I'm throwing around ideas right now for my next project... I have a 86 camaro that was originally a v6 car, converted it over to a 350 but left stock suspension.

My question is what is necessary to swap in a grand national motor (along with all the accessories and piping?) I'm finding these motors with full harness and computer for a fair price and the 200r4 is a relatively cheap trans to get my hands on. Not concerned with the obvious things like trans mount.

 

I think your best bet would be to compare your specs with the TTA ( Turbo Trans Am ) My dad has a GN and is pouring cash into it. His mechanic has a GN and a TTA. He said that there was an issue with GN heads getting in the way of some things so GM used an alternative head for the TTA. I'm just passing what little I know since nobody has responded. However, could be a good starting point.

 

Personally if you're looking for a powerful v6 there are other easier options, like a 3.4 or a 3500. Otherwise I imagine pretty much everything off a donor car.

 

That would be wrong, there is nothing like the turbo 3.8 Buick engines.
Which can handle up to 750HP with little mods. After that you want the aftermarket billet block.

 

I'm not talking about power making being easy, retrofitting a 90* v6 into an F-body is every bit a PITA that dropping a v8 in is, in which case imo you might as well drop a v8 in, or go with a 60/6 that will go in a lot easier.

 

dropping a v8 into these cars is a PITA? you just must not know what you are doing....


a motor swap in these cars takes a few hours at a lazy pace if you know what you're doing.

 

You're both missing my point, my point is, if you're only after say, 400 hp, its a lot easier to just put in a 3.4 or fwd 60/6, then going and getting an entirely new drivetrain, and retrofitting it. Now if you're after crazy hp levels, then yes, its probably necessary, but most people don't need or want 750 hp. But think if they want more the 60/6 is worthless.

 

i think you are missing the point, swapping in a 2.8/3.1/3.4 is WORTHLESS! and no 3.4 is going to make anywhere NEAR 400hp, without a boatload of nitrous, or alot of BOOST.

a 3.8 gn/tta will do that with just the boost turned up and minor bolt ons.

its NO easier to swap in a 3.4 or fwd 3.8, then it is to swap in any other common GM based engine, its foolish however to choose that 60* JUNK that GM spit out.

To the OP,its been so long, but i beleive you need to use buick lesabre FWD 3.8 heads for a GN 3.8 swap, research before hand, but its along those lines, i seem to recall there being some sort of strut tower/frame rail clearance issues on the pass side for the turbo mount or something, thats why GM went with the different head.


Check out turbobuick.com and research this ALOT before you procede.

 

A 3.4 is a direct bolt in replacement, so yeah, I would say that's easy. And a 3.4 hybrid could make 400 hp without boost, and boost does wonders, a near stock 3.1 can easily make 400 hp with a turbo, and the FWD engines can at least use the same transmission, so yeah, once again its still easier even with a fwd 60/6.

But once again, it all depends on your power goals, pocketbook, and resources, I'm only trying to make the point, that if you have relatively modest power goals, you shouldn't altogether rule out working with what you have since it IS easier, and cheaper.

 

no 3.4 is going to make anywhere near 400 hp...without either having a HUGE CAM, and being revved to 7500, or without boost/n20.

the heads do not flow enough, lacks cubic inches..etc etc.

and a near stock 3.1 is NOT going to make 400 hp with a turbo, nor would a 3.4, you are talking about MORE then doubling the engines power output, it wont happen... its possible{with ALOT of boost} but, it wont be reliable, and wont be cheap.


THE easiest, and cheapest thing he can do, is to throw away that boat anchor 60* v6 junk, and go to a REAL motor....but if you read his post, you will notice he has no motor, car was originally a v6, then v8 swapped.


Honestly, since its v8 swapped already, id stick with v8, GN swaps arent cheap because there motors hold value.

Refer to my sig, my combo makes awesomepower, gets 24+ mpg hiway, runs 12s on motor,deep 11s on nitrous{would run 10s on slicks EASY}, and its a basic cheap combo to duplicate.

 

Yes, the cam would have to be quite large, but it's doable, and you're wrong about the 3.1, cam, and porting will get it there easier than you might think, just look at project89's car.

 

obviously its HARDER then you realize....


i only see numbers 130+ rwhp short of your "400 hp is easy" claims...

with enough money, of course its doable, but its also foolish, for the same money, and id bet LESS money and far less effort/labor...you could have more power, better reliability, and far more potential.


My thrown together junk 350 puts down 30 rwhp more, with basically all factory GM parts, still keeping TPI, next month with the larger cam/intake swap i fully expect around 360/375 rwhp on motor.

 

I had frame rail problems clearance problems when I dropped a big block into my iroc, we basically notched the rails and enclosed them, long story short it held up fine... but if it requires more clearance then the big block did, I don't think boxing off the frame rail will work.

I guess if I can't find any solid information on this topic I'll just have to figure it out on my own, I'm 20 years old (so I'm not as experienced as some of you) but I have a lot of experience with fabrication and my old man will help out. Worse case scenario the motor goes into something else.

 

i did a bit more research, looks like they used mid 80s lesabre heads, and the TTA shortblocks had different pistons to keep CR the same as the gn..

heads were used because of clearance issues for A/C, so it might be ok to use GN heads if you dont intend on using AC.

 

Can I get a link to that?
If the only reason they switch heads is to retain AC, I will yank the AC out. I'm not interested in building another V8, I have a pretty fun one already. I am positive I want to give it a go with the little turbo cars.

 

Yes, the TTA heads were different than the GN/GNX/Turbo T-type cars. And IIRC, a different turbo was used as well.

I'll keep looking for info on this.

 

I found a link to answer all my questions just in case anybody else is interested... it's actually been answered right here on this site.
https://www.thirdgen.org/buick-3.8L-...ne-swap-f-body

What I am getting out of it:
Pull the AC and buy the adapter plate to mate the GN motor to the 700R4. This saves a lot of time and work, retain the stock torque arm and trans mount. Other then that the only real issue seems to be the exhaust because they are claiming the TTA manifolds have been discontinued and the GN manifolds will not work.

 

I believe that the reason for the different exhaust manifolds is due to the different heads. By keeping the GN heads the GN manifolds will work.

What GM did on the TTA for the torque arm was to mount it to the cross member. There are aftermarket ones that are mounted this way. So using the 200-4R is still possible with that type of set up.

There is a guy on here with a thread that did put a GN engine/trans into a Camaro. Not sure if I could find it.

RBob.

 

Here is the thread I was thinking of:

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/v6/4...urbo-swap.html

RBob.

 

all the piping looks like it's going to be a very tight fit... thanks for that link.

 

You can go to my web site, I took lots of pics to show how I did my swap.
And dont miss the V8 at all.

www.aaperformance.org

 

We have done quite a few conversions, and my '84 anniversary is getting it done right now as I write this. The only things to be concerned about (if you want it to look factory), is the motor mounts (which are $300.00), and the tranny crossmember. The TTA donwpipe is $1000.00. If you want air conditioning then you will need to run the FWD heads, exclusively. If your pulling the air conditioning, then you can run the standard heads. The stock turbo is exactly the same on the TTA, although I would definitely recommend upping it to either a T49 (which looks virtually identical), or the T44. Also, the TTA harness is different from the Grand Nationals, in that it is much longer. If your looking to just run the LC2 engine the easy way, then just get a 700R4 trans adapter from Jegs and sandwhich it in between the engine and your tranny, make your own motor mounts for cheap, make your own downpipe, and simply run a Grand National 7148 harness routed whatever way that you want it to. The internals of the stock LC2 engine are CAST, and they will not hold up to that much horsepower. Depending on the tune, some guys have been very lucky with controlling detonation, but then again most guys have simply grenaded them....

 

The GN setup is proven to make a ton of power however to up the fun factor i'd copy a Sy/Ty setup.

 

I'm doing that swap right now. Great project to do, different than the usual.

PS, the stock Gn heads clear just fine, as well as the stock exhaust maniofolds. The heads just don't fit with Air Conditioning. I even used a GN downpipe. I just had to modify it a bit at the one end. Nothing an exhaust shop can't do.

 

Auto / Manual Trans?? Sounds like a cool build. Link please! So I wondered my whole life why the GN only came with a automatic. Short answer.... It's quicker and looses less boost. I have read about GN folks swapping in a manual trans. I have heard less than good about the outcome (performance wise). However, for a manual trans freak like me, I wouldn't take it any other way!

 

Boat anchor? Junk?! Why I aughta!!

Lol, seriously though any 60* with iron heads is junk. The iron heads/induction are pure junk. Newer fwd heads/induction are a different story though. And as far as durability is concerned mine's actually suprised me with what I've been able to do to it so far. Here.

I thought about throwing a syclone motor in mine awhile ago, that would make a fun project. A guy that comes to my shop has an otherwise stock one he's turned up the boost a little on. I was more than impressed with how hard it launched.

 

I believe Neil is running a 700R4 w/Jegs adapter plate. If your looking to run the car at the track then an automatic is definitely the way to go. Even if your building one to have fun with out on the highway, the 200R4 maintains 4th gear at wot, and will survive. My buddy Shawn bought a Blue T-Type once that ran high tens w/ease w/twenty pounds of boost, in which they dubbed the exotic killer, because nothing hung with it out on the highway, nothing lol. A manual trans will work, but its really not needed though....

http://www.streetfire.net/video/full...d-i_124110.htm

 

The link that RBOB posted earlier is mine. Still working away on it as the finances allow. My car uses a 700r4 with an adaptor plate from Jegs. I chose to stick with the auto because the car originally had an auto. I have heard that these engines don't do too well with manuals. Not sure of the reason, I think it has something to do with losing boost pressure during gear changes.

 

can somebody help me in how to set up the gn engine into my 89 camaro. i have regal motor mounts but how does it sit in the frame? what do i need?