I hate my EGR valve on my 3.1 V6!! I just get the damn engine running right and the EGR cooks the middle or front spark plug wire and I have to get under the hood again. I live in California, so I know it will have to go back on for smog this year, but what kind of problems an I likely to get by removing it? I have seen comments about possible codes etc but does anyone have any 'hands on' experience with removing it from a 3.1 V6? I am just going to pull it and bolt on some 'delete' plates and that should be it, right?

 

it will throw a code...other than that, no problems

mine(i have a manual trans) would only throw the code if i engine brake or let drive for a long time it would pop on

 

Throw a code, reduced fuel milage, more prone to pre-ignition/knock, more emmisions, warmer running engine, etc.

If your plugs wires are being "cooked" by the EGR, it sounds like there is a wire routing issue with your particular car. Also, an EGR delete plate will not change that at all, since the pipe leading to the EGR will still get hot.

 

What 6 shooter typed. Just accept the fact that you failed to route the wire away from the hot parts. Then fix that, and life goes on.

 

I'm inclined to agree with the others, you are trying fixing the wrong problem, just reroute the plug wires better, use a tie wrap or looms if you have to.

 

On my 92 (3.1 V6), the boots of all six wires have a metal shield that is installed on the wire prior to connecting to the plug. It's a GM part, but I couldn't tell you what the part number is. They do a nice job of keeping the heat from the wire boots.

Here's a picture of one and its liner. Just like it looks, it fits over the entire boot.

 

His problem isn't with the spark plug wire boots. It's with the wires themselves contacting the EGR transfer tube.

OP, you can block off the EGR if you want to, but it's not going to fix your problem because you HAVE to retain it. Until you find a way to route the wires differently (I can't tell you how many companies sell wire looms that hold the wires in place), you're going to keep melting them. Get a set of wire looms and run the wires over the valve covers out of the way.

 

FWIW, before I put these on, I used to burn out those same two wires at the boots. It's a really hot spot there because of the proximity to the EGR tube. The only wire I have routed special is #1 which comes up and outside of the alternator bracket through a wire stay that is mounted on the alternator bracket.

Here, you can see the #1 wire routed through the wire stay on the alternator bracket, #3 and #5 are in the middle of the picture. Pic also shows how close #3 boot comes to the EGR tube without any way to reroute it away.

 

Guys, please. Before you assume anything, ASK. I have wire looms- billet aluminum ones. The wires are NOT touching the EGR- just uncomfortably close due to the design that Government Motors decided to foist on us. My plug boots even have kevlar-like sleeves on them rated to 2000 degrees or thereabouts- it even says on the packaging to a) push them against the block to protect the boots and b) don't even worry if they contact the headers, they will protect the wires! My problem, besides the ungodly amount of heat that the damn EGR stalk radiates is that I hate having that big, ugly afterthought of a piece of equipment in the way all the time! It is like putting braces on Bo Derek for god's sake! I think I just dated myself there....

My issue IS, does ANYONE WITH THE 3.1 HAVE EXPERIENCE WITH REMOVING THE EGR VALVE ENTIRELY AND WHAT ARE THE PROS AND CONS? Sorry for shouting, but all sorts of tangential arguments are popping up on this thread.

I have seen SPECULATION that it causes ignition issues, richness issues, prevents complete combustion (although how blowing soot into the intake PROMOTES cleaner burning is beyond me), shortening of engine life etc. Will it impact the life of the catalytic convertor for example?

I have also seen SPECULATION that in won't hurt at all and EXPERIENCE that indicates that it will throw a code but not impact the engine adversely at all.

I understand that it may increase the NOX output at the tailpipe, but I am prepared to face the consequences of that with Al Gore, should the need arise. And I will be putting it back on to get it smogged later this year.

 

You were complaining of melting plug wires, I think it was reasonable of us all to assume that you were just routing them poorly and needed to find a way to get them to stop melting, I for one have never had a problem melting plug wires on my EGR, other wires(namely starter, and o2) on my headers, yes.

That being said the car modifying community is quite split on the subject of whether removing EGR improves a car or downgrades, personally I think they are worse on older cars in the early years of smog reduction, I also can't help but notice that some newer cars don't even have them(like my mom's 98 quad 4 GA), which to me says that they must not be all important as some people believe them to be.

You won't find a single debate on it, where removing it or keeping appears to be the clear cut thing to do. As for removing it, it is simple, you just take it off, put gaskets on it, and bolt down a block off plate, on the 3.1 you will also have to disable the EGR code to pass an inspection and or not have your CES light on. Also you will need shorter bolts, I just cut mine down to size with a dremel. Bear in mind a sniffer test might fail without it, and a visual definitely will.

 

ran it without one for years....im not saying its the correct thing to do but i never had a problem

 

Didn't want to 'p' anyone off, just wanted an answer from some who have done what I want to do. Thanks for your feedback though. I found that I had a blown EGR gasket, so straight exhaust gas was blasting onto my #4 plug... fixed it and the car runs fine now, although having to replace the ends of the #2 and #4 plug wires was a pain.
I still plan to remove the EGR though and see how it runs. I think I will block off the end where the EGR extension meets the plenum first. That will cut off the exhaust flow without disconnecting the EGR for the time being. Then if that doesn't effect the engine's performance, I will take the whole thing off. Thoughts??

 

What I posted was not speculation, but my own first hand experiance and research from reliable sources over the many years of working on cars. If you don't want to take what I've seen as truth and not speculation, then so be it.

EGR is not an "after thought," the benefits are all there, and measurable, some with some special equipment, but measurable, none the less.

If you're producing and blowing "soot" into the intake through the EGR, you have larger problems. lol

 

i forgot to mention, when i took mine off i left it plugged into the egr and stuffed it over by the blower motor. if you just disconnect it it will always through a code. if you leave it plugged in it will only throw the code after the ecm finally notices its not there.

only reason mine came off was due to headers not having place to put egr on...and i didnt care to make one

 

Here's the thing... The EGR on the 3.1 does not have the vacuum sensor found on the 2.8. As such, the ECM uses the MAP sensor to determine if the valve has opened or not, especially on deceleration, when it opens each valve in turn and looks for the corresponding change in manifold vacuum. You can't just block it off, either.

And if you were to do it anyways, block the EGR at the exhaust manifold. However, as Six Shooter said (almost can't believe I agree with him for once), you WILL lose gas mileage, have higher engine temps, and throw the code, which, I would bet, is an automatic failure in the Smog **** capital of the USA. I had a malfunctioning EGR on my 3.1 when first dropped in (vacuum valve died), and know this well.

 

funny thing....i never experienced any of said problems, not saying they dont happen or that im right. ran just like it always did

 

There is no benefit to deleting the EGR, it can only cause problems.
Why fix something that isn't broken is my opinion on the subject...

 

If you have a way of doing it, it's best to reprogram the ECM for EGR delete. Otherwise, the ECM will lean the fuel mixture and advance the ignition timing when it thinks EGR is active.
It's probably not as dangerous as some make it out to be, but it's still better if the ECM knows what's going on so it doesn't do dumb things.

I have a 2.8 and had an EGR code, and the car was stumbling at partial throttle. The valve didn't seem to leak so I suspected the control solenoid, which is expensive.
I haven't blocked the valve but I disabled EGR in the ECM and it runs noticeably better that way. It still stumbles a bit but it's about 80% improved.
In TunerPro, there's a temperature threshold for when EGR becomes enabled. I just set that for "car is on fire" and also disabled the EGR's error test. Since it never tries to enable EGR, it never gets out of sync with reality and the mixture/timing stay correct.
My mileage even improved, but that might not be true for people who have an EGR that works correctly. Still, without EGR my mileage is getting into the upper range of EPA ratings so I'm skeptical that it makes much difference.
I may fix it properly someday, but the part to replace is expensive so I probably won't.

 

I LOL'd.

 

Just got back from the yard, where I pulled 6 of those sleeves. Might chrome them to pretty up the engine bay more...
Still have a dropped cylinder, so I think one or two of the wires are suspect now from the heat.
Question: is there supposed to be a gasket between the exhaust manifold and the EGR stalk? I have pulled two now in the yard for various reasons and no gaskets...
I had the manifolds Jet Hot coated to try and reduce the temperatures- do you think the coating may have put a texture on the mating surfaces so that the stalk doesn't seal? I think I will take a file and dress both surfaces to make sure they are completely flat. Opinions?

 

a smear of 100% clear silicone will make it seal for good, also not noticeable like some bright orange hi temp rtv, takes the hi temps just as well. exhaust donuts don't leak on my v8 car from a good smearing of it.

 

Thanks. I have tried using that copper stuff from Permatex, but I think it just provides enough spacing to let the thing leak...

 

I don't even use muffler clamps anymore with slip fit home done jobs, slather of 100% clear seals and sticks like glue, but will come apart if need be with some counter twisting motion. proper hangers will hold it in position.

 

Hee I got a 1992 3,1 and put a metal piece between egr and engine, made a metal piece with 2 holes for egr screws and works fine nobody sees it hi hi....

 

why dont you reroute the plug wire to clear the egr better. you can take it off and deal with the check engine light if you'd like also...

 

Is this the same guy posting the same thread with the same title? or someone else copying?

There is no reason to remove or block off the EGR. Nothing good will come of it. Routing your wires so they don't touch it takes about 1 minute to do, and a 50 cent wire loom... It really is that simple.

 

Hee which wires are those, I took can of coke and cut the metal and put it between the intake...cheers

 

Yes, this is the same guy- I put it on the wrong forum before. My point was that the damn thing gets in the way of the plug wires, changing spark plugs and it offends me visually. I have the plug wires sorted with nice billet looms on the driver's side- but the passenger side is just untidy, plus burning the #4 plug wire all the time has been a pain. I know how to route wires, it is just that this thing has been a damn bane...

 

Never got anything burned to this point. I just got a v6 new airfilter from ebay, aluminum, chroom filter 42 bucks and it looks nice and the car does drive better, more pull and to 80mph with no problem.

 

Well not to be a smartass but if you knew how to route wires you wouldnt be burning them...maybe a stock set wont let you route it the way you want. If that's the case get some custom wires and make them the length you want and do it that way.

 

You're not being a smart ***- well actually you are! Anyway, that EGR stalk just gets so damn hot...as I said, it seems to cook the #4 wire no matter what and I can't easily get at the #2 plug without a fight either.
I have nice wire looms on the drivers side, but I can't duplicate the look on the passenger side as I said- you can see in the photo how the driver's side looks...
I have an idea though- I will snap a photo if I can make it work.

 

heres the problem i see...

your the ONLY person i have ever read having a problem with this. so whatever the problem is i would try to fix that as opposed to just getting rid of the EGR.

especially since you have to have it where you live

 

Threads merged.

 

Here's what you do. Next time you go to replace the plug wires, you lay them out by size with the dizzy ends lined up. The plug wires ARE NOT the same length for both sides of the engine. The LONGER ones in each pair go on the pass side of the engine. And clean off the valve cover and get some looms/grommets on it. Also, try twisting the boot and terminal on the plug to gain more freedom of movement.

Can't imagine why this is so difficult. ALL of my looms were broken (as in NOTHING holding my plug wires where they were supposed to be). I only burned the one wire I did because the terminal wasn't all the way on the plug and the spark arced through to the cylinder head instead of firing the plug. Heck, I ran all of the wires on that side over the lifting eye and in with a bunch of other wires and connectors (for the ignition and EGR solenoid/switch) and had not one problem, and on the other side, tucked them between the valve cover and the long bolts that the looms were supposed to be on (if I had any, can't seem to remember ever having any on that side).