I just got my camaro back after having sold it to my brother a few years ago. now that I have room for it and he got tired of it, I bought it back. So I'm thinking of what I should do. I have access to a 327 that I planned on putting 6" rods in and putting a carb on top but with all these turbo threads out there I'm thinking it might be better (maybe even cheaper) to stick with the 3.4 and turbo it. I definitely want a v8 camaro but maybe I'll just hold off and buy a v8 car to play with if I come across one.

Any opinions? My goal is to run 12s with it. Can this be done on a stock 3.4 turbo? Would twin turbos be better? I know I might have to upgrade the drivetrain but don't plan on tearing the motor apart if I stick with the v6.

 

Would 12s be possible with a stock 3.4 and the ebay t3/t4 turbo?

 

Probably not with stock internals. You might be able to creep into the high 12's with a simple 3.4T. It will prob not be reliable at that point. You will need approx 300hp at the wheels and comparable tq to run a high 12s 1/4mile. Which mean you will have at least double your stock hp at the crank. For the eBay t3/t4s I have heard some say that generally they can produce a little less than 10 hp for every lb of boost. Which means at least 16-18lbs of boost to reach 320hp at the crank. At this amount of boost even though the ebay t3/t4's flow less cfm than other turbos, your motor might not hold up.
Pistons, rods, rings might be in order to run 12's. Also your stock trans is not really what you want to be using at anything over 250hp unless its been beefed up.

Don't quote me on any of this I am just speaking from general knowledge. Some figures may be off but in general my response should be accurate.

 

I researched a v8 swap for years, and even had a complete LT1 in my garage for a while. Lets just say that a v8 swap without a donor car BLOWS. And it's expensive. Just buy a v8 car if that is what you really want.

12s can be done on a 3.4 & t3/t4. I think we've got at least 2 cars here in the 12s, and I think one is a 3.1 with a t3/t4.
Forged connecting rods and a 8.5:1 compression ratio make our engines boost friendly. *I think* I've read 12 - 15 psi for completely stock, with a proper tune.

(My knowledge is all "on paper." Hopefully those with real experience will chime in.)

 

I've been searching alot and it seems like torque is amazing (almost 400ft*lb) with these cars turbo'ed but hp is only around 300. That would be enough for 12s? I'm starting to lean toward a TT blow thru carb sbc setup since that seems more promising.

Why would a v8 swap be so expensive? I'm going to use a carb so really all I would need from the donor car is the front springs. Springs are reasonable so I'll just buy new. I have a mechanical speedo so that shouldn't be a problem.

There will probably be a 3.4 and a T-5 for sale soon! I'm looking to put my 327 in with a T-56. Either way the T-5 will be for sale since even a turbo'ed v6 would probably break that

 

[quote=jensen73110;4762417]I researched a v8 swap for years, and even had a complete LT1 in my garage for a while. Lets just say that a v8 swap without a donor car BLOWS. And it's expensive. Just buy a v8 car if that is what you really want.quote]

Been there, done that... Agree 100%

If you're honestly going to do a V8 swap, don't think of doing it without a donor car. The costs add up so fast

 

I did a v8 swap with no donor and man did it suck. Having to re-wire a lot of things, repin c100 and c207 connectors, getting this part and that part and finding out they dont work,a v8 is nice, and man do I love having a t-5 tpi5.7 over the t-5 2.8 i had, but i think it cost me more to do the swap than a v8 car would have. Oh well, I guess I have a formula clone started.

 

If you're going carb'ed 327 SBC with a T56, you'll need a new transmission crossmember and, possibly, torque arm. Wiring won't be a problem with a carb'ed SBC. If you were going TPI, that'd be a different story. You might want to think about replacing the rear-end if that 327 is "modified".

The T5 can be rebuilt to handle 600RWHP/500LB-FT.
http://www.gforcetransmissions.com/tran_gt-5.asp
Just make sure it's a World-Class T5. The whole rebuild, all options, would be about $2,000 shipped. At least, that's what I was quoted...

 

Closer to $2500 to reach those actual figures, they were attained with the hardened 4340 mainshaft, not part of the "basic" kit. Also, pretty sure that's supposed to be flywheel horsepower

Also... They now offer a new strengthened case for the T5, which should increase the strength considerably, for $300. And with a torque arm relocated off of the tailshaft, it's reasonable to assume the transmission could handle more stress.

Lots of variables to consider... Above mentioned, gear design, vehicle weight, clutch, tires etc....

 

Direct quote from G-Force Transmission:

"The G-Force T5 synchronized upgraded gear kit is $1,295.00 which includes 1st-4th gear sets, input shaft and cluster shaft, bearings and synchros. This kit utilizes the stock mainshaft and overdrive. If you want the optional upgraded mainshaft, they are $355.00. The labor to install the kit is $250.00 plus shipping/handling. The gear kit is rated up to 600 rwhp and 500 ft/lbs torque.

Add $140.00 for the shipping/insurance/packaging."

All that adds up to $2,040.00. Shipping may be different due to location.

And the "New" transmission, again, direct quote:

"The GM Complete transmissions are $3,000.00."

Even if those are flywheel horsepower numbers, assuming a pessimistic 15% parasitic drivertrain loss of power, that's still able to support 510RWHP. I doubt that a 327 SBC, or a 3.4L turbocharged 60* V6, unless built for a "Full-Race" application, will make that much power.

The rear-ends don't usually stand up to much more than 400RWHP anyhow.

Not really sure why anyone would not convert to the crossmember-mounted torque-arm such as:
http://www.spohn.net/shop/1982-1992-...nsmission.html

But...that's just me.

 

Don't forget costs like the cluster support plate, and shift forks... I know my transmission came out to about $2500 all said and done. But I had straight cut gears & dog-ring engagement, so maybe that's where some extra cost came in for me too. I didn't just pull that number out of my butt though

And Tremec makes replacement T5's, for a lot less than that GM quote


And just for what it's worth, the whole argument over "torque capacity" is somewhat moot, since it's the impact that breaks transmissions. Throwing a number out doesn't take nearly all the variables into account it should. A drag car will put far more hurt on a transmission than a road race car ever will


But back to topic, sorry for thread-jacking

 

YEAH...I'm pretty sure that your straight cut gears & dog-ring engagement is why your price was so much more.

I don't know how much Tremec T5's are going for.

I agree that "torque capacity" is more based on how the car is driven.

 

Yea I looked into the T-5 rebuild option but for that kind of money I can probably have everything needed to do a T-56 swap so why would I bother with a T-5? Also, I'm not dead set on a T-56, We'll see what comes along. I'm not in a hurry for this and not dead set on doing the swap without a donor car but as I said, I'm going carb'ed so i don't see it as being hard or expensive if I can't find one. Plenty in the junkyards for me to take what I need off of. I can understand why a v6-> 5.7 tpi swap would be so hard and expensive.... I wouldn't even attempt anything like that.

 

DONT turbocharge the 3.4. I've seen it done, and its either expensive, underpowered, or unreliable. ALWAYS one of those. Also, a T56 swap is also not worth it. Thats another swap that is one of my favorite three adjectives. On a V6 car it does not bolt right in, far from it.

My advice? Drive the 3.4 around as a DD - if you want a fast car (and I mean FAST) then buy someone elses project (like something that already has a cage and good rear end in it for example but the engine is gone or toast).

 

im going to disagree a little bit there, its neither underpowered or unreliable....expensive yeah ill give you that one

(yes i have one)

 

Swapping in a v8 isn't exactly easy or cheap, you don't just need new springs, you also need to swap a transmission, you will need a new wiring harness and or ECM, and mostly, the thing that is going to get you is all the stupid little crap, for example, I swapped in a 3.4, got the whole engine for $200 or 250(cant recall which) but then there was all the unforeseen little things, like the lower radiator hose on the 2.8 being a larger diameter, couldn't even come close to sealing on the 3.4 water pump, then I had to get 2 heater hoses because I needed more length to route them differently, then my LIM pipe sprung a leak and I had to replace that fitting, and buy a friggin 27 mm wrench to do so, then somehow one of the heater hoses got a hole in it, and I found a huge gash in the upper rad hose that I didn't trust(it was pretty deep) then I had to track down another PS pulley because mine was bent(the car the engine was from hit a telephone pole, and the engine had a hard landing unloading from the truck when I got it home...) well they don't even make new PS pulleys for that thing, then I found out that it was missing the tensioner after I already figured out the belt routing and bought a belt(didn't realize it had a tensioner) then I had to figure out how to wire the alternator up, and even though I at one point(first thing I tried even) had it right, it for some reason didn't work(had the alternator tested, it tested bad, so maybe that was why) so new alternator, paying someone else to wire it up right. After putting the top end together turned out I had a vacuum leak, so had to tear it down again and get another set of intake gaskets to be sure it would seal good(didn't want to have to take the damn thing apart again, had tried resealing with rtv, didn't work.)

My point in all of that is, it never goes as simple or easy as you expect, as a general rule of thumb with engine swaps and or rebuilds, take your expected cost, and double it, because theres always at least one complication. And I probably had a couple more than I even listed.

As for your question of whether or not a boosted 3.4 can hit 12s, yes it can, it has been done, but first and foremost, if you go over 6 psi of boost, you need forged pistons, your stock internals are pretty strong by default, but forged pistons are necessary for boost due to risk of detonation, the conrods are forged steel, the crank is probably good to 400-500 hp or tq I don't know of anyone that has broken a large journal crank, but if you really wanted a 3500 forged crank can be used in a 3.4, last but not least, you simply cannot run 12s without tearing apart the 3.4, because to get it to run 12s on stock components you will need well more than 6 psi of boost which means new pistons, so you might as well throw a cam and some porting at it in the process, also you will need bigger injectors and probably a higher flow fuel pump as well.
Also I don't think 300 hp is near enough to run 12s, unless you have godly torque, a 350 tpi is rated at 245 hp and 345 torque, and thats probably underrated on the hp, and those run 15s, granted they weigh a little more, but not near enough to make an equally powerful 6 run 12s just because of a little less weight.

And pilsbry, did you get a new clutch yet? I'm still dying to know how much that 3.4 is REALLY making.

 

If he's going carb'ed, he won't need an ECM of harness.

Do people read these threads before commenting?

You mean you didn't expect all those wonderful events with you swap, man? You got the engine out of a car that had been in a wreck...and then you let it down HARD out of your truck?! LOL! WOW...is that the fault of the Swap-Process, or...maybe, something else?

 

I bet a stock LS1 runs away from it all day.

 

Oh don't worry I'll prove you wrong soon

And yes I have a clutch now, but it's winter so I dunno when I'll put it in

 

Weak? Since when? This was a lowly 2.8. Put alot more through it than I thought I would.