everyone. once i get this stuff done ill return the favor as i have an awesome idea that will improve the "Cold air intake" system we have stock. itll keep our stock snorkel but improve it. ill trhow ideas out once i get it all together and see if anyone else agrees it may be better.

 

The MAF is secured at the airbox by the plastic elbow, and at the other end by a rubber ring with a big hose clamp. If that ring is missing, you will have an air leak past the MAF which is allowing air that is not metered to enter the engine throwing off your air fuel ratio and most likely making it lean. This will cause you to have a lean misfire as well as idle problems. You might want to check the junkyards for that sealing ring because if theres electrical tape holding the MAF to the ductwork, that is probably your whole problem. If you are going to buy a reman MAF, get the Delco. Yes they cost more but the quality is much better. Also remember to LIGHTLY tap on the MAF, dont whack it or it will be broken lol.

 

well 200 for the delco is actually a brand new one. 200 is not much to me but i rather spend it elsewhere but i deff dont wunna buy reman so ill end up buying that one prob. but yeah i mean the MAF fits into the snorkel but thers no clamp or anything that goes around it to seal it like the clamp on the other side? ill take a pic 2 morrow. and yeah dont worry i wasnt going to wack it lol

 

No clamp? Well I think that may be what your problem is. Check out the junkyards, I am sure you can dig one up dirt cheap there. You need to have a tight seal in the MAF ductwork or you will have all sorts of problems. And yeah spring for the Delco. Don't get the cheapo remans because you will be buying one every few months.

 

the first pic is a pic i found looks like i has something attached to it. the other to are my car see where its tapped?

my MAF fits in the snorkel theres just nothing there to secure it. hence why the tape. but i still need a new MAF its garbage looking lol

 

Yup the clamps are missing. You need these. I was at the Pep Boys today and saw those clamps there. Pick yourself up a couple and put them on and see if your problem goes away. If it doesnt, then try tapping on the MAF.

 

yeah it only has the clamp on the engine side. nothing on the snorkel side. ill get that sorted out sometime this week too. thanks guys you have give me so much help

 

That would be why they keep crapping out.. MAF sensors don't like any cracks or breaks in the air box between the air filter(s) and the throttle body. I blew 2 of them, one factory and a reman, with a broken elbow (Camaros generally don't have the elbow as they have space between the hood and the radiator support for their CAI box). BTW, those reman ones, on a Bird, come with undersize elbows... I haven't had one yet that doesn't break when you go to put it in the proper position on the air filter can.

:edit: Not having a clamp on the air box side of the MAF isn't going to matter much... As long as the air is going through the MAF, it doesn't care where it's coming from. It's when there is a break in the air tubing between the MAF and the TB that things get screwy because the engine is taking in "unmeasured" air and the ECM can't compensate for air it doesn't know is entering the engine. The current MAF is shot...

 

So guys I did the little screwdriver trick on the maf and can't really tell if it's shot. As ofcourse when I did it the idle was screwy already. I'll try today if her idle levels out which it seems to have the past two days. I also went to the junkyard and got that clip anyways. I don't want crappy electrical tape in my engine bay.

But I was thinking. These "17lb injectors" that are in my engine. Who knows where there even from? Who knows if ther even working? I'm thinking I should pull em out and test the resistence or whatever it is that you test on them. Aldo my friend mentioned maybe I should do a compression check. Make sure the car is intact running on all cylinders. Nut I'm thinking I have injectors not work because I have to pump the gas to get her started fast. So it seems a lack of fuel not an adbundant of it. So maybe tere not leaking but just not work. And if there not working causing some cylinders to run bad would that cause the idle to be bad too? Pretty much im going to find some stock 15lb injectors and put them in. There just so exspensive idk where to get em. All I know is the 17lbs could be completly off on what the car needs.

 

From looking at that video your oil pressure looks kinda low unless these cars are supposed to be like that my oil pressure gauge doesn't work so i cant compare.

Edit: The video im looking at is the warm idle. The cold idle seems to show it where it should be.

 

Ok guys so like two things. The cars idling seems to be mint now. She idles right at a thousand. And the every now and the surge to like 750-800 (gotta be the cam ) BUT the idle seems fine now. There wer once or twice the idle would spike to like 2500 when started but I think that has stopped. And I haven't even replaced or touched anything only thing is I went to the pick and pull and got that clamp I was missing. She's still having the start up problem but I ordered new injectors from southbay injectors ( http://www.southbayfuelinjectors.com...o_2_8l_V6.html ) yeah I know it says Audi but I was insured by southbay injectors these wer what I'm looking for and I'm going to trust them.

Now the question. Ive never done injectors so what's some stuff I should know when I do it? And hints or tips or things I shouldn't forget. I gota go find my haynes manual and just wait for te injectors to come in.

Then once there installed I'll see what problems still exist. Finally getting somewhere.

Oh and she feels alot better driving for some reason. Maybe the fuel injector cleaner I put in did something haha. Idk yesterday I pulled up next to a firebird. Felt like a scene out of a movie waiting for that light to go green haha

 

Yup.

Bend the paperclip to a U shape and stick it in the 2 top right holes.

 

Just have a 10mm socket handy. Also new gaskets.