Well, since I have a lot of time on my hands, and most of the parts, I've decided to tear down the engine and inspect it's condition. Yesterday, I pulled the top end off of the engine. I found a couple of loose intake manifold bolts, but not too loose, hardly any built-up crud in the lifter valley, and that the cylinders look pretty nice. Using one of my old head gaskets, I put one of the 3100 heads on the block, so that I could hopefully figure out the pushrod situation. I removed 2 of the rocker studs from one of the old heads, and I have them in the #1 cylinder. I'm going to try to get a set of 93-95 3100 pushrods so I don't have to screw with measuring the length I need. I have a couple pics. Yes, everything is dirty. The heads will probably be cleaned by a machine shop (going to have the 3400 intake valves put in and the whole head checked for problems) before anything comes together. The upper plenum I need will be here in a couple days.

Here's the planned setup. I'm keeping my stock pistons with their 12cc dish. An upper end from a 1998 Malibu 3100 will be put on, giving me roughly 13:1 compression with stock .040" head gaskets (depending on the calculator used). 1.76" intake valves will be installed instead of the current 1.72" valves, driven by 1.6:1 rocker arms powered by a Comp Cams CL-16-233 (.440 and 260* on both valves) camshaft. I'm planning on using the RKSport 3.4 4th gen headers, P/N 01096435 (unless someone can give me a reason why these headers won't fit minus the y-pipe, which I won't be using ) with 1.75" primaries. The rest of the exhaust? We'll see. And my T5 will probably get rebuilt, possibly using a V8 5th gear set (better highway mileage).

The front end will be dropped a minimum of an inch, as removing the 700R4 and the A/C has left the front end higher than the back. My stock springs will still be installed in the rear, as they already sag a half inch. All suspension bushings will be replaced with polyurethane, as the rubber ones are shot to pieces anyways. The LCAs, track bar, and torque arm will all be replaced, along with the shocks and struts (rear shocks are shot anyways, I can compress them by hand and they won't return). May or may not put a posi in the rear axle, depending on my budget. Fuel pump will be replaced with a V8 pump, or maybe an external pump with a carbed sending unit. Again, depending on the budget. Fuel tank is currently out of the car as well, to be cleaned, sealed and rust-proofed.

BTW, anyone needing V6 parts, speak now or forever hold your peace as I'm planning on taking the heads and such to the recycler. Besides the parts from this engine, I have a 2.8 crank and 2 con rod/piston assemblies without rings. The heads need work (valve guides or seals leak oil into the chambers when cold). I'm looking for 93-95 3100 pushrods, from a non-roller cam engine.

 

Another hybrid started. Looks like this is picking up steam. When I deshrouded my heads it increased the volume to 30cc's. That will drop your compression by roughly 1/2 a point.

 

Got the upper plenum about an hour after posting... I just ordered a set of pushrods from a 95 non-roller engine about ten minutes ago and hope to have them here next week. I'm curious as to what the hybrid guys are running for head gaskets and spark plugs. I've been looking at a pair of $45 FelPro MLS head gaskets, P/N 1029, but I'm hoping for something cheaper that will work just as good. I currently, well, not now, but I had a set of FelPro HS8699PT2 head gaskets on there. Keep in mind I'm shooting for 13:1 compression (and don't plan on dropping it). I'll probably end up using a MegaSquirt, even though I want to keep my MAF.

 

I just used felpro's cheapie gaskets. MLS is the typical choice though for longevity & reuse. Double check your gasket thickness. Mine were actually .052" instead of the spec .04", which actually wasn't a bad thing considering I have 0 deck clearance.

 

Got the pushrods yesterday and put them in, with the old rocker arms and studs on the #1 cylinder. I tested the rods with the 3x00 rocker setup, no dice... One rod is too short and the other is too long. I guess I'll be using adjustable valves and I'll have to get a rocker stud kit or something so I can use 1.6:1 roller rockers.

:edit: And yes, I know everything's still dirty. I have the heads on the block right now merely to protect the cylinders from anything bad that could get in there as I have already tested the valve setup. Once the rear quarter panel has been replaced, maybe I'll be able to afford a large bucket of Purple Power or something to soak the heads and crud in, and I'll have pulled the engine besides (no hoist as of right now and I don't think anyone I know has one).

 

Denatured alchol is cheap and will strip carbon.

 

Hey Maverick what do you need out of the heds you want to get rid of and do you have a 2.8 throttle body in good shape ie no slop in the shaft and a good rubber intake piece . If so how much to ship this stuff to 37863 ?

 

Will the denatured alky strip off all of the grease, grime, and general crap off of all of the parts?

89, I'm taking the rockers, studs, and nuts off of the heads and leaving the rest (including the valves and springs... I'll even throw in the pushrod guides. There is a broken bolt in the #5 exhaust manifold mount, top hole. And, like I said before, I'm 99% sure these need a valve job (another reason I'm getting rid of the heads) because the engine mysteriously drops a quart of oil at 2000 miles. I do have a good 2.8 TB with working IAC and TPS. I removed it when I junked the 2.8 plenum 3 years ago due to a problem with the plenum (metal fatigue). I don't know if I will be keeping the bellows or not as of yet, as I still need to find the right size reducing coupler for the air intake I'm building to mount it to the TB.

 

Let me know something on all that and we'll go from there .

 

Just get a bucket & soak your heads in it. It'll strip most of the grime away without having to scrub. You'll need to chisel the rest off.

 

Well, I went out today and found some stuff at Home Depot. It's a gallon of commercial solvent that is supposed to be diluted 6:1. I figure this will do the trick. If not, there's a big bucket of stuff right next to it.

 

Goodluck, should be interesting what you come up with with all of your spare parts and know how you have laying around!

 

Funny you should mention that... Anyone need an ECM? I only have about six spares. No 302 ECMs yet, but I do have a 727, 2 730's, a 16149396, and a 16196401 (the latter 2 being for a 3.4 DOHC, one being MFI and the other being SFI).

I think soon enough I'll have a whole car minus the frame, doors, and hatch in my garage. I'm looking for a way to drop the front suspension with the engine and trans attached (about the only way I'll get the engine out, I suppose). If I can't do that, I'm going to leave the engine and trans, but the front suspension and steering systems will be coming out.

 

I'm still interested in that tach, I get paid Friday, hopefully I can send you a money order by Saturday.

 

And it's still right here, 3 feet away from me, in the box.

 

Thanks again, sorry its taken me so long, I've been to hell and back with my summer drivability issues this year!

 

At least your car is running... If I hadn't found the mess in the right quarter, I'd still be driving mine . Good news is that the body should end up in better shape and the engine should get almost another 100 HP...

 

I'd definitely trade a few weeks off for my car with a better body and another 100 horses under the hood....I think I finally got the 3.1/700-R4 combo running pretty good like it should, either I was having hesitation/ rough idle problems with the engine or I was having hesitation/ rough take off/ hard shifting problems with the transmission.

I think I'll be starting work too hopefully, paint is on the list, and if I come up with further funds, transmission rebuild with a shift kit/ Corvette servo, you know what everyone else does with a rebuilt 700-R4. I think the engine should be good for at least a few more thousand miles, and by that I mean 50K+. Its original and only has 84K on it, it does pretty good. All of its problems have been electrical more or less, injectors/ harnesses/ sensors, and the like wise.

 

remove the front subframe with engine and suspension still attached.i might grab the 2.8 intake from you if i can locate another throttle body.

 

Not a few weeks... More like over a YEAR or so, at the least. I'm hoping to have the quarter done by September or early October at the latest (want it done BEFORE winter). I plan on spending the winter building a MegaSquirt and using that. And then I should have the time and money to collect the remaining parts so maybe I can get SOMETHING put back together by the summer. I already haven't had a car since the beginning of May

Dropping the front crossmember isn't as easy as it sounds if you have nothing but a basic floor jack. I'd prefer at least a transmission jack, something with some width to it.

BTW, I have both a 2.8 AND a 3.1 TB... But no 2.8 intake plenum. I junked that towards the beginning of the year.

 

Oh, and I thought of another 3100 setup question:

Heater lines. I live in NY. I can live without the A/C (which is why I deleted it) with the T-tops, but I can't go without the heat. I'm wondering if anyone has completed 3x00 pics with the heater lines set up so I know what I need to get to run the fitting from the driver's side to the passenger's side where the transfer pipe and control valve is. I've already removed that long pipe that runs from one end of the manifold to the other, and I plan on putting either the second CTS or a cup plug in there (plug will have sleeve installer used on it so it will NEVER come out... good to something like 4000 PSI, used on cylinder block sleeves).

 

Heater lines should be simple. You can route one line from the water pump the original way and the other line on the backside of the lim is right at the heater core. Just put that pipe back on... if it hasn't been mashed.

 

Oh, it's been mashed. And I think it's either in a garbage bag or it went to the scrapyard in the same container I plan on soaking the engine parts in (scrap left the container). And I kind of NEED the heater control valve as it's the only way I have right now of turning the damn heat OFF. When I first bought the car, I adjusted the temperature control door in the heater module... It needed a little more adjustment, so I went to give it some, and the damn lever broke off. I have the door jammed in the ful hot position, so the only way to turn the hot air off is to cut the coolant flow to the core. I don't know if the other car in the junkyard has a compatible module or not (half the dash has been smashed in it so getting there would be pretty easy, but it's one of those non-A/C cars with the separate levers for the side vents).

I suppose I could try gently bending the one I have or hooking a piece of hose up to the heater outlet at the manifold. I already bought a connection for that when the crap clip in the 3.1 heater hose adaptor broke and leaked a couple years ago, but I never put it in.

 

Btw kerosene is also great for cleaning parts up. And I hear you on having your car down for a year....Bought mine september 22 last year and am still not driving it....worst part is my DD crapped out on me like a month ago....today me and the camaro are getting towed to my mom's house where the 3.4 is waiting for it. Hoping to have it roaring again by saturday if everything goes smoothly....wish me luck =/

 

Going to bring this back as I need some advice:

Finally got the compression numbers right in my Dyno2000 program (some reason wants negative deck height at TDC numbers with dished pistons but not flat ones). Using head flow numbers taken from 60DegreeV6, I've done some calculating with the small port heads, and also done some searching for a few cam profiles from Comp, Crane, Elgin, and others. Looks like they are all reasonably close in peak numbers, even to the stock cam. Probably not true, but I have a couple other questions:

1. What does the profile look like for the Delta 260H, including opening and closing points?
2. Would I be better off putting the stock parts back on for the moment and breaking in the new cam, should I get one, before I go all out and hook up the MS and the hybrid parts? Or should I throw the hybrid parts on, tune it, and then break in the new cam?
3. I'm STILL looking for input on spark plugs for hybrids.

 

1.5 rocker arm
212 duration @ .50
.440
112 LSA
intake open -3.4* @btdc
intake closing 33* AfterBDC
exhaust opening 41.6* beforebdc
exhuast closing-9.6 after tdc
for a delta 260 grind
I would do everything at once
buy spark plugs for whatever engine your cyl heads are from

 

Problem with doing everything at once is that MS almost requires that all of the engine parts be broken in... The manual states that the cam should be broken in first. I'm thinking I should get the tune close with the stock cam and then put in the new one, but that's just me. I'm wondering what project would do in this situation...

for the Delta cam input, though.

:edit: And I've heard that Delco Rapidfires are crap...

 

i can give u a break in/base tune tune for the megasquirt . the reason they tell u not to do it on a brand new motor is because they dont know if the person tunning it can get it close enough the first time around that they can keep the engine running good or long enough to break in the cam .

but i have fuel maps that will be very close to what u need so u wont have that issue

are u doing full control with the megasquirt? i.e ignition and fuel?

 

Yeah, lucky for you I had to get the specs on my cam at one point to calculate dynamic CR, as for rapidfires, I had them in my 2.8 and they seemed pretty good, granted I never really got to drive it with that engine....and still tweaking the car even now, its got little issues, but yet enough to keep me from driving it other than test drives... =/ Blew a brake line out, pretty sure I have a leak at my vacuum caps, and its not holding idle right, either because of vacuum leak or bad IAC I think...

Oh and strangely 60/6 owners seem to pretty much unanimously agree on regular old cheap AC delco plugs.

 

theres only 2 plugs worth a dam in the 6/60 basic acdelcos or ngk's.

 

Yes, full control of the engine will be turned over to the MS. I was thinking about having one of my 302's piggybacked for emissions part control, but I think I'll just keep the evap can under TB vacuum control and dummy up the EGR valve. I'm planning on using the guide and adaptor board to put the MS board into my junk 302 case (yep, blew another one on St. Patty's day) so I can put in in the stock location under the dash. I'll be using the V2 with the latest software as I want to use a MAF/MAP combination.

Since my R43TSKs obviously won't work with the deeper aluminum heads, what's a good P/N for plugs?

 

Like I said man, just buy AC delco's for whatever engine your head is from.

 

lemme make a suggestion while the v2.2 board is an awsome board pay the extra for the v3.0 i installed the 3.0 in pilsburys car and the v3.0 is a better bpoard
they also make a ms plug and play for the v6 camaro but its ms2 v3.0 and i belive its 430 bucks complete

 

Man, just swap one of your '7730s in there and run either $A1 (FWD 3.1) or $8D (Would require some changes to some spark biases to get timing correct). If you add boost, you can swap over to $58 (Sy/Ty/Sunbird) or $59 (modified Sy/Ty/Sunbird).

Unless you're going MS3, it's not worth it, the OEM ECM has more functionality, and will retain all of your emissions functionality, including compensation for timing and fuel delivery when the EGR is open or closed, or the EVAP canister is purging, etc.

If you don't, let me know, I would be interested in those ECMs.

 

drop pilsbury a pm also i belive he has 2 ecms forsale

 

I had forgotten which was the latest MS2 board revision... I'll be using the MS2 V3.

I won't be using a 730. I had a complete harness with ECM from a 91 working, but it would be fine for about 3 weeks or so and then it would have an intermittent ignition problem (stalling out whenever it felt like... Shutting the car off for a minute every 70 seconds or so of driving gets kind of annoying along with the stalling that happens if I don't shut it off). I knew it wasn't the ignition parts (stock 87 harness could go forever if it wanted to on those same parts) and the problem existed between 2 ECMs. I was thinking of using the MS to get the tables to program into the 730 or 165, but it's a lot easier to use than the GM ECM and a LOT easier to program. All of my spare ECMs are for sale, BTW, 2 730's, a 1227727, a 16149396, and a 16196401 (both of which use a MEMCAL and the 6401 is for SFI)... Don't know if the other 302 is good or not and I know one is bad. Unless you can recommend an easier way to use the 730 with the 302 stock harness.

Also, project, how much would it cost me to send you my heads for some work?

 

The only way for the ignition to stop working is if the ignition components themselves have a problem.

The ICM can work without being connected to an ECM. It will take the pulses in from the reluctor wheel and then send those pulses to the coil. The purple/white connection between the ICM and the ECM is what tells the ECM that the engine is turning and at what RPM. The white wire is the wire that the ECM sends a signal back to the ICM to advance timing. The tan/black wire will control when timing is controlled by the ECM (above approximately 400 RPM), by applying 5V to this connection at the ICM. The black/red wire is simply a ground. So if the spark is actually failing it is either an ICM or coil problem, as far as hardware goes. You could also have an issue with the power supply to the ICM.

Easiest way to use a '7730 with the existing harness is to re-pin, which is not that difficult to do, just takes some time, and proper wiring diagrams. There might be a few wires that need to be added or changed from existing functions, like the MAF wires, could be used for the MAP sensor.

As far s a which system is easier, I find that using Tuner Pro with the '7730 is much easier than using the MS. The different versions of tuning software I have downloaded for the MS, don't seem quite as user friendly to me.

 

Well, I know that when the engine would quit with the 730 harness, the fuel injectors were still pulsing (lifted the hood to listen and heard both sides pulsing like mad trying to keep the engine running as it would stumble and stall, and the fuel pump was still running). Which still leaves the problem in the ignition part of the harness as the ignition parts are good with the other harness (again, NO PROBLEM WITH THE STOCK 87 302 HARNESS), as I've said many times before in trying to figure out the problem, and I still don't have a solution for it. I replaced the ICM the first time it happened, and it happened again with the new ICM about a week later as I was leaving my driveway. Which still leaves the problem in the harness and a blank as to what and where the problem is/was. That particular harness has been cut up now as I went through each and every wire with a DMM and found nothing when the wires are cold (didn't get to test them hot). I have another, but the guy I bought it from cut off the entire driver's side of the engine harness about six inches from the junction where the harness splits to that side and to the TB/alternator/AIR pump, (cut off the oil pressure unit plug, fuel injection harness connector, A/C compressor plugs and the temp gauge sender plugs) and I haven't gotten a chance to try to put it back together. Mostly because I don't have a length for those wires between the split for the TB and the respective connections. Also had a code 45 with that harness I didn't with the other, which also leaves me scratching my head. Might be a problem with the coil's 12V ignition power wire leaving weak spark cold and none hot, but I'm not going back to find out.

And as to why I wanted to swap the harnesses, I was sick of replacing the MAF every so often because AC/Delco MAFs are expensive and the aftermarkets just flat don't fit right. And MAPs are easy to find in the junkyard (got 3 for about $10).

Besides, if I'm going to have to rewire the ignition anyways (FWD ICM), I'd rather just dump the stock ECM. Mostly because they seem to have issues.

:edit: Oh, and I've replaced the rectifier bridge in the alternator 3 times and cleaned all grounds until they shine like new. Still don't know why the ECM keeps dying.

 

Definitely sounds like an electrical problem in the car, with the information you have just posted and going to an MS will only make that worse.

MS is VERY sensitive to voltage spikes and AC ripple. Which is another reason I stay away from MS, they don't seem to have the filtering that a Delco ECM has, or many other OEM ECMs for that matter.

There's no reason to need to replace the rectifier bridge that often, in fact I'm not sure I've ever HAD to replace a rectify bridge in an alternator. I have replaced the rectifier bridge, but only because I was already into the lat to replace the regulator, and it came in the kit.

In the years that I've been playing with cars and EFI, I have only ever had one Delco ECM fail and that was because it got some water on it, when it was raining hard one day on the highway. I looked over at the ECM (sitting on my passenger floor at the time), and it saw water trickling down it, due to a less than sealed firewall. Any electronics would fail when water is involved.

 

Going to bring this back from its coma...

What is the most commonly used throttle cable for this swap? I have Gen II pushrods coming (anyone want a set or 2 of Gen 3 rods? I have 2!).

Still collecting parts for too many things at once and the pile is getting big...

 

Depends on which throttle you use. Some have a snap in cable mount and a smaller cable eye (early cavalier cable works) and others use a slide on cable mount and larger cable eye (late '90's to early '00's bonneville cable worked for me).

 

I'm going to assume mine is the first one since the mount looks just like the one on the factory F-body bracket (TB and upper plenum from a 94-95). How early are we talking with the Cavvy cable? Pre-88 (or whatever year the second gen started in the J-body) or later?

 

Post '88 and I'm guessing pre '95.

 

Yep. Just wanted to make sure it was a V6 J. They (GM) killed the V6 in the J body in 95. Stupid Quad 4!

 

Okay, I got the pushrods a few days ago (damn PayPal for making me wait just because I don't want to give them my credit card numbers again!). They're in the bag with the lower end bearings and the oil pump screen, so I know where they are. I'm going to try to get the J-body V6 throttle cable sometime in the next couple of weeks (Dorman 16832 if anyone is interested).

Now, I'm starting work on the engine harness, trimming the fat (A/C crap is out of the car and the wiring will be gone shortly, EGR wiring, cold start injection system, etc), putting the 88-92 wiper motor connections in FOR GOOD (no more crap wiper motor mounted washer pump! I hate that thing!), and I, today, switched my stock 302 injector harness connectors for the spare I have from the 91 harnesses (no, I don't have a spare 3.1 injector harness, I guess I tossed it a while ago).

I have hit a slight snag. I seem to have misplaced my 3100 CTS with the attached 3-wire pigtail. I'd like to use that instead of the stock 2+1 wire units (gauge sender wire will be hooked up with a spare 3.1 harness EST bypass connector). Can anyone help?

 

Another wiring question: As for the DIS, I currently have what I would assume is either a 16 or 14 gauge ignition power wire to the coil connector. The DIS ignition module connector I have has a 20-gauge power wire. I'm guessing I just hook it up the way it is, but I want to make sure before I strip and splice that this will be okay the way it is?

 

Mine's running strong.

 

Well, now that I think about it, the distance will be so short (less than a foot) for the ignition pink wire that it shouldn't matter anyways.

Got half of the excess crap pulled out of the harness, going to do more shortly. If anyone needs any early connectors (injector harness, cold start, fan switch, EGR, wiper motor, distributor, etc) speak now or they go in the trash with the tape, loom, and other assorted crap I've pulled off of the 302 harness.

Searched AC/Delco's site for the CTS wiring pigtail and a few others, found what I needed, and I've saved a CTS on eBay for later purchase.

 

Found out that the Dorman 16839 is the wrong cable... Good thing I didn't order it. The right one is on J-body 4-cylinders and can only be gotten through either a dealer or aftermarket Delco sources (watching it on eBay for later). :edit: 10142068 (I think) is the P/N for the throttle cable.

Got paid by the IRS today. Ordered the MS-II with TPI adaptor board and stimulator with tuning cable just a few min ago and should have it in a couple of weeks. Going out in the next couple of days to get an engine hoist and stand to get the rest of the parts off of the frame of the car.

:edit: Anyone know offhand if I can drill and tap the hole for the 7x sensor in the side of the block (I have a 3.1 with the bare CKP boss)? Be a lot easier that way as opposed to spending umpteen dollars for an external trigger when I have the reluctor in the crank.

 

I don't suggest drilling holes in the block. You need to know exactly where you're going first of all (better for a machinist to do this) and it needs to be aligned with the crank properly. Get an external reluctor.