fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Im just wanting 12's and the engine to be safe from detination. But yes it would be awsome to see numbers like that. Injectors are next on the list, hope to pick some up on either next week or the following week. I never thought id see mid-low 13's but im already there on just 12psi of boost with that bad exhaust routing. So im excited to see what its capible of in the next few months.

project89

iTrader: (1)

yup noone wants to belive me that iron heads with a lil bit of boost will do incredibale things,u would have to push that thing into the 10's to start stressing the motor. funy thing is ur motor prolly has tighter tolerences on the bearings then my brand new 3.1 has

when i built my motor i ran a vert tight pistion to wall clearnace with a loose top rin and loose main and rod bearings witht he modified oil pump for high rpm

the alky will push the need for injectors away a lil bit, when u run 100% methanold u are adding fuel so u have to dial back the injectors slightly

witht he meth injection and the small nozzle u will prolly be able to hit about 12.5 before u need new injectors

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Yea thats another reason I really looked into the alky injection as I figured the added meth would ease the injectors enough that I could wait a few weeks or so to buy new injectors. It was either injectors or the alky injection I was buying this week, and since its going to be summer soon here(high temps) I though the alky was a safe bet to make sure my intake temps are under control. As they get up there on hot days at the track.

12's do have a good ring to them for a lil iron headed beast.

I have to say, that I know there was a few times I pushed this engine a little since I was new at tuning but yet I didnt wound it. The compression is still the same as before the turbo and really it still seems fine. Amazes me that I probly doubled the HP and it likes it??

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

The one time I really wish I had a video camera rolling from a distance... Since I didnt get the alky stuff today I just took the car out for a light ride and got some gas. On the way back I was thinking why not go sideways arround this turn onto my road...mind you, Im not use to this car having power like that arround a turn

But basically I drifted arround it, a little too much so when the car started to come back the other way there was nothing I could do but just hold on and let her go arround. I literly did a 180 right in the middle of the road! And i never even stoped when the car came to be straight again. Its like the car planned it. LMAO. I just love this lil six shooter!

I really need to find a nice parking lot with NO police presence, I cant afford any sort of ticket.. And get a buddy to take some vids of me doing this sort of stuff. All left turns of coures to ensure it has posi.

This post is sorta info-less but its a good story to the build. Alky kit will hopefully..be here tommorow.

project89

iTrader: (1)

i think u should take the turbo off before u hurt yourself or the car.better yet ill even be willing to take it off ur hands to keep that from happening lmfao

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Well the alky injection didnt come today, sometimes i hate ebay as I can be anxous. But since its hot as crap out today I though it would be a good day to toss back in the old WG spring and tune for 90 degree+ weather.

The reason for me tuning a file like this is "just in case" the alky dies at the track or anything other reason. I now have a "safe" hot day tune w/o alky(in my files) and it only took me 3 hrs of playing to get it somewhat right. I know im slow but its my day off and this is relaxing.

So Im tuning for 10psi command and in the 11.7 to 12.3 for AFRs on commanded boost. I was sorta close on the AFR's but its close enough for the day and I really liked how I got the afr's to stay in the mid/high 11's when the intake temps got up there and MPH was high.

I linked the file for the results(9 chips later)

I have noticed that ever since I fixed that ex boost leak my wategate is much more touchy, going up and down more, as I can hear it. Thats normal? As Ive been playing with the WG on the ecm and it really isnt helping. It doesnt matter if I have the stronger spring in or this below 7psi one.

It does still spool fast considering im on the street where I cant launch at all without a masssive burnout(0% tps to 100% tps launch). But when it starts to make boost to the command(.34-10.17psi) it only takes about 1 1/2 seconds in the log and that was with a burnout. So its still making me happy with the responce in boost with my rigged exhaust routing.

Also keep in mind that in that logg I did a nice long burn out throughout most of 1st gear so I really didnt do any math on the log since it wouldnt be right and im 99.999% sure that KR at the begining was from my long burnout. Thankfully it was still accelerating while doing the burnout.

It was 93 degrees as of my thermometer on this run. So id say I have a nice safe tune there for a hot day without the alky. So when the alky comes at least I have a base of what is safe with 10psi and 90+ degrees out without the alky. I dont like seeing 150 degree intake temps but on a hot day like today, and 13-14 seconds of WOT boost with my cheep intercooler, ill take it and just wait for the kit to get here so that I can lower that.

This tune in my opinion...at the track with a boosted launch would probly only make a 14.0 pass but for how hot it is and the lower boost and retarded timing, id be happy. Since Id rather have her slower then blow up.

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Just wanted to update this thread since I added alky injection. First Ive only re-tuned one chip since I added the alky. Its conservitive and I was aiming at 11.0-11.5 AFR's through out the pull when full boost is there. Im using some 49/50 mix stuff for now. And I will be making a pass(fingers crossed) tommorow after work.

What Id like to see is if my car is as fast with the 11psi I plan to run tommorow as the 12.5 I was running prior. I know that alky injec usually slows the car down a little when its added and not tuned much but honestly it "feels" like the car is just as fast as before with more boost, but I guess we will see tommorow. I just hope for any 13 in the 1/4 mile, thats impressive I would think with only 11psi of boost on my engine. I usually do the math on the dataloggs so that I can see what the times(may be in the 1/4 mile) But its hard when I do bad burn outs so your guess is as good as mine. I looked at the split time from 80Mph(1/8 mile) to roughly 102Mph and came up with a 5.31 seconds. Thats a shot in the dark estimate but its close to those 13 sec runs.

Yes Id like to push it tommorow, but in all honestly I dont have time to tune. So I burnt one chip made a log and attatched it in excel for anyone who wants to take a look.

In the log, I abvously did a burn out as always(hense the KR), till about 20mph.LOL. And it was HOT(85+) and HUMID out today. Stinking hot! Keeping the intake temps about 10 * at the most above the ambient is impressive. As I was pushing 150-160* before on a hot day like today. So Im seeing a solid 60* drop in temps and im not to sure my IAT sensor is reading the true coolest point.

I plan to run real alky in the next few weeks and wont make it to the track for 2 more so we will see what it can do with alky and some more timing/boost.

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Horrible pic of the alky nozzle, its just going to have to work for tommorow as I cant mod it from what is there at the moment.

Do you think my IAT is really higher or is it way lower then what im real time reading?

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Fixed it for ya...

project89

iTrader: (1)

leave it as is fast, u will learn what a normal reading from it is with it setup like that after a few boost pulls.

moving the sensor away from the nozzle more would give a much cooler air temp reading but as long a su can figure out whats a normal reading u will be able to tell if something goes wrong

u are using the small nozzle right? hurry up and burn up that boost juice crap to the 100% methanol will work much better

btw heres a test for you , wait for a really hot day pour a tiny bit of the 100% meth on ur hand and watch how fast it evaporates and how cold ur hand gets. once its evaporated do the same witht he boost juice and u will see the difference

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Made it to the track its was 92 and 93 degrees out side air temps on my 2 runs. With the 11psi and soft tune I went 13.89 with the mix and a 13.66 with the 100% alky.

It was richer though at the start of the run, as my 1/8 mile was slower but my 1/4 split was faster. I traped 102 mph on that 13.66 pass and a slow 98mph on the mix(13.89 pass)

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Few concerns, why does my fuel pressure drop when I free rev the car? Could there be a possibility that my AFRP is gone bad already? Its just a ebay cheepie. I keep woundering why my Injec DC is gotten higher. I doubt it is the fuel pump. I can only adjust the AFPR so high at idle with no vac. And sometimes I find myself reajusting the AFPR to get to the 55psi with no reference, every few times I race the car. Weird but its innoying as I cant turn up the boost or advance the timing now that I have the alky because Im running out of fuel.

freaky

i'd use a walboror pump but thats just me
a 255

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Thats what I have

project89

iTrader: (1)

fp drops cause when u free rev and let off there is ahuge amount of vacum being applied to the regulator when vacum on the refrence port will reduce fuel presure , positive presure i.e boost will incvrease it

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

I mean its droping when it revs up not when I let off...

project89

iTrader: (1)

when u free rev the motor up u will have a huge vacum spike for a split second

it dont matter what it does when u free rev it , it only matters what it does under boost

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Ok, well my DD took a crap this morning, the idle pully sezed up and rosted me belt leaving me stranded on the way to work, Now insted of making $ today Im paying it out.. Oh well. Ill hook up a guage on the camaro to see what its doing under boost since i have the day off now.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

A quick test is to remove the vacuum line from the FPR. Then while observing the FP gauge give the throttle a brief WOT. If the fuel pressure drops...

RBob.

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

It does drop when I do that with the vac line OFF the AFPR. Whats that mean? Regulator problems of the walbro is going already?

I have the PSI set to 55psi without the reference line. It drops about 10psi when I do a quick WOT in park with the reference line off. Thanks for any help guys.

Also before I forget, If I attempt to raise the base fuel pressure up past 55psi, It will not go any higher at all. Its a pretty cheep AFPR so mabey its just shot? I hope its that and not the fuel pump or some sort of restriction.


EDIT: I went out and droped the fuel pressure down to the stock PSI, so that the stock FPR was in control. There is no vac line on my stock FPR either. The pressure would drop a hair, such as from 43-42psi? It wasnt much of anything. I do now think it is just the AFPR that is the problem. The main thing that is the worrie some is that when at idle and part throttle the fuel pressure is ok, but under boost!! Is a way different problem as im maxing out my injectors again(85%+ DC) Ive just noticed this the past few weeks, since I haven't really raced or tuned it in awhile.

Id like to see if mabey there is a way to tear into it to confirm that it is indeed broken? If so I need to just stop being cheep and get larger injectors before I go crazy as a "good" AFPR is as much almost as some injectors from southbay.

project89

iTrader: (1)

its becaus eu have 2 regulators, were are u measuring the fuel presure at the rail or at the second addon regulator?

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

On the 2nd regulator, so why is the FP droping so much with the Vac line off and why cant i adjust it to over 55psi. I just am trying to see how I went from having 70% DC's up to 90+ plus again.

project89

iTrader: (1)

its because the first regulator is restricting flow to the 2nd regulator, the right thing to do would be to bypass the first regulator but its a pain in the butt on the v6 fuel rail.

witht he sudden fuel demand the first regulator is barley passing enough fuel to the second regulator so its takes a lil bit of time for the fuel presure to build back up

it would involve welding an aluminum cap over the hole were the stock fp regulator is then drilling and tapping the upper portion of the fuel rail for a fitting for the regulator/return line


try testing again with the fuel prewsure gauge on the fuel rail instead of the second regulator and i bet u fuel presure barley drops

the addon regulator was just an addon to get u by on ur current injectors even though ur at the sam eboost level now u have meth injection so the air is cooler and more dense require more fuel driving ur pw up again


its time for new injectors



btw i had this same issue on my car when i was running a gran national fp regulator tied into my return line

RBob

iTrader: (1)

I didn't realize that you were running two FPRs in series. Checking it at the rail as Dave mentioned is the best way to do it.

As for not being able to go above 55 psi by adjusting the regulator, apply 20 psi of compressed air to the vacuum port on the FPR. That should raise the fuel pressure by 20 psi above the 55 psi.

RBob.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

Would a simple block off plate work in place of the FPR on the fuel rail? Or is it that the return port for it on the rail is, or nearly is, as tall as the top for the rail surface? Might be able to remedy that by drilling it out.

RBob.

34blazer

actually that seems like a good idea, another would be to get the rrfpr for the TPI cars, thats what i currently have on my rail. i have the BBK 1:1

project89

iTrader: (1)

the feed and return lines bolt to a block ontop of the rail

basically the v6 rail has 2 passages one passage feeds both banks of the motor,then the regulator allows fuel into the secons passage which feeds back to the return line fitting.

a block off plate would work inplace of the stock fpr but id be a bit uneasy about trusting that to not leak.

then again if u gutted the stock fpr and welded the vacum refrence hole shut and bolted that back on with a gasket i could see that working

doing that would remove the restriction and allow the right amount of fuel o flow to the adjustable regulator and allow it to not get a dip in fuel presure


but as it stands now if he were t measure fuel presure at the rail the stock regulator ( 1st one in the series ) wont let fuel presure drop at the rail when he first goes wide open,and by the time he gets into boost the second regulator will have caught up and brought the fuel presure back up..



i would leave it as is since the car is tuned and working, once u get new injectors u will be removing the second afpr anyways the stock regulator ill bring fuel presure up 1:1 with boost

just rember u only installed the second afpr to bring up presure to extend the range of current injectors.

once u get a set of 42-50# injectors it will no longer be needed

project89

iTrader: (1)

rbob here is a pic of the stock fuel rail so u can see how the regulator works

the block on the right side is were the feed and return lines bolt to

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

I will try the added PSI on the AFPR port on saturday after work. I will also check the FP at the rail itself first. It does seem as if I need to just contact Southbay as its the easieset, and not that exspencive of a way to go. I'll just limp along at the track next weekend at low boost till I get the injectors.

Thanks for all the info dave, I sure didnt know thats how the rail worked.

project89

iTrader: (1)

deff get new injectors id get atleast 48 or 50's then ur only limiting factor will be the turbo

that turbo should do 475ish hp at high boost from there the next step is a 60-1 or t61 which can push u close to 600 total and 50's will get u there with the meth
and the larger turbo will make the same power with lower boost

RBob

iTrader: (1)

I understand the fuel rail setup. The question was, if the return port on the rail is down far enough from the top of the rail surface, then a block off plate is easy. I've done that with other GM FPR set ups, using the stock/current diaphragm with the center cut out to use the outer ring as the gasket.

Just haven't had the chance to pull apart a 2.8l or 3.1l rail to see how much room there is. That is between the top of the return port where the FPR seals and the top surface of the rail.

Quick and easy. A 1/8" thick, or so, round (or even square) piece of aluminum with the mounting holes drilled and the stock FPR is gone. Doesn't even need to be high-tech, as long as it is flat to seal.

RBob.

project89

iTrader: (1)

yeah a flat piece bolted were the fpr is would work, i would just use the stock top remove the diaphram and use the outer edge of it as the gasket and bolt that one with the vacum refrence port welded shut.

that would be easier them cutting out a pice of plate and drilling all the holes, but then again u could use the stock fpr top as a template for drilling the mounting holes

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Im awaiting southbay so in the mean time I had some time to play with the car after work. I redid all the wiring for the alky injection. Did it right this time with heat shrink on everything and wire sheating..exc to ensure all the connections are safe and well sealed.

Also wired in a LED for the boost contact. I have to say its pretty cool to see that red light on once the boost kicks in. On a funny note, I got mad at the car today so I turned the FP up past where the guage on the AFPR doesnt move(53-55psi) Took it for a spin and AFR's perfect for having my full exhaust on. 10.9-11.4 the whole time when alky was on. Actually went 120mph....just had too seeing those nice AFR's and not a drop of KR. The only reason I did it was becuase I didnt see a car in site on the 4 lane road down from my house. Have to say that was the fastest I've went in this car ever with the exception of one time . Still amazes me the power of that car. 1 year ago it would of taken miles and would of never gotten to that speed, Id say 1/2 mile or a little further as of now. But I'd like to add I don't speed like that often, why do that when I have a track 20min away..

The thing that was funny was that my Injec. DC was only up to 84% peak when I was doing that pull at 12psi. Weird how it was basically 9X% plus the other day when it was hotter out at the track. Im just tired of that AFPR and can't wait to toss on larger injectors.

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Update: 48 lbs injectors will be in the car hopefully by friday. That should keep my fueling happy for some time to come

On the bad side I put a dent in my exhaust piping that goes into the turbo, right on the manderal bend. So hopefully I get time to replace the section. I already cut her off, just need to get the bend and hook it back up. I guess 2,000 miles after the install I was due to trash the under k-member pipe a little. I did this last night and looked at it today and there it was, nothing to major but it was a good 1inch dent that went about 1/2 into the pipe from a big a$$ rock that got flung into it. I live near a quarry.

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Well besides the fact that I hate exhuast piping and sealing it up.. my injectors are coming this week. Might get to try them out this weekend at the track if all goes well

I did see today that my AFPR is not working anymore period. The stock one works fine and maintains the FP it should, and I didn't do anything to it. It was just a cheepo so oh well no big loss.

Oh yea @Rbob, I did the test with 15psi on the reference port.. no increase at all in fuel pressure compared to atmo.(pressure)

I am also thinking that I can just change the F28 to tune the injectors in, shouldn't take long at all. But then I think "what about the offset"?

I only messed with the car for a few minuets after a long work day but today was one of those days when I just didn't want anymore problems so I left it be.

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Now that im attempting to fix my exahust I am really thinking of taking a few weeks off on the car and getting the exhaust the way it should??? Dave or anyone? Can someone fab up just the headers for me basically everything to the turbo, im to the point where I need to get it done in a hurry and I will take forever to do it myself. I really like the log style ones as there cheeper to build.

Let me know anyone....$$$$ Im dead serious!!

project89

iTrader: (1)

i got ya , drop me a pm ill get back to ya later ive been up for dam near 48 hours time for a long *** nap

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Thank you southbay!! Finally have the fuel my car wants.

On the other note though, I am tearing down the exhaust for a few weeks in hopes that I can either make my own drivers side logg up or get one off someone to last me through the rest of the year. I cant stand to drive with the under k memeber anymore!..lol.

project89

iTrader: (1)

keep the under k setup for now and get that thing to the track with the new injectors.

like i said i can take care of ur header needs in 2 weeks we can have u rolling on a setup like pilsburys car by the end of july

if u want i can pm u the materials list now so u can start picking up the materials just let me know

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

OK well I cant make it to the track this weekend I know that, too much work as its like 100* outside literly. I work in HVAC so that crap breaks alot.

I might go on wednesday just for 1-2 time trials on the amature night.

And next weekend there arent any races so I cant race it for litlery 2 weeks from now, thats why I was thinking I should just go ahead and get the exhaust done now in the next 2-3 weeks..

project89

iTrader: (1)

well if i build u that header , u will just have to unbolt the stock manifold and bolt the new one on and then connect the crossover, shouldnt take but a day to make the switch.

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

I though of building it and it doesnt look hard at all, its just the plate on the face of the block, that looks like a pita to make. How do you cut out the holes so well?

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Those plates dont look to thick? Honestly dave i think i can make the pass header on my own, and get you to make up some real style headers in the upcoming weeks if you can. I just need some guidence on the pass log header. I though I saw a link in the past of the measurements anyways and the material? Happend to know where it was or am i just thinking wrong?

project89

iTrader: (1)

those plates are 3/8s for some reason in the picture they dont look it.

if u can build that log i can still do the same deal on the other header for u, i sent u a parts list to build that log the hardest part of building the log is making the merger were the x over conects i have beter pictures of it in my photobucket

project89

iTrader: (1)

we made the head/header flanges with a sawzall and a hand drill

sawzalled them to size then marked out the center of the plate for a 1.5 inch hole and then marked out the mounting hole locatuions and then drilled the mounting holes and center 1.5 inch hole

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

OK well either way I still want you to build up the other side if not this side, If I can get a grasp on the pass side a little better as for the measurements I should be able to fab that up very fast. The only thing is the flange that will need to connect the x over as the driverside will have the stock on and the pass will have what ever I put on it? Which im not sure of yet.

What kind of metal did you guys use on the plates? jsut 3/8" steel?

Oh ok, I got ya on the holes, that seems pretty easy. What size is the pipeing for the "basically primarys" and the main run of pipe?

southbay08

you are so very welcome!!

project89

iTrader: (1)

1.5 inch primarys
2.5 inch x over and log
plain cold rolled 3/8's steel ( hot rolled will also work)

i will pm u the measurements
also u have to remove the smog pump to run this setup

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

OK dave,
Heres what Ive got in the shop.

4-45* manderal 2 1/2" pipe
2-90* manderal 2 1/2" pipe
A good 10ft of straight 2 1/2" pipe, a few couplers

And 2 of these.. These would work fine for the flange on the pass side correct? Then reuse the drivers side flanges for now.

project89

iTrader: (1)

yes that stuff will work u will prolly need one extra 2.5 inch mandrel to make the x over pipe,

yes 3 bolt on one side and stock on the other side but dont cut the flange of the ypipe then u wont be able to sell it somone, any ex shop should be able t get u the flange to connect to the manifold until i build u a real header

btw when u make the head/header flanges make 6 then i can just have u send me out 3 to build the header for ya with