Nixon1

Ok guys..after a long and drawn out debate with myself, I've decided to keep my V-6 3.1 Camaro and beef it up REAL nice, instead of trying to save up for a long time and buying an 8 cylinder. I'll save the 8 for when I get older and get a REAL job that pays more than 5.40 an hour! Ok, so here's the scoop. I've got $800 + sitting in the bank.. I'd like to get the most horsepower/performance for my money. Now, since I don't know enough to do installations myself, and my friends that do know a little aren't competent enough to do something without breaking something else, I'll have to pay mechanics to put the stuff in. Which means mucho dinero, probably $40 an hour for labor, depending on where I go. So, could you guys give me some tips on what I should get done with my $800? I'm definitely putting a Dynomax muffler in and a Catco high-flow converter too.. Would ignition be worth it? If I SHOULD do ignition, what specific parts should I buy? I'm thinking I should go with MSD..I've heard nothing but good stuff about them. And also, I've got multiple oil leaks which bring my idling PSI way down to 20. Is that going to be a real problem if I start putting performance parts in? I don't want to blow any more gaskets or seals or anything, or do any damage to my engine due to lack of oil flow. And how about intake? Would you recommend CAI?
The car is a 3.1 V-6 with no mods except simpleton stuff, a K&N filter and hi-temp 7mm spark plug wires. I don't know it's quarter mile, but it pulls 0-60 in roughly 10.5 in Drive, and VERY occasionally it'll drop down to 9 if I use the 1>2>Drive method.

Thanks a ton..you guys are the best!

1991tealRSt-topGuy

$800 in the bank huh


SAVE IT!!!!!!

you bought a 2nd hand camaro

your young

YOUR GONNA NEED REPAIRS


i went from $3000 in the bank to $50 in a matter of a month cuz of my camaro

nothing hostile just some advice from the experienced

one tweaked 3.1L

i think you should fix those oil leaks, your going to need to do it sooner or later, do a tune up and if left over do your exhaust.

Nixon1

Believe me, I know all about repairs. The day after I got the car, the radiator blew. Then the starter went. Then I discovered I had no tranny mount. Then it kept stalling because the fuel filter was horribly clogged... The air filter was never cleaned...replaced it with a K&N. And as far as my oil leaks go, they're from 4 places. My intake manifold, valve covers, oil pan gasket, and my rear main seal. This makes me leak a quart every week and a half to two weeks. Plus, it gives me a nasty idle...the engine vibrates the whole car because the oil pressure doesn't remain steady. It'll jump up to 40, then shake, then fall to 20, then up to 25, then back down to 18 or 20 or so, then up a little again. It's got a few other things that need to be looked at, such as an unexplained popping whenever I turn the steering wheel, hit a bump, or apply moderate braking. Plus, I think my TPS is messed up.. I'll be cruising along holding steady on the pedal when you can feel the car let off the gas on its own a little, then go back in, then let off a little.. I don't lose any RPM's at all, but I'll lose a 1 mph or so, and I can definitely tell the car is letting off because around 40 or 45 mph, my tranny shakes/jerks/makes funny noises whenever you give it gas, or let off the gas...and it was shaking. Prognosis doesn't sound too good, does it?

Ohh yeah, and my speedometer sticks at 0 and my tachometer is off by about 1500+ or so RPM's.

SAEspinz80

i don't think that catback will make you hazards that much brighter when you are stuck on the the side of the road. this isn't meant to be a flame, but i would highly suggest getting your car in good running condition. ESPECIALLY if you plan having it for a while and not buying an 8 till you get older. i know it sucks to hear this but its true. the first thing any of us will tell you to do is a complete tune up. well, thats only good once the car is in good running condition in the first place. ya gotta fix those oil leaks. i mean 1 quart every week or so. damn, if i replaced a quart of synthetic every week for the last two years i woud be kicking myself in the a$$ for all the money i wasted instead of buying a cam!! seriously, fix the problems with your car before you spend on the performance products. think of the more important things first: being able to resell the car....and being able to drive it for an extended period of time. i mean righ now i have the money to buy a cam, rockers, a cat and a chip....buuut, i gotta wait for the CT winter to come and go so i can spend it on paint...easier to sell a shiny car than one half primer black and half shiny black....but good luck with whichever you choose...the choice is easy in my POV....

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1990 Firebird 3.1
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- Auto Trans, TA Body Kit
- Home Made C.A.I. (KNN-RE-0810)
- ASP Underdrive Pulleys
- MSD 8.5mm Superconducter Wires (custom-cut)
- MSD GM Blaster Coil (8226)
- AC Delco Cap & Rotor
- Bosh Platinum +4 plugs
- Mobil 1 Synthetic Fluids
- 2.5" Hooker Aero-Chamber Cat-back (27121)
- 2.5" Hooker Elite Stainless Extension Tips (31503)
- GTS Blackouts (stickers removed - #GT034)
- TB Bypass

KILLS = Dodge Daytona, 2000 Toyota 4 Runner 4WD,
1999ish Explorer XLT, "older" Jeep Cherokee, 68ish Mustang (died completely when the light went green )

LOSSES = 300zx (took me in 2nd )

"The racing dice added 5hp...I SWEAR!"

[This message has been edited by SAEspinz80 (edited October 26, 2001).]

TomP

First, your rear main seal probably isn't leaking; I'd put $5 on a bet that it's the "one inch inside diameter O-ring" on your distributor's shaft.

Second, do NOT pay a mechanic to install things! We all started the same way you did, man... from knowing nothing. Buy a 1982-92 Haynes repair manual; that'll tell you how to take it all apart, and put it back together again. The only thing I haven't done personally on my car was the frame welding, windshield swap, first trans swap, and the paint job (tho I did the bodywork). Other guys here have done even more! We can definately help you install -anything-, and have you put that $40/hour towards more mods.

Third, the popping noise you hear when you turn the steering wheel probably means that your frame is cracked. Don't panic; it's a common f-body crack spot. It happens at the frame spot where the steering box bolts to. The frame flexes at this point, and after years of flexing, the metal fatigues, and cracks. The solution is to have a weldor weld it shut; the best solution is to have him weld a back-up plate in that area. The "wonderbar" (search the suspension/chassis area) was used to strengthen this area.

Fourth, why not replace the valve cover gaskets yourself? Heck, while you're in there, replace the intake manifold gasket. What makes you think these are leak spots, anyway?

Fifth, you have a self-adjusting TPS. This means either it's good, or it's bad. The self-adjusting TPS came out in 1990. You could still clean out your IAC passageway, though (to clean up your idle).

Sixth, do you have an automatic? I bet that "jerking" feel to the car at 40-45 is your TCC (torque convertor clutch) kicking in/out. Next time your car acts freaky, take your left foot and push on the brake pedal- press just enough to turn on the brake lights, but not hard enough to slow the car down. The RPM's will go up as the TCC unlocks. If your trans "feels normal" and stops jerking with your foot pressing on the brake pedal, then your problem is solved- as in, there wasn't a problem to begin with!


Finally, , as to the performance stuff:

#1 (as said already): Do a major tuneup. By "major", I mean you won't be leaving one part out (like everyone usually does)! I just re-posted the info at https://www.thirdgen.org/messgboard/...ML/002983.html

As to the ignition system, besides the usual consumables (plugs/wires/distrib cap&rotor), the most i'd buy for your car ignition-wise is an aftermarket coil. You can buy a blaster II coil (MSD) for $25, and yes, you can wire the two-wire coil into the 4-wire GM system. A full ignition system (MSD or otherwise) won't really give you a ton of horsepower. It's one of those "good ideas to do", but for a pretty much stock motor, you can spend that $200 on something more significant (like roller rockers!). However, you need to make sure your stock ignition system is working at it's best- and for under $100, you can rebuild your distributor yourself (and find some lost power)! Holley spark module = $60, stock pick-up coil = $12, new distributor cap & rotor = $20. (Paying with Mastercard; priceless! ) Search this web-board, Karl (KED85) and I gave some tips on distributor rebuilding.

Don't buy a Dynomax muffler, buy the whole cat-back ($150) and put it in yourself. You'll see a much better gain over just a muffler, and you won't have to try to separate the old rusty muffler from it's old rusty pipe.

A cold air intake is definately a good idea.



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-Tom P (Hot rodded 1986 Firebird 2.8l)

Nixon1

Wow.. You guys kick. Thanks for the TON of info Tom.. First off, you said the popping is with the steering system. But it doesn't only pop during turns, it pops whenever I hit a little bump and whenever I apply moderate or more brakes...think it's still the steering? And also, yes, it's an automatic. It seems to perform REALLY jerky around those speeds in Drive. When I put it into Overdrive, it's much more smooth and controlled, but it still kicks, just to a far lesser degree. If it is the TCC at work making it act so jerky, is that just the way it works no matter what, or can it be replaced with a new one to end that problem? And also, with the TCC doing that, should I hear any noises? I hear a grind sort of sound when it does that..a quick flash of sound..sometimes it's a higher pitched grind noise. I wish I could describe it better, but I haven't heard anything similar to compare it to. Oh, and by the way, the popping sound.. It sounds almost just like a thick sheet metal being popped in and out. And I think you're all right about the whole 'fix it up first' idea.. I don't want it falling apart on me. And the oil leak worries me the most, the fact that it's so bad and it brings my idle PSI so low. Now, during normal accelerations, the PSI goes to about normal, around 70 I think..but idling, it drops way down. I think I'm just gonna put 10-w40 in it to slow the leak a tad, and keep saving my money so I can sell this one for all it's worth, stockpile all the money, and get a V-8.. Maybe even a classic if I can get enough money..an older Camaro or a beautiful 2nd gen Trans-Am. Alright, I'm blabbering.. Thanks for everything guys.

TomP

Oh, in that case, it might be the balljoint on that side. If you're out of the car, try pressing down on that side's front fender. First push lightly, then push more, then start the car bouncing to see if you can hear the noise.

It could also be interference between the fender and the door. Check for paint missing on those edges.

http://www.p-s-t.com makes a polygraphite front end rebuild kit for our cars, for I think $159. It comes with new balljoints & bushings & tie rod ends. It also comes with a "how-to" video for installation. Rebuilding a front end isn't hard, it's just a lot of work... then when you're done, you limp to your favorite alignment shop.

Oops, about the TCC- yeah, that's normal operation, but it shouldn't be too jerky. Your TV cable (see tech section of thirdgen.org) might need adjusting, or the fluid might need changing. At worst, your trans might be dying- pull the trans dipstick and check the fluid. Check for color, smell, and feel. Good trans = reddish color, fluid-y smell, feels slippery. Old fluid = light brown color, okay smell, slighly gritty feel. Trouble/"rebuild it soon" trans = black color, burnt smell, very gritty feel.

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-Tom P (Hot rodded 1986 Firebird 2.8l)

[This message has been edited by TomP (edited October 29, 2001).]

ChillPhatCat

I agree you should get it running good before you start hopping it up. Ignition mods are only for serious power output, the stock ignition will not hold you back before 300+ Hp and even then, losses are very minimal... An aftermarked coil is a good cheap mod, but don't bother with spark plug wires, maybe a fresh set of OEM replacements just to set a base for quality control.

My advice: Check your shocks, fix the oil leaks and look over your tires to see if you'll be needing new ones any time soon. Also, if there is any rust go out and get some rust stopping paint to halt the process (sand most rust off before hand).

Once you fix the mechanical problems, you will most likely see some gains in performance and handling. If you've got some money left over, buy a K&N filter kit and a high flow cat.

Nixon1

Well, I already tested the balljoint/strut theory. I pressed a little on that side..nothing. Pressed really hard up and down, nothing. I'll be damned if I can figure out where the sound is coming from, but it sounds REALLY close to the cabin, like the front of the door or something. I'll have to have that cable checked...once I find out exactly what it is. As far as my tranny goes, I'll check the fluid tomorrow. I know about 2 or 3 months ago, I had to put a full 2 quarts of fluid in because me being a dummy never checked the level after I bought the car, and I discovered it was halfway down that little twist in the rod. My shifts sure smoothed up after that..but I still have a few rough shifts where it wants to lag in high rpm's before kicking over.. And sometimes if I give it some gas around like 25 or 30 or so, like full pedal, the car will start to run hard, then suddenly drop out of gear with the engine screaming at probably 5800 rpm's, and drop into gear like 1-1.5 seconds later. It's annoying as hell! And by the way..about my TCC...whatever the problem is, it's jerky as hell. It seems unresponsive until you give it a certain level of power. In Drive at least, around those speeds (40-45), I give it a little gas and there's a sharp jerk and I start to accelerate..I let off the pedal, trying to level my speed, and it completely lets go, kicks and shimmies, and then thunks up again when I give it a tad more gas..it's pretty hard to get my speed consistent with it doing that. Doesn't do it in Overdrive though..except the shimmy kicks when I let off the gas, and even then it only does that about 40% of the time. Ok, so I've just basically listed every little problem to you that could be the tranny..think it is? And by the way, last time I checked my fluid which was like 2 weeks ago, it was a nice red shade, not really dark..you could see through it. Looked perfect.

Trent257

hey man, you can get like 50$ worth of gaskets, fix ur oil prolems, id sugest just to keep the car running and drive it to the ground, with that many problems, i dont think its worth sinking money into

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Trent
---Car---
89 Firebird/305 L03 TBI A4/t-tops
Open Element Edelbrock Aircleaner w/ K&N air filter/Summit Chrome Valve Covers
Edelbrock TES headers 3" out/flowmaster American thunder 3" exaust/Catco cat
---Stero---
Pioneer DEH-P730 Premium
Infinity 2way 4652 4x6's/Pioneer 4way ts-a6985 6x9's
profile cl640 110x4

Brian K

If I had 800 to spend I would personally go with nitrous. That is me though. I tell you this do not waste your money on pulleys, hold off on the catco you may not need it and just get the cat back.

I would:

1. Put new plugs in the stock type
2. Get some MSD Wires and MSD Coil
3. New Fuel Filter
4. Fix the oil leaks

Wait 3 months

5. Double roller chain and crane 2030 cam.

Wait 6 months

TomP

I disagree with the plug wires; aftermarket ones will show an improvement. For kicks, I put on some 7mm wires and re-plugged-in my original coil a while ago. I noticed with the 7mm wires, my throttle was less responsive over all RPM's. I put my MSD 8.5's back on, and the car seemed to rev up faster & easier. I then put my (back then) Accel remote HEI supercoil back in. The car got more power at higher RPM's, and the upper shift point (at WOT) raised. I attribute that to the engine having more power (and the trans sensing it).

Good to hear the trans fluid's red. Since you have a 3.1, you have a pretty much bulletproof version of the 700r4 trans (early models, like the 83-84 series, and the 85-86 series, had many problems). I'd say definately check/reset your TV cable. RenoLB8 (remember that guy?) wrote up a tech article describing it, and the pic shows a V6! For kicks, use white out to mark where the small thin rectangle (slider) goes into the large "button" (adjuster). That way you establish a baseline of "where the TV cable was", and you can compare it to the new setting. This way, not only can you see how far out of adjustment it was (if at all!), if your trans starts acting really badly, you can put the cable back to where it was originally.

Did you ever do my TCC check?


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-Tom P (Hot rodded 1986 Firebird 2.8l)

Nixon1

Now that you ask Tom, actually, I have done the TCC check. Nothing happened at all. No noise, no thunk, no clicks, no nothing..just kept chugging right along and being its usual jerky self. I was freaked out today when I was in the car in the parking lot.. I was giving it a full rev, but the engine SOUNDED like it was only revving to 2000, even though the tach was flying up..and I got a massive amount of backfire through my muffler and POURED out smoke too.. And I looked under my hood and revved the car via cable, and smoke started coming out from under the hood! I panicked and thought I had an exhaust leak...but it wasn't. I was just burning off the oil I leak from my intake manifold..and everywhere else. Oh, haven't done the little rub tranny fluid through my fingers check yet, but I'll check it tonight.

TomP

Okay, so, it's not the TCC then... have you ever felt it lock/unlock? Go about 40 mph on a level road, with the car warm, and engine running at least 5 minutes.

Were you revving it "full rev" in neutral?!? Yipes...

As to the backfire; is the timing correct? Pull all the plugs & check their gaps and see if they're oil fouled or not... you might also want to buy/borrow/rent a fuel pressure gauge and make sure your pump's giving you the 40 PSI (key on, engine off) that it should be.


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-Tom P (Hot rodded 1986 Firebird 2.8l)

Nixon1

I was revving it in Park, not Neutral...same thing really. And yeah, I know it's not good on the engine...I can't help it though. When it IS revving right, it sounds so good..the baby screams! But today, all it was doing is crying. Now, what does the TCC locking and unlocking feel like?

Nixon1

PS-I haven't had the timing checked, nor inspected my sparkplugs.. But at least the ends that go into the wires seemed brand new. But ya don't really know until ya pull them out. Just I've got so much crap in the way that it's a true pain to get them out and put them back in..very inconvenient. Took me 15 minutes to plug my last spark plug wire in last time I fiddled with them..and it wasn't in far enough either, so I was losing spark. I've got brand new 7mm hi-temp silicone wires in there now..better than the crap that was there before that barely conducted anything. I didn't put 8 or 8.8 or anything in there because I figured it probably wouldn't make a difference in the world on that engine, so why spend the extra $15?

ChillPhatCat

I had MSD 8.5's on and they sucked... kept falling off the plugs and all. Then I went down to Autozone and bought a $15 set of 8's and haven't had a problem since. With the MSD's I would end up running on 7 cyls half the time.

[This message has been edited by ChillPhatCat (edited October 30, 2001).]

BitchinRS

I would definetly pull the plugs and check them. One time I forgot about my plugs and couldn't figure out why my Gas milage sucked so badly. When I checked them the electrodes were flush with the porcalin. So even though they are worn that badly the car will still run, but it will give you problems.

As far as the vibrations I would jack the car up first in the front and check all of the bushings and compnets then check the rear. My car would feel like it was going to fall apart when I hit 60 MPH . When i craled under to check it out I had a few torn bushings. After I replaced them the car would do 60 and beyound with no problem.