bl85c

iTrader: (2)

I will be updating this thread periodically though the coming months as I put this motor though as much torture as possible before it pops. The solenoids I'm using limit me to a 175 shot, but if I hit that and it keeps chugging along I may go larger. Ultimately the injectors (from a DOHC 3.4) will be the final say limiting me to about 350hp total (a 200 shot) at 90% DC, not that I think it will see that . I'll be controlling the shot via the egr tables in my ecm so I don't instantly nuke the motor. Might play with methanol injection as well. So here's the setup.





Solenoids & 'hidden' purge aimed at passenger side.


Nozzle & fpr junction.


And bottle.

chevyracingrox

I like where the nozzle is placed. good idea covering it all up too. nobody will know what they're looking at. why the sudden need for destruction? got a nice 3.4 lined up?

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

I have a hybrid motor waiting to go in, and I wanted to do something fun with this motor before I got rid of it in addition to getting a final answer to how much these motors will put up with.

1st attempt ended up with a roasted plug as detailed in this thread. Made a few changes since then including cooler backcut plugs, additional nitrous nozzle ahead of maf as pictured above and NO WOT SPARK lol. Only 3 degrees but that was a mistake. I'm not going to make another attempt until I have the nitrous under ecm control.

92camarorv6

lol im runing a 75 shot out of the hole us 13 drags way can hold my car i ran a 18 some on the gas and a 16.12 off i fell relly bad i need a pois

Drew

iTrader: (58)

A little cheap black spray paint from Walmart and most people would never see the install. I don't really like the idea of a dry setup. For the little bit of time it saves during the install, it gives up a lot of flexibility and safety. In this case (where the goal is to kill the motor) it doesn't really matter. You've already had more issues then I had with my 3.1 on a wet kit.

All that said, Nitrous was by far the best thing I ever did to my 3.1. It should be lots of fun on a 125-150hp shot.

DeathStarr89

iTrader: (1)

in for carnage pics..

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

Well in retrospect placing the nozzle behind the maf was about the worst thing I could've done so it's really my fault. I should've taken a page from every other maf nitrous kit out there and put it ahead of the maf. The potenital for a nitrous backfire was actually what lead me away from a wet kit. That and the price . The potential's still there somewhat with a dry kit but atleast there's no way for raw fuel to puddle in the manifold.

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

Got it running under the ecm now and it's really fun changing how the power comes in. With the right curve it almoast feels like it's turbocharged. And with the table set up properly I can drop the d.c. after a shift or when I romp on it to keep it out of detonation (and broken parts). I may be upgrading the fuel pump and injectors alot sooner than I thought and going for a larger shot. Also rigged the bottle opener to the purge button to open/purge and close it using the maf burnoff pin on D11. Power for the opening relay is from the fuel pump so I can purge it after shutoff without reopening the bottle.

project89

iTrader: (1)

u wont need a new fp till about 350 ish crank hp.
u should be good upto a 175-200 shot and hell those stock pistons will take the power look at my motor is basically a stock hyper piston in mine and im making over that power wise, just dont let it detonate

b

Drew

iTrader: (58)

If you were to run the nozzle in front of the maf, you'd have the cars computer AND the NOS gizmo increasing the fuel pressure. In effect you'd run extra rich.

Dry kits can backfire in the intake too... From my perspective anyway, the big thing is not hitting the nitrous at too low a RPM.

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

Ya, that's why I added another line from the fuel pressure tee and ran it ahead of the maf. Some is ahead of the maf, some through the fpr vac line and most through the nozzle. So far it it looks a little rich but pretty damn close to where it is without nitrous.

I'm going to need the pump for the new motor anyway so I figure this is a good time to do it.

Does anyone know of a reason I shouldn't just drill out the passages in the solenoid to get more flow out of it? NOS claims the older style I have only flow enough for a 175 shot.

musclecar70sfan

iTrader: (1)

subscribing! i wanna see what happens!

ericjon262

we want big boom!

chvy

What would be the point of methanol injection on an no2 engine? It's a waste of time and money. Nitrous cools the intake charge better than meth, and running that much no2 along with methanol you're going to need to shove even more fuel into the engine without the benefit of more power... that means more fuel that you already cant supply at the expense of losing that fuel simply for cooling purposes.... which nitrous will do a better job of while adding hp... see the ludicrousness of the situation

At that point you could've just added a pill that was 25hp larger and kicked back timing another 1*. There's only so much a little v6 can take, no amount of meth or extra/high octane fuel will help

Meth injection is for forced induction, high heat applications where the intake charge needs to be cooled. It's also a cheaper alternative to race/high octane gas, but not a substitute. -> most any engines with meth and nitrous will also have forced induction

Project 3.4 Camaro

I 2nd the notion.

pontiacguy1

You are taking this thing WAAAY past what I did on mine. I only used the 75 HP setup, which was fine, and I also had no problems hitting the nitrous off the line. It really woke my 3.1 liter up, and I have no regrets about doing it.

I also want to see how your 2.8 handles things.

chvy

pontiac guy - Do you still use the bottle? I'm curious how long it's lasted on the 75 shot

chvy

how much does one of these engines cost to have the bottom end fully built with forged internals? That'd be pretty cool to have a 300hp 2.8/3.1 on demand... (it's not for me, but I think it's cool anyway)

Project 3.4 Camaro

That depends on a lot...the pistons run about 500-600, if you buy a new crank, looking at around 1k, connecting rods...if you shell out for titanium as much as 3k.....and this is without piston rings, lets say 200 there, main bearings, cam bearings, windage tray and crank scraper for good measure while you're at it is probably another 400. And you don't need boost or nitrous to get 300 hp out of one of these, I'm sure some will see this as a controversial statement, but it's one I plan to prove correct If I can ever come up with the money to finish the thing, Can't get a loan either (no credit ftl).

chvy

So about 1000$+ cost of nitrous? That's not too bad

300 n/a hp? Are you going to try this on the 3.1 or 3.4? How would you go about getting that much power out of it?

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

Titanium rods?? Ever heard of rods shattering on NSX's? They're suprisingly brittle. Super strong up to the breaking point though. Yout could put together a forged bottom end cheaper than that- the rods are already forged, 3500 crank is forged ($100) plus machining to turn the rod dowels down ($150), you can get decent bearings for more like $100 and some pistons for $500.

You can hit 300+ n/a by putting together what we call a 'hybrid'- fwd 3100/3400/3500 induction & heads on a rwd block. Purple82TA is swapping the motor from his cavy(?) into his 'maro, and some day firstfirebird and I will finish our 3x00 motors LOL.

I was thinking of adding a little methanol/water for a cushon against detonation if I manage to get a really big shot through it. Methanol & water do more for detonation suppresion than just increasing octane, they even chamber temps & cool combustion as well.

I'm still trying to find injectors to get things rolling. I found a DOHC 3.4 at the jy but some ***** ripped into it and bent the fuel rail back to grab 1 injector. They're $75 ea new. So I have 5 of those injectors and noone around town has another DOHC 3.4. Might look for a couple turbo volvo 2.3's to snag some 25 lb/hr injectors.

pontiacguy1

No, I no longer have the nitrous on the car. I had it on there from 1996 through 2009. I didn't use it for about the last 2 or 3 years that it was on the car, though. It was an adjustable kit that I set for 75hp because I felt that it would be a good gain without much risk to it. It worked really great, and my engine responded well to it. I ran a lot of bottles of N20 through my car, and never had any problems. Once the car got about 200K miles on it, I quit using it. I just didn't want to risk breaking something on my daily driver, unlike Bl85c who is intentionally going to blow some stuff up!

I sold my nitrous kit... to Bl85c! I hope he has as much fun with it as I did!

Project 3.4 Camaro

I know how to build a strong bottom end, by mentioning titanium rods, I was only pointing out the fact that it really just depends on how far you want to go and what your budget is, as for stock rods, yes they're forged and thus strong, but they also redline at 7k, If I ever get to finish my hybrid build(I decided to rebuild stock for the time being) I'm going to need stronger rods because I'll raise redline to 8k.

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

Well volvo injectors are a bust too. Low impedence. Grrr...

pontiacguy1

Anything new to report on Nitrous Devastation?

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

Injectors are all that are holding me back. I've taken it to 125 shot and it's starting to lean out with the F1ZE injectors. Need to get the car prepped for tech inspection as well.

Killert

iTrader: (9)

I have a Set of L32 (3800 Engine) Injectors with only 38K miles on them. I think they are rated at 31.5 lbs/hr. I'll let them go cheap if you need them. You'll need to tune for them though, The ran my 3.4 so rich it would barely run.

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

There's a supercharged buick in my local yard I'm going to check first then I'll get back to you. Not sure if it's new enough to have the right injectors.

Killert

iTrader: (9)

Okay, Thats a L67 Engine probably and should have 36.5lbs/hr, FWIW

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

Found an scc bonneville with injectors unmolested- 28 lb/hr. Idles a little choppy but I have the fuel I need now. I'll have to find a way to force an open loop idle. Had to add an .04" shim to the nos regulator gizmo like nos reccomends to keep the fuel up too. So that's a 175 shot and still kicking.

ericjon262

We want big boom.

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

Ok, 200 shot so far and it still hasn't croaked. IT MUST DIE! So I'm turbocharging it. Starting at 10 psi & a 35 shot to get the turbo spooled and working my way up on both the nirtous & boost until a head lifts, detonation or stuff just flies apart! Pics soon.

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

6 hacked up volvo downpipes later here it is. It's still not quite done, started it up today and found a couple leaks from the fittings on the -ahem- former grease pump whip that now oils the turbo. Sounds nice though, I may skip fabing up the rest of the exhaust and leave it open. The passenger manifold is from a cavy with the flange flipped upsidedown & rewelded. The driver side exhaust passes under the oil pan following the original exh. route then tucks up under the passenger manifold & merges together just before the turbo. Most of the induction is crap from the victim volvos, but I was actually quite satisfied with how well it tucked into place with only minor interference to the upper radiator hose. Only $130 in it so far not counting expendibles like saw blades & welding wire. Still need to add a BOV, some heat shielding, and rig the nitrous to come on automatically @ 6 psi. And yes, the oil drainback tube is an egr pipe LOL.

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

.

SLP-GTA

iTrader: (1)

I have to give you credit, you go out of your way to blow $hit up.... keep up the good work, and report back your findings

musclecar70sfan

iTrader: (1)

very nice 2.8 death machine lol. What 0-60 times are you running with the turbo with and without nitrous?

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

Good comments, funny stuff.

Don't know times yet, I just finished it (except BOV) a couple days ago so I'm still messing around with the tune- and trying to figure out why some code I wrote for the power adder version of $6E isn't doing what I want. Spark limited for some reason. The nitrous is actually what I'm using for an intercooler. Comes on @ 6psi unless I enable it sooner.

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

Awesome stuff!

To the comment earlier about the limits of a gen1 v6 block, you will be there soon

For an ultimate 60* engine, you can get away with far less than $1000 and have a reliable motor, just use the 3400 block with it's 4 bolt mains - if you had a little extra to spend, use a 3500 crank turned to SBC rod pins, SBC h-beam rods, and spend the $600-900 for forged pistons and you would have something near bullet-proof.

86transam.man

iTrader: (3)

Have you blown yourself up yet? I'm in to see how much more it can take.

duckmanquacker

I'm deffinitely interested in this as I have a 2.8 and 2 3.4's. KABOOM!!

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

15psi so far and nothing yet. Alot more fun to drive though!

Gumby

TAG

musclecar70sfan

iTrader: (1)

15 psi is obviously not enough if you haven't puked up a piston yet.... WE WANT BIG BOOM! hahaha

88ZNX

I blew the top and TB off my super ram perging the system, not a prity sight. Would that be The Garden of the Gods in your backgrond?

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

No, that's redrocks park just behind the ampitheater. Tons of fun plowing through the twisties there, except when there's someone parked taking pictures in the middle of the road! I don't visit on weekends anymore...

duckmanquacker

Yeah let me guess the people parked in the middle of the road are cussing you out for almost hitting them. they should have their driving privilidges

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

Didn't say I was blameless. We're both mutually stupid.

Project 3.4 Camaro

Still trying to figure out how it is my stock 2.8 with only 116k has a 4 inch crack in the block yet most of the damn things are near impossible to break...

Dante93GTZ

iTrader: (5)

I would strongly encourage a hard pipe to your throttle body. Those soft lines flex/vacuum down like crazy under boost.

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

Not really concerned about it. The objective is to blow it up after all...

Speaking of cracks the hot side housing has a nice large crack ready to split in half. Guess that's what I get using a junkyard turbo. The motor won't die but the turbo will. Guess I'll just have to get a larger turbo.