fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

ATDC... after top dead center? wow.

project89

iTrader: (1)

yeah when u push the clutch into the floor and go above 30% tps the system brings the timing to 10* after top dead center and adds in 25% more fuel up intill 2300 rpms thats the low limit

the high limit i set to 2500 rpms
once the rpms reach the high limit it goes into spark cut mode once this happes it allows raw fuel into the headers which get ignited by the really late ignition timming

basically we light the fuel off in the turbine housing which skyrockets the presure and heat in the headers.

esentially its pretty much like making the turbine a real turbine engine

the cool thing is u can shoot about 3-4 ft of flame sout the tailpipes if u wanted to. ill be using the same system on my iroc which ill have to get some pics of the system active at night should make a dam cool picture with flames shooting out the side of the car behind the front tires.

lol prolly have to do it while doing a burnout as well


this sytem spins the turbo up lightning fast.

we could have pils car build 30 psi if we wanted to

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

So sould I add timing or take fuel out in the low boost areas?

And also what is your opinion in the 80-100kpa areas before boost is build as my timing is from 33* at 83kpa to 30* at 99kpa

project89

iTrader: (1)

one thing at a time , get the afrs to 12.5 across the run.

u never do afr and timing changes at the same time


as far as the timing it depends on what rpm its at

but for now lets get the afrs sorted then ill look at the logs to see how ur timing is in the 80-100 kpa ares

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Attatched is my timing table as is.

Ok dave Ill just get at the Afr first and formost for now.

project89

iTrader: (1)

i cant open that

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Hope you can still read it, I hate linking stuff sometimes as its to small or blury. EDIT give me a sec Ill fix the picture

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Here it is:

project89

iTrader: (1)

at first i wa sliek wtf thats backwards then i relized it is indeed backwards from what im used to

with ms the rpms go across the bottom from left to right and the kpa is on the left from the bottom to top


just leave that as is for now dial in the afrs first, then well make some changes to the timing map, then ull have to go back to ve then to timing etc etc

timing changes will change ur afrs

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

Spool up mode is not enabled yet in $59. It's in V25 (IIRC) of $59, the current public release is V18.

Remember to use the $3e MAP filter when adjusting spark. While the values are not that much different between the $3f and $3e filters they are different enough to maybe adjust the wrong cell trying to get SA adjusted where you want it.

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

What is $3e and $3f filteres, six? Im sorry I dont know what that means.

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

Look in the ADX, there are two 3 BAR MAP values, one is labeled "3f", the other is labeled "3e."

The VE table(s) use 3f, the SA table (F1 at least) uses 3e. The curve to the MAP input is slightly different between them. Don't ask me, why it's a left over from $58, GM must have had their reasons.

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

What do you guys reccoment for the AFR when first 100% Tps? Ive got 14.5:1 is that too lean? Then its going down to 13-12.5 up to 6psi. Thats All I got tuned so far.

project89

iTrader: (1)

datalog?

does the motor hesitate or stumble when u go wot ?

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

No it just lights the tires up in a rush causing a whole bunch of KR. Definitly more responcive.
Its not pretty with all the KR but the plugs dont have specs on them.

I cant tell if it spools up better as I know that car doesnt spool up near as quick when its just pealing off the tires. I need to make another run but fixed a cell or 2 in the bin.

project89

iTrader: (1)

well that log starts at 100% tps but shows u lift then go back into the throttle looks like ae is much much closer now.

going rich in the top of first gear, looks pretty good in 2nd and third

and yeah there is kr all over that log, if it was real u would be able to hear the motor pinging since it says 5 counts of kr at one point

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Yea I let off because the tires were spining badd. I guess the days of street 1/4 miles are over. Im going to make a few adjustments then go for a ride here in about 30 minuets.

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

I took it for another ride, it was better untill I got to 12psi+ since it over boosted a tad, then went leaner like high 12's and then hit the low 13's!! SO I let off the gas very fast. Ran out of time for the day to tune. But im getting there. I may race on wednesday at a amature race at the local track if its nice. Only bad thing is im not lugging those slicks over there in my car with a jack. So street tires should be interesting....

Im interested to see what my trap speed will be with my street tires since there about 2 inches shorter then those slicks.

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Look at this!!!!!!! 16.5psi in those slick and made those ET street slicks wrinkle. That was the 2.02 60ft pass.

That POWER on a V6 all day. Im amazed at it right now!

See the smile on my face..LOL

project89

iTrader: (1)

urtrack lets u run without a helmet?
before u goto the track unhook one side of the front swaybar, it will let the front end come up when u launch and put wieght on the back tires.


u only have to disconect one of the front endlinks for it to work

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

Nice, there should be no doubt after looking at that picture, why I like 6 cylinders with boost.

I try to get a slight rich spike when mashing the throttle. You might want to richen up the upper parts of the TPS AE table.

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

As long as your running 14.00+ times you can go without a helment. I just just tuning so I didnt wear one, although I usually do just because I feel safer.

You know a guy last weekend told me about disconecting the sway bar.Ill have to try that next time.

@ sixshooter..yea V6's are a blast thats forsure!
Also you right I think the upper AE needs some work still as its a tad lean for my taste.

Gumby

hit ebay, offroad site..... they have come up with designs for quick disconnects for sway bars as its helpful to them off road.

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

You mean somthing like this?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Universal-Re...d5810f&vxp=mtr



I took the car for a spin this afternoon, sometimes this Kr is killing me, look at this very short log and see tell me what you think. Those plugs are all fine on the car. The Kr kicks in before the boost even comes in, also At the track the other day I noticed that I will have Kr when I let off at the traps and it will literly drag out for awhile. It wont go away even though there is no load on the car, and im just coasting.

One of these days Im going to find whats causing the Kr and laugh at what it is.

If you de-desentisize the knock sensor will it still read real Kr like it should?

Gumby

well you need double thread ends like on this page but Im sure you can fab up something yourself.

http://www.northwestoffroad.com/part...components.php

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Ok gumby, next time I hit the track I make a hit with the sway bar on then one with it off. It its better then Ill get on fabing somthing up.

Im dreaming again...who wants to loan me some $$ for this stuff..
http://www.ebay.com/itm/water-alcoho...62d03a&vxp=mtr

Or this.. im not picky
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Snow-Perform...2f3884&vxp=mtr

Gumby

run a hose from your windshield washer pump into your intake, use a relay to activate only at WOT.

no really

Azrael91966669

just use a cordless impact at the track thats what i did

project89

iTrader: (1)

that wont work , windshield washer pump only puts out a couple psi of presure.MUch less then the amount of presure he has in the intake, the boost would actually force the fluid back into the bottle and then he would have a boost leak.

not to mention even if it had a few more psi then what was in the intake it wouldnt be enough to atomize the washer fluid/alky so it would be big liquid drops which does nothing


the only way to use the washer pump is to have it spray be compressor wheel i.e turbo inlet, but since he has an intercoller the liquid would collect in there


if he really wants a meth kit he can piece together a real meth kit for around 120 bucks with a good pump good nozzle and the hobbs switch

project89

iTrader: (1)

i used to use a ratchet once u take that nut on and off 1-2 times and put oil on it its very easy to get off.

eventually i just ditched my front swaybar all together though

Azrael91966669

i cant stand the way the car handles without it

project89

iTrader: (1)

yeah my v6 car was no longer under daily driver status when i did it, if it was still my daily driver the sway bar would have stayed on it.

Gumby

Oh I know that, just trying to make him think.

Farm boys using back yard science who had no clue why it worked invented that.

first use I do believe for general public was Holley use to sell a kit for big RVs back in the day to boost power n MPG.

And im sure some other apps in between but not till Buick showed what a boosted 6 can do, did anyone use real science to build proper kits.

Im sure he can find an inbetween too for less.

project89

iTrader: (1)

cheapest he could do it with the "right stuff" woudl be

sureflo pump 65$
correct nozzle = 15 bucks
hobbs switch = 15 bucks
methanol compatable line = 10 bucks
misc fittings/wiring and relays about 20 bucks


about 135 bucks for the same thing as the snow or coolingmist kits

and yes i do belive the first kits were made by holley back in the day for carb'ed engines.

here u go great place for diy kit info and prices/parts list
http://www.turbomirage.com/water-alc...arts-list.html

i would just use a checkvalve and not the 40$ soiliniod

RBob

iTrader: (1)

That is quite a lot of KR, definitely need to do something about it. Being that it is from tire spin, likely if the sensor is desensitized enough then it also won't pick up real knock.

You can try re-torquing the sensor to about 11 ft/lbs. If it was overtightened that will make it too sensitive. Can also mount it on a 45* elbow, a brass one will lower the sensors sensitivity.

The other item is a different knock filter. the only one that looks to be less sensitive and within the proper frequency range is form a 2.0L Turbo Grand Am (LT3 engine). From '85 - '91. If you can find either just the MEMCAL or one of the cars in the JY get the MEMCAL from it.

Will need to change the injector firing rate resistor, or move the filter from that MEMCAL to a V6 MEMCAL.

RBob.

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

I know this video is mainly 4 bangers but I could just listen to turbos all dammmm night. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gn-AoxKQB90

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Finally got a minuet to drive the car and see where its at. Im back to the slow spool up again. Crap makes me mad, so tommorow for about a hour is all I have to toy with it. Been busy at this new union shop job for Hvac.

Also The AFRs are ok, I think and also the AE mode is too rich when I lay into the throttle slow but if I go WOT from a dead stop at the track with slicks its fine? I dont quite understand that.

I did shift a little higher on the one time I got to drive it today(or all week). It seemed to like it. Shifted at about 5800 into 2nd and 6000 into third. I think thats enough extra rpms for that stock bottome end. I attatched a datalogg. The KR is nice and the intake temps are actually undercontrol on a 75 AB condition.

Oh yea, on my tune I was aiming at those mid 11's and high AFR's on the top end of the track to help prevent KR>

So there are some items better but the laggy spool up is ticking me off.

You guys wana know how I got rid of the excessive KR??? I just shift it manually and it seems to be very minimal. Any ideas why?

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Also: I know this EGR shouldnt be here but the plate I made was not thick enough so this has been just to plug the air in/out. Can anyone tell me where the helll this is leaking from?? Theres no gaskets or anything I know to take off to see where its coming from? Im still new to the whole bosot thing as the car doesnt have any ex leaks there when its just idling, but I understand that under boost the ex pressure is very high and will leak out of areas such as this?



Obvously I need to rid up a better plate for the egr so I can take it off again.


Also does this look normal for about 1k miles on the turbo? That black crap was in there when I was checking for boost leaks a few weeks back. That carb cleaner will clean everything..opps.
Intake side

project89

iTrader: (1)

make a better egr blockoff not sure where it could be leaking from though looks like its leakingabove the mounting surface



and yeah thats normal

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

I gotta say. HOLY SHI#. Check the log dave! Made full bost in 1st now, If you really look at the log I spun the tires at 42MPH.

WOW all I did was remade some egr block offs. There 1/4 inch stainless steel. PITA to cut with with the tools I have but wow is all I can say. I could actaully hear the wastegate opening then closing then opening. Boost was amazing and I was going 116mph before I knew it.

Well know we all know why it was so laggy. But not anymore. I actaully hooked the boost controler up because the first attemt to just go WOT through 1st netted a 15psi spike, so I need to just play with the tune a hair for the duty cycle for the WG, but over all...wow! Is all I can say.

Afrs need work though as Ive been shifting manually out of 1st to prevent the faulse KR, 13 is just too high for my taste even though the car likes it. That boost is like crack for that car. Im going to hook the controler to make 12.5 psi as that 13.5 or so spike is getting to my injectors at those high rpms in 1st, and to be honest I dont feel like rasing the fuel pressure again. So Ill give it a shot at 12.5 psi, add a drop of fueling, and see what happends

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Dissregard that log above. Look at this one! Also I taped the ending result of the g-tech. The car is way better now without the leak.

Never have I ever seen a g-tech of under 14.30 in the past.

Im excited to see what happends next friday at the track. Ill do the math on the log later to see the 0-80mph 0-100mph time and such to compare to my older files but it is def boosting much harder. At the top end of the run there was some KR and I truly believe that was real KR as its freaking hot out today. About 85 degrees out already. May need to take timing out there, or drop the boost level on the bin at higher MPH. As I want to make sure I have a safe tune for both hot and cool temps.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Os8cb...ature=youtu.be

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Heres some data from that log above to compliment the mph/seconds times

Come on now can I please hit 13's now? Well see this weekend.

0-60mph 4.95
0-80mph 8.03
0-100mph 12.55
0-105mph 14.00

project89

iTrader: (1)

nice now u just need to get it back to the track

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Does the boost build look about right now? Considering the exhuast routing?

project89

iTrader: (1)

didnt look at the log yet been figthing the tune on my car atm
see anything wrong with this?

project89

iTrader: (1)

boost looks good ur deffintaly out of injector,
log didnt include manifold air temp so i couldnt look at that


call up or send southbay a message see how much for a set of 42# injectors
they may also be able to modify ur current injectors to flow more for pretty cheap

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Theres no map based AE BPW addition? Or are you using Delta TPS only?

Did you look at the 2nd log, it was better, injector wise. I was manualy shifting out of 1st and thats really where the injec dc went to crap. I always could just add another 3-4psi to help but to be honest I dont have time this week. Ill have to contact southbay sometime soon.

opps for the intake temps.. went from 87* at the beginning to 157* at the top end of the run. Not horrible from what im use to on a hot day.

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

Dave has already said he only uses one or other for AE contribution, when using MS.

project89

iTrader: (1)

yeah i wa sonly using 100% tps based but it should still allow me to put values in for the map side

i was actually switching to a 50/50 blend of map/tps ae


but the main problem is look at the volts a second on the tps side
everytime i flash the tune it screws up my settings

i finaly tracked down my issue though its my usb to serial adapter , it works fine with windows xp but on windos 7 its screws up when i flash the tune

this is what my tune should look like


ive been fighting this issue for weeks im just glad i finally figured it out, now i need to get a new battery for my dell, thing dies soon as u unplug it so ive been using my brand new hp laptop with windows 7 instead and thats been causing all my headaches


ive looked at the logs i think ur money would be better spent on meth injection before injectors
ur intercooler is going to start to be to small for the power ur going to make

look at that link i gave u a page back for the diy meth systems and start getting parts to put one together meth shold bring ur aits down to around 80* or less with the intercooler


and dont run blue washer fluid

get a 5 gallon fuel jug from summit or ebay and buy 100% methanol from the track it should be about 2-2.50 a gallon to buy and it lasts a long time

RBob

iTrader: (1)

For the best possible tune get injectors that are carried by Ford Motorsports. They provide the compensation values for them. The data needs to be crunched which I'll do for you. All I need is the base fuel pressure and which injector it is.

For 42#/hr the skinny greens are available, Bosch #280-155-968

Although I am not sure which connector they use. If you are planning on 25+ psi of boost, the Siemans Deka 60#/hr Mototron injector is a good choice. Also have the compensation specs for those.

What bothers me about the injector DC%, is that GN injectors in a smaller engine (3.1L versus 3.8L), should be good for more then 12 psi of boost. I get the feeling that the fuel delivery/pressure is not keeping up. A stock GN runs 12 - 14 psi of boost.

For an inexpensive alky set up that works, use a tank that gets pressurized via boost pressure. Then spray pre-turbo. Only need enough to control the intake air temperature.

RBob.