XxXChrisGXxX

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I have a hard vibration when I brake hard. It will continue in [D] for as long as I hold the brake pedal down even when completely stopped. SO I'll brake hard, then the car will vibrate bad and continue too until I release my foot. I can hear the belt vibrating bad. It will go away as soon as I hit the gas or release the brake pedal.

I just changed the RMS and Cam gasket so I just took out and put in the transmission, new tranny mount, and new engine mounts. I also have new rotors, bearings, and pads. I took apart the caliper slide pins and bolts and used ultra caliper lube.

I cannot figure it out. I believe it has to do with engine vacuum. It did not do this before the transmission replacement, W T F.

Torque converter bolts are torqued, flywheel bolts torqued, torque arm in the bracket, transmission full with fluid, and new brake booster hose.

Anyone have any clue? Sorry for the second thread but I'm clueless.

vwdave

Check the vacuum hose going to the booster for leaks, make sure the booster itself is not leaking internally. Did the transmission have a hard time going back in? Maybe the engine rocked back and broke something?

XxXChrisGXxX

iTrader: (1)

Yea it did because I did it by myself on a dirt driveway...lol. I jacked the engine up too put new mounts in as well, but what could it of broke? There is only wire looms over the transmission...right? I put a brand new piece of hose going from the booster to the T, and checked the check valve seems to work as it should. I doubt it is leaking internally I get good brake assistance.

I dont know I'm at a loss...Could a worn torque arm bushing cause the engine and pulleys to vibrate? It does it usually when hard braking, or sometimes it vibrates lightly over a bump. Hardly ever does it in park.

I took a look at the torque arm and I can move in up and down a little bit in the transmission side of the bushing is that normal?

vwdave

Sorry, I misunderstood. I thought if you pressed on the brakes you might have been getting a vacuum leak, causing a misfire and "a vibration."

Its possibly for a TA bushing to cause it. I personally have never seen one, but I couldnt rule it out as a possibility. Might need to have someone put the car in drive and hold their foot on the brake while you look from behind the car and see if the torque arm is shaking.

XxXChrisGXxX

iTrader: (1)

It does mainly do it when hard braking and keeping pressure on the brake pedal even after a complete stop. I am getting a constant 16 Hg vacuum at idle in park.

XxXChrisGXxX

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I tried all 3 bolt spots on the torque converter it vibrated in all of them. I put it back to the original location I marked before taking the transmission out. I ordered a new torque arm bushing, and I am getting a replacement tensioner. Once I went back to the original transmission torque converter to flywheel location I heard a tapping noise sounded as if it was a valve went away after a minute or so...I dont know whats going on...I reseated the converter in the engine and it made the vibration better but it is still there when braking hard and sometimes turning over bumps.

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

It's doubtful it's the torque arm insulator... The trans mount will go WAY before that thing does.

Pull the bolts out of the rear driveshaft yoke and turn the driveshaft over so that what's on the bottom is now on top and vice-versa.

And check your brake rotors for rust spots... The rust spots will grab the stuff that's in the pads and make them grab harder in those spots as opposed to the bare metal on the rest of the rotor. If the car has sat for any amount of time, they probably rusted and should have been turned before the car was driven again (had this happen a couple of times).

XxXChrisGXxX

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No...brand new rotors...bearings...brake pads...

100% Transmission related. Has to happen to me man I'll tell ya...I dont know what is wrong with it. Has something to do with the torque converter or something along the lines of the tranny. Now that it is in its original spot I just stalled for the first time with this problem. I just checked my driveshaft it was good, and tight. Your right though it isn't the torque arm bushing.

God what could it be...I didnt even take the converter off! I did however tip the transmission two to three times trying to get it in with a jack.

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

Well, then, you're going to have to pull the transmission and make sure you have the flexplate aligned properly with the alignment pin. If the vibration is all the way through the engine and it's more pronounced at low speeds, you probably misaligned it. Like a modern front-loading washer, the slower it spins, the more it vibrates (ours walks around sometimes when badly loaded), and the vibrations dampen out when higher speeds are hit. Keep in mind an 87 is EXTERNALLY balanced on the flexplate/flywheel. Make sure the bolts are tight (I had mine actually come loose within a few weeks of putting the T5 in) and use BLUE locking compound on them (not the red or you'll NEVER get them out again) to keep them there.

XxXChrisGXxX

iTrader: (1)

UGHHH Alignment pin? my flex plate was just bolted on. The torque converter fits in the little hole. Guess so..huh I doubt it would be the new motor mounts or transmission mount. Guess ill go crack on then...maybe this time I dont need to move the whole tranny from under the car...after all I did fix my freakin oil leaks !

I might take some pics just so I can give you saviors a better idea.

XxXChrisGXxX

iTrader: (1)

I got everything off except the top two bolts this time around it is hard getting on them..anyway when I get it apart what should I look for and look to do first?

How can I possibly guarantee a correct installation?

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

There are 7 holes in the area that the flexplate bolts to on the crank (not including the one in the middle for the trans snout). One hole is between 2 of the flexplate/flywheel bolt holes. There is supposed to be an alignment pin in there, similar to the one on the camshaft (some have it, some don't... Don't know why, but the hole is there in the crank and on the flexplate). It doesn't matter if you don't have an alignment pin, but you need to make sure that the seventh hole on the flexplate lines up with this hole or your balance weight is going to be out of position and the vibration will be bad...

Top bell bolts are best reached with a super long extension and a u-joint... Don't forget to undo the tranny cooler lines.

GTA50

Unless I missed it (and appologies if I did), but I belive you neglected to mention how many miles.

In addition to the above, I would also suggest front struts, tie rod ends and rear shocks. How do I know? My wife's '94 Firebird had similar issues and when I corrected those, no problema.

XxXChrisGXxX

iTrader: (1)

No its ok I appreciate the help. 83,000 original miles, 165 - 170 PSI compression between cylinders, no vibration, stalling, or anything before I touched it (the tranny that is). I had to pull it apart though, my cam cover gasket was pouring my oil out.

I rebuilt most of the top end, top end gaskets, new valve seals, new dizzy, new EGR, new vacuum hoses all around, new MAF, new shocks, new rotors, new brakes, new bearings, new sway bar links and bushings, new motor mounts, new tranny mount (all rubber btw), added a tranny cooler, new tranny fluid, the list goes on and on... redid just about anything mechanically.

I had the flex plate aligned with that hole unless it somehow is off by a bit? I remember because there was some holes far apart and 3 holes close together and one hole did not have a bolt or pin. Yea I'll get it off I'm just exhausted from pulling this thing apart for the 5th or 6th time. I did the torque moving about 4 times, tranny once, and checked and rechecked driveshaft.

XxXChrisGXxX

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One more thing that was pissing me off was the location of the fuel lines holder. You know, the little clamp that holds the fuel lines in place. Where does this go behind the A/C? I cannot remember if im missing a bracket or which location it sits into..any thoughts?

Just something else that was bothering me.

zombienerd

Could the TCC not be unlocking? That would cause a pretty bad vibration, I'd imagine.. Could have knocked the wires loose or forgot to re-connect them.

XxXChrisGXxX

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As far as I know the only wires connected is the one 4 prong connector on the driver side of the tranny, it was connected.

XxXChrisGXxX

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OK it's raining outside and I work on dirt...lol I still went out and dropped the transmission...

Here are some pictures of it being out and of the flywheel. The tiny white mark on the flywheel is the original bolt hole for the torque converter. I mark the torque too. The big white check mark IDK what that is.
























Any picture request? I am waiting till tomm to place the transmission back in so my brother can stop by and give me a hand so we can ensure proper alignment.

XxXChrisGXxX

iTrader: (1)

Could a torque converter not be in all the way and yet install with the correct spacing between the flexplate and converter? Just to make sure I turned the converter and pushed inwards and I heard a noticeable click unless it was something else that moved as I put some force on it.

My converter end shaft that goes into the engine has a nick in it would that matter?
Here are some more pictures hope it isn't too much. I appreciate all the help and suggestions you guys have.

project89

iTrader: (1)

is that the original flexplate ??? that is way different then any other flexplate i have seen on a fuel injected 2.8/3.1

project89

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that apears to be an externally balanced flexplate what is the info on ur engine?

project89

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correct me if im wrong but shouldnt an 87 fi motor be neutrally balanced flexplate
well heres a pic of one of my broken neutrally balanced ones but u get the idea

XxXChrisGXxX

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I believe it is the original flexplate. The torque converter bolts had thread lock on them. I don't think the transmission has ever been out before I took it out.

I didn't have any problems except the huge oil leak before taking the transmission out.

Maybe it isn't the original flex plate? How could I tell?

If it is externally balanced does that mean I need the O.E.M style harmonic balancer on the front? Because I have had this one on for about 6 months.

I was reading an article that stated the 2 piece rear main sucked and they switched the design to a one piece changed flywheels and added weight to externally balance the crank but the front is internally balanced. Not sure if this is right on or not.



Info: 2.8L V6 87 Camaro
700R4 Tranny.

MFG Date: 04/87

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

The 2-piece RMS died in 85, for starters, when they upgraded to the crank with the bigger mains.

Only difference between the dampers in RWD vehicles is the 3.4 in the 4th gens, which had the 24x reluctor on the back for ignition timing. I had been running one off of an S10 (going back to the factory damper I had off of the 2.8 and pulley as the S10 damper is messed up). FWD dampers don't fit as they have the pulley on the outer ring instead of separate because they needed to be shorter due to less distance allowed between the front of the engine and the output of the transaxle in FWD cars. It's also not a balancer, it has NOTHING to do with the engine balance. It's there to absorb the harmonic vibrations caused by the firing of the cylinders (which is why it's called a harmonic damper).

If that flexplate in the pic is the one you took off, it's the right one. Make sure to index the odd hole with the unthreaded hole in the crank when you put it back. Again, the flexplate and flywheel lost the balance weight for the 88 model year when the 60* went to internal balance.

On GM cars, it doesn't matter where you align the torque converter to the flexplate, and the nick in the snout doesn't matter as the TC turns with the crankshaft (all of the time), unlike a manual trans, where the input shaft can be stopped while the engine is running or turning at a different rate depending on gear selection. On other cars (Chrysler I know for sure), you DO need to index the TC and flexplate, or you won't get but one bolt into each ( ).

XxXChrisGXxX

iTrader: (1)

Well then I am lost as too what is causing this, unless it is that click I heard when I pushed in the torque converter could it of not been in all the way but still went together with clearance between the flexplate and converter?

The only different things I will do this time are clean the torque converter outer shaft, and the inside of the crank. Then place a light coat of grease in the hole to prevent rust. I will also use a flexplate bolt in the unthreaded hole to align the flexplate and put every bolt in and use thread locker (blue). I will torque them again as always.

I did place the unthreaded hole in between the other 2 bolts that are closer together. I think it will only go on one way were it all fits together nicely.

Something changed but what is unknownnnn.

Found this on some site:

http://www.partshp.com/ConverterInstructions.htm

"The number 1 cause of vibration is failure to prepare the crankshaft for installation. Each time the converter is installed without sanding out the crankshaft rust, removing the paint from converter pilot and adding a little grease, the converter may be drawn up crooked with the first bolt. This may cause the converter to run-out and usually ruins the pump bushing. The 2nd most common complaint on converters is a whine after installation. This usually means there's too much clearance between converter pads and flex plate. This draws the converter hub too far out of the pump drive gear causing the gear to rock."

Maybe I should install some washers in between converter and flexplate? There is alot of clearance after all.

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

If there is any clearance between the converter and the flexplate when installed and the converter won't come towards the crank any more, you will need to grind down the mushroomed end of the converter snout until it will fully slide into the crankshaft and against the flexplate. Seems like mine was smooth between the tapered end and where it flares out to the rest of the TC housing... Shouldn't be any clearance there, period.

Also, when you get everything back together again, check the exhaust alignment before you drop the car. Just for kicks, as something may be hitting somewhere it shouldn't be. The exhaust does come misaligned with itself when the engine tilts due to the loss of the rear support of the trans.

And, if you get everything back together and it still happens, check to see if it's engine speed related by standing on the brakes and bringing the engine speed up (not so far you do a burnout, but about 2000 RPM or so).

XxXChrisGXxX

iTrader: (1)

No I meant before you install the bolts. There is alot of clearance and I thought there was suppose to be a certain amount of clearance because if there was too much clearance you will pull the torque converter off the shaft or something. When I installed it, the converter was flush. What is that red crude on the torque bolts? Did the use thread locker from factory on these bolts?

I will start putting it together once the rain stops tomm wish me luck...if it doesn't work I will try that. BTW, I put the car into neutral while hard braking and the engine noise did not happen. Tried it three times in drive and three times in neutral. When in drive it happens, when in neutral it doesn't.

I doubt it is the exhaust system I tightened up the flage bolts because I jacked the engine up...I checked for hitting and things the first time around.

Thanks for all the help and advice everyone and certainly you Mav.

I will post results soon...to be continued...

XxXChrisGXxX

iTrader: (1)

OH YEAH, before I post the results in a couple of days anyone know where that fuel line holder goes? the one that suppose to sit behind the A/C that holds the fuel lines? I cannot find the bolt hole...I completely forgot where I took it off from..lol

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

I think that there is a good amount of space where the converter rides before it will fall off of the pump splines in the trans. Seems to me it's around half an inch. Don't know if the factory used thread locker on the bolts... Mine were removed previously before I got the (dis)pleasure of taking them out the last time (and stripped 2 of them because someone DID use thread locker).

The fuel line bracket bolts to the engine lift eye and not to the A/C bracket as A/C delete cars also have the fuel line bracket (but obviously no A/C parts that it would bolt to). That's an IIRC, BTW.

Engine speed comes up when the manual valve (connected to the shifter in the transmission valve body) is shifted to a neutral position due to no clutches being engaged. Which could be a reason why the vibration goes away. Keep in mind that the engine vibrations are more noticeable at low engine speeds and are basically tuned out at higher speeds.

XxXChrisGXxX

iTrader: (1)

Guess I bought the wrong torque arm bushing? It wont fit in the bracket.

It says lip facing towards the driveshaft and I believe my lip is yet it wont fit...

Autozone and advance have the part numbers mixed up...according to Energy Suspension 3.111 is away from driveshaft (Advance & Autozone says it is towards) and 3.1112 is towards the driveshaft but both part stores says away...

SO DUMB... I ordered mine on Amazon. They will refund me when I ship the part back, gave me free two day, and $5 off...I guess I'm happy.

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

Check the bushing... You may need to do what I did and cut the rivets holding the bushing part (2 separate pieces, metal with rubber bonded to it and the actual bracket) to the bracket and turn them around.

XxXChrisGXxX

iTrader: (1)

Just got the wrong part...I went by what Advance and Autozone site said but didn't buy it from them because they did not have any on hand anywhere close...didn't think to look at energy suspensions site. So for anyone using the search function about the TORQUE ARM BUSHING...lol...100% goto energysuspensionparts.com to find out for sure!

http://www.energysuspensionparts.com...sp?prod=3.1112

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

You'll still need to cut the rivets to get the rubber off...

Only reason I know that is because I needed the whole bracket for my T5 (original somehow fell off within an hour of installing it?) and had to go to the dealer, who only had the V8 bracket, which has the torque arm lips facing outward from the driveshaft. Not going to worry about that anymore as I'll be putting the V8 torque arm on soon enough .

XxXChrisGXxX

iTrader: (1)

Your talking about removing the old rubber mounts? I drilled them rivets out like they weren't even there. No cutting involved.

My bushings have a huge gap...doubt it is causing my problems...transmission is in, thread locked flexplate, converter bolts, and removed rust and greased the shaft. I was hoping for a go tonight.

XxXChrisGXxX

iTrader: (1)

OK, new torque arm bushing in. I purchased another gauge cluster with gauges...my oil gauge flickers every now and then..and is at the white line above the red on the bottom. The temperature gauge is reading really high 240-260 is it the cluster or what could it be? The gas, volt, and tach, and speed seem about right. The trip is broken as well.

The car doesn't do it anymore...I don't know if it was the bushing..or the sanding rust, greasing torque converter, and using thread locker but it doesn't do it. It is running rough but I believe that could be because of disconnecting the battery so many times. Might need to be ran through the memory again.

So I need help on the cluster business and I'll see what else is wrong with it..