My car starts up without problem. It idle's fine too, but with a little hesitation periodically. As soon as I try to drive, the car either dies right away or runs really rough for a few seconds and then dies.

I've had problems with the timing before, so on a whim I disconnected the electronic timing cable and tried driving it. Well, the car ran rough, but it actually ran without stalling. I drove it around the block several times and it wouldn't die. It started hesitating when I floored it, but still didn't die.

I had a lot of ideas about what the problem could be, until it started running when I disconnected the timing cable. No I have no clue.

I've changed all the ignition parts relatively recently. SES light does not indicate that there are any codes being thrown.

Any ideas?

 

I'd start by getting a timing light & setting it to stock.
Remove you throttle body & give it a good cleaning, including the iac passages.
I'd also temporarily disable the egr, it might be sticking open, test drive it to see if it acts up.

 

Sounds like the injectors are shorting out. As they do the ECM can't drive them and they all stop firing. If the injectors are still the OEM Multecs just replace them.

RBob.

 

I replaced the stock injectors with the Ford F1ZE injectors and have been fine for a year... I have a timing light and have set the timing... the throttle body is clean and the IAC is relatively new...

I'll try messing with the EGR...

I wonder if a clogged Cat could cause these symptoms.

 

Good on changing the injectors, bet it made a big difference. Some other items to check:

Fuel pressure, 42 - 47 psi with the engine running and the vacuum line disconnected.

Check the two-wire pigtail that runs between the ignition coil and distributor. The wire likes to break inside of the insulation where it exits the coil connector.

Check the wiring around the ignition coil. There is a TSB where some cars had it routed incorrectly and will chafe through.

Of course the pickup coil and/or ignition module could be an issue.

And don't rule out the ECM. These '7730s like to fail in crazy ways, usually intermittent at that.

I don't think a clogged cat would cause these symptoms. Usually causes a loss of power.

RBob.

 

Sounds like you don't have enough fuel to me. What's your pressure running at? Plugged fuel filter?

 

I just played with my car again.

I double checked the timing, it was off by a few degrees, so I put it back to 10deg. Now the car runs equally crappy with the electronic timing cable connected. So I guess that symptom is out.

I checked the fuel pressure:

Key on, engine off: 42 psi
Engine on, idle: 38 psi
Engine Revving: 38-44 psi
Small Vacuum hose off: 40 psi
Large Vacuum hose off: 42psi (car barely running)

I disconnected the cable to the EGR valve and the car ran exactly the same. The SES light didn't come on either. I'm not sure if this is normal or not.

I disconnected the cable to the Evap Canister and it had no effect or code thrown.

I disconnected the MAP sensor and the car continued to run. A code was thrown and the engine died when I reconnected the MAP sensor.

I never thought about changing the ECM...

 

Remove the egr valve, sometimes a piece of carbon will get lodged in it, so it wont close.

 

I took out the EGR Valve. It looks like there are three solenoid controlled openings. They were all closed. I ran the car with the EGR Valve out and it was still running rough. I noticed the EGR valve didn't open while the car was idling. Under what conditions does the EGR valve open?

I haven't driven the car very much, but the car doesn't seem to be dying anymore. Just running crappy.

I'm off to buy a fuel filter...

 

OK, got fuel so that's not it. Did it just start doing this one day? How many miles? Is there anymore you can tell us? Could be anything from bad gas to a jumped timing chain(with the EGR inbetween)? I would think that it isn't the FPR, cause if it was say leaking bad enough to cause rough running, I would think that the pressure would be way off. Easiest way to check is if you are getting gas in your vacuum lines.

 

Yeah, it started doing it all of the sudden one day... A year and a half ago... I'm just now getting around to trying to fix it. 150k Miles...

 

It ran w/ the egr off? It should have idled very high.

 

Yes. It ran with the egr off. I didn't think to check the idle while it was off...

 

Are you using that 1 1/2 year old gas?

 

Yeah, its the old gas in there. I've heard mixed opinions about old gas... I never saw anything that really convinced me that it spoils. It was in the ground for millions of years, but we put it in our gas tanks and all of the sudden it goes bad. I guess I can try a new tank of gas.

 

Well I've bent pushrods using old gas. Doesn't take much to hydro lock a 4.3 with 4 1/2 year old gas. It was good for burning weeds but that's about it! Is it possible you got some "bad" gas when this started. Like it started doing this not long after filling up?

 

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Forget Everything before this point. Major Symptom
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I changed, the fuel filter and CTS, neither did anything. I tried driving the car around and I got the same major failure I got the first day this all happened. While driving, I floored it, then the car all of the sudden went from running rough to barely running at all. I managed to limp back home, but the car was running soooo rough.

The first time this happened, I eventually realized that the timing was WAY off. (Like -15deg, off the scale) I know for a fact that the distributor position did not change.

Today after my car took a turn for the worst, I checked the timing... Lo and behold, the timing was way off (again way below the scale). I just set the timing today and tightened it up well, I know the dizzy did not move.

tl;dr The timing jumped about 20 degrees without the dizzy moving.

What could possibly cause this?

 

Loose timing chain-probably jumped on you. That sucks!

 

I thought about the timing chain, but I know the one in there isn't loose. I changed it relatively recently and it only has a few thousand miles on it.

Oh, and this issue with the timing all of the sudden changing has happened before. Once, about 12 years ago when there were only had about 40k miles on it.

 

I suppose it is possible that you could be having a distributor gear/shaft issue. Does the car have the factory camshaft? Sometimes when people swap cams, the replacement cam calls for a different distributor gear, and I've seen things as simple as a rotor breaking and spinning on the shaft. Can you turn your rotor by hand?

 

What caused it back then?

 

No idea. I took it to a mechanic. They said the timing was off by 20 degrees and they adjusted it. They didn't even charge me. It was fine for years after that...

Oh, the cam is stock.

Something must be be going on in the distributor... This last time I was able to adjust the timing by turning the dizzy. I did think it was interesting that the final dizzy position was different that it originally was... Almost like it jumped a tooth on the gear... is that even possible?

 

Pop the dist cap, rotate the crank back & forth while watching the rotor, is should only have 8 degrees or so movement at the crank before the rotor turns. Make some marks at the timing tab or use the timing mark.
If its loose then you have a bad chain.
Its poss. the pin broke at the bottom of the dist.

 

Seen this before. The star wheel was loose on the distributor shaft.

RBob.

 

The star wheel? You mean the magnetic metal claw looking thing on the distributor shaft?

I think it's unlikely that the relatively new timing chain jumped a tooth. I doubt the cam or the distributor shaft is broken... A bad Ignition Coil, Ignition Module, or pickup wouldn't cause the timing to shift like mine did...That magnetic star wheel must be it.

I'm pretty sure it's integral to the distributor... I'll try to find a junk yard that has one.

 

see if it will turn independently of the distributor shaft. If so there's your problem.

 

I pulled the distributor out. The star wheel (pole piece?) is definitely loose. I guess she couldn't hold timing.

I'm not sure if I should try and JB Weld the part in place or if I should just buy a new distributor...

 

If you disassemble the distributor, you could braze the star wheel to the shaft. JB won't hold up for what you need. You will need to make sure the star wheel is running true to the shaft and not out of plum. Or you could just go get a reman with a warranty.

 

Well, I got the distributor fixed up, and now the car will hold timing, but something is still wrong.

The car seems to idle just fine, but as soon as I give it some gas, it starts hesitating.

I'm still not seeing any codes.

How often is the ECM to blame for these types of problems?

 

Try some fresh gas, and I don't remember, hows your mass air sensor?

 

I'm at the end of my rope... I don't know what I did, but now the car wont even run. I changed out the ECM... Nothing... I need some diagnostic tools or something. Maybe it's time I take it to a mechanic...

 

It disappoints me when stories end like this! It had all the suspense and it was about to climax...then ... it just ended. THANKS alot @ Blaze of Glory

 

Usually ends up being an EGR problem, these engines don't take much to run.

Bring it back to the basics...Fuel, Spark, Air
Check your compression.

 

True stuff, must rent compression , vacuum, and fuel testers ASAP.

 

i would checc the injectors again just to make sure. mine had injector problems and it would idle like a dream but as soon as i would give it gas it would bogg out and start to die. it doesn't sound possible but i had 5 injectors go out on me at once. checc the resistance of your injectors they should be i think between 8-12 or 10-15 ohms of resistance.

 

old thread , but what ever became of that car? im having the same problem with the same car... and im at a loss right now

 

The car is running and running well with 170k miles. It ended up being the distributor. I had replaced the ICM, pick up coil, and jb-welded the loose distributor pole piece and nothing worked. Eventually I just bought a new distributor assembly, installed it and the car ran like new.

 

If you have the original distributor, installing a new or rebuilt one is a good idea. This is a weak point on these cars.