Help Diagnosing a Misfire
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Member
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 140
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From: Everett, WA
Car: 1985 Camaro
Engine: 2.8L v6
Help Diagnosing a Misfire
So here is the situation. I was driving at 85+ miles an hour not sure exactly since my speedometer only goes up to 85. But anyway by the time I got home and turned down my radio I noticed the car was misfiring. So I turned it off. And the next night I drove it to the store, a couple blocks, and the ignition coil stopped working so I replaced it. I then took out the spark plugs and plugs 1 and 3 needed replacing. Plug 1 had been destroyed. It was an e3 plug and the metal tip was gone and it look like it had been melted. The spark plug in cylinder 3 was deformed it like it had been exposed to high heat. It was not destroyed though it was still intact. So I replaced the two plugs and the rest are fine but I still have a misfire. There is not a check engine light on either so that is not any help. Anyone out there who has a lot more experience on this than me if you have any ideas let me know that would be great so I can narrow down the problem.
Last edited by K1ng0011; Apr 11, 2013 at 09:25 PM. Reason: Need to add more information
Member
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 214
Likes: 1
From: Central Falls, Ri
Car: 92 Camaro rs ( mostly stock for now
Engine: 3.1 v6
Transmission: 700r4 with a b&m megashifter.
Axle/Gears: whatever came stock. wanna posi tho
Re: Help Diagnosing a Misfire
Check the ignition control module. And for God's sake ditch those plugs stick with access rapid fires.
Aldo late at night in the dark. Pop the hood and start the car.
If the wires are leaking...you'll get a decent light show.
Aldo late at night in the dark. Pop the hood and start the car.
If the wires are leaking...you'll get a decent light show.
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 7,240
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From: LeRoy, NY
Car: 2003 Hyundai Tiburon GT
Engine: 2.7L V6
Transmission: 6-speed
Axle/Gears: 4.41
Re: Help Diagnosing a Misfire
Um, you need to check the fuel injectors PRONTO. Those plugs were damaged because you were running lean. And that could end up being the least of your worries (new engine).
And don't use RapidFires in your engine. They're a waste of money.
And don't use RapidFires in your engine. They're a waste of money.
Member
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 214
Likes: 1
From: Central Falls, Ri
Car: 92 Camaro rs ( mostly stock for now
Engine: 3.1 v6
Transmission: 700r4 with a b&m megashifter.
Axle/Gears: whatever came stock. wanna posi tho
Re: Help Diagnosing a Misfire
What are the best plugs? Rapid fires always worked for me. Is there better cheaper?
Supreme Member
iTrader: (8)
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 7,240
Likes: 6
From: LeRoy, NY
Car: 2003 Hyundai Tiburon GT
Engine: 2.7L V6
Transmission: 6-speed
Axle/Gears: 4.41
Re: Help Diagnosing a Misfire
Delco copper R43TSKs... Set of 6 is 1/3 of what you will pay for a set of RapidFires, E3s, Bosch Platinum/+2/+4 plugs.
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 140
Likes: 0
From: Everett, WA
Car: 1985 Camaro
Engine: 2.8L v6
Re: Help Diagnosing a Misfire
Sorry I forgot to mention that when I took it to the store, and I was trying to figure out why it would not start I pulled the spark plugs. This was before I had put a new ignition coil in. It just would not start and when I pulled the spark plugs they were all wet and covered in gasoline. So I dont think the fuel injectors are the problem. Anyhow that is how I figured out the ignition coil went out. I will check tonight to see if I see any sparks under the hood. And the E3 plugs have always worked for me so far and I have not had any issues with them. Thanks for your help so far.
Last edited by K1ng0011; Apr 21, 2013 at 09:06 PM. Reason: need to add more information.
Member
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 214
Likes: 1
From: Central Falls, Ri
Car: 92 Camaro rs ( mostly stock for now
Engine: 3.1 v6
Transmission: 700r4 with a b&m megashifter.
Axle/Gears: whatever came stock. wanna posi tho
Re: Help Diagnosing a Misfire
Thanks Mav. I'll get some on the first.
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Member
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 139
Likes: 0
From: Philadelphia,Pa
Car: 1991 Pontiac Trans Am
Engine: 305 TPI
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: 3:42
Re: Help Diagnosing a Misfire
Huh didn't know a 2.8 could do 85mph. You should do a compression check. I'd check the two cylinders with grenaded spark plugs first.
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 140
Likes: 0
From: Everett, WA
Car: 1985 Camaro
Engine: 2.8L v6
Re: Help Diagnosing a Misfire
So I went out and looked for any arching in the ignition system tonight and there is none. So that should not be an issue. The compression testing will have to wait a day or two until I get the money. But that is what I originally thought was the issue. I think that I am going to have to replace the head gasket and possibly get the head machined or replaced. It seems to be idling pretty fast also if that is any help.
Member
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 271
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From: colorado
Car: 1987 formula
Engine: 305 tpi
Transmission: t5
Axle/Gears: 3.45
Re: Help Diagnosing a Misfire
Ok to solve the spark plug thing, NGK all the way! And the plugs with more then one prong do nothing the spark only goes to the closest one so total waste! The e3's say the diamond shape helps but really do you even see them advertized anymore? They dont do anything. Really there isnt to much different from plug to plug other then the heat range and metals.
Now for what he is saying, Do you have any aftermarket ignition, msd? When was the last time you replaced the cap and rotor? Replaced wires lately? Wires all making good contact? Idk if there is a spacing on the plugs electrode but make sure they arent to spread for no spark.
Now for what he is saying, Do you have any aftermarket ignition, msd? When was the last time you replaced the cap and rotor? Replaced wires lately? Wires all making good contact? Idk if there is a spacing on the plugs electrode but make sure they arent to spread for no spark.
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 140
Likes: 0
From: Everett, WA
Car: 1985 Camaro
Engine: 2.8L v6
Re: Help Diagnosing a Misfire
As for the spark plug thing I have used e3 plugs in my nissan for over a year and they work great. And I also did a tune up on my ignition about 4 months ago. Distributor cap, rotor, wires, e3 plugs. So the e3 plugs worked for 4 months with no issues. And the e3 plugs do not need to be gaped they come working out of the box. And I have checked all the connections to make sure they were snug and they are. And the ignition coil was replaced about two weeks ago. So I am doubting it is the ignition. But that is not to say one of those parts could have failed. Maybe I should get a spark tester? The reason I think that it is a compression issue is because only two of the cylinders had issues with the spark plugs being damaged. So I am betting the head gasket went out on cylinders 1 and 3, and it caused them to over heat and melt the plugs. The car has 255XXX miles on it with mostly original parts on it. So I would not be surprised if the water pump is weak or something and that caused this issue. When I got it I did a tune up on it. Including ignition I switched the rear differential gear oil, changed the v-belts, cleaned the MAF, cleaned the throttle body, changed the oil, almost all new vacuum lines, ran fuel injector cleaner more than once, replaced the fuel filter, and some brake work. Hope this helps.
Last edited by K1ng0011; Apr 23, 2013 at 08:41 AM. Reason: Adding more information
Member
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 139
Likes: 0
From: Philadelphia,Pa
Car: 1991 Pontiac Trans Am
Engine: 305 TPI
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: 3:42
Re: Help Diagnosing a Misfire
I think the issue is when you were doing 85. I don't even do 85 in my 305 tpi. Get a straight edge to check the straigtness of your heads and block if the head gasket is damaged.
Member
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 271
Likes: 0
From: colorado
Car: 1987 formula
Engine: 305 tpi
Transmission: t5
Axle/Gears: 3.45
Re: Help Diagnosing a Misfire
The car blow up doing to fast of a speed. I have a huge straight away near my house that no cop is ever on and ill go have fun there getting my car to go 130+
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 140
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From: Everett, WA
Car: 1985 Camaro
Engine: 2.8L v6
Re: Help Diagnosing a Misfire
So I have started to disassemble the engine to replace the head gaskets. I have gotten the top part of the intake manifold off but I have a bolt that is stripped. I think it is the one that is holding what appears to be the fuel rail in. I have used PB Blaster on it and let it sit over night. I have used the biggest craftsmen wrench that I had and I still could not get it to budge. I got a set of these but they have just continued to strip it. http://www.harborfreight.com/9-piece...ets-67894.html And I cant use a torch of any kind since its the fuel rail and that would be a bad idea. Vice grips will not fit down there either. I am thinking a metal file or drilling it out are my only options. Any suggestions?
Last edited by K1ng0011; Apr 26, 2013 at 11:31 AM. Reason: adding more info.
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 4,461
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From: BFE, MD
Car: 13 Ram 1500/ 78 Formy
Engine: 5.7 / 7.4
Transmission: 6sp / TH350
Axle/Gears: 3.55 posi / 3.23
Re: Help Diagnosing a Misfire
dremel tool, grind off head head, remove part. Hope enough thread showing that vise grip can hold on to, otherwise grind flat & break out the...... easy-out.
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 140
Likes: 0
From: Everett, WA
Car: 1985 Camaro
Engine: 2.8L v6
Re: Help Diagnosing a Misfire
Ok so I have not managed to get a tool to remove that cursed bolt but in the mean time I put everything back together and got a compression tester and found that the cylinder compressions were:
Cylinder 1: 130
Cylinder 2: 150
Cylinder 3: 0
Cylinder 4: 135
Cylinder 5: 150
Cylinder 6: 155
So the cylinder 1 with the destroyed spark plug has low compression barley in the acceptable range. And cylinder 3 with the plug that was melted has 0 compression. Going to put some oil in the cylinder's tomorrow to find out if it is the valves or the piston rings. What do you guys think could have happened?
Cylinder 1: 130
Cylinder 2: 150
Cylinder 3: 0
Cylinder 4: 135
Cylinder 5: 150
Cylinder 6: 155
So the cylinder 1 with the destroyed spark plug has low compression barley in the acceptable range. And cylinder 3 with the plug that was melted has 0 compression. Going to put some oil in the cylinder's tomorrow to find out if it is the valves or the piston rings. What do you guys think could have happened?
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 140
Likes: 0
From: Everett, WA
Car: 1985 Camaro
Engine: 2.8L v6
Re: Help Diagnosing a Misfire
Ok so here is an update after not being on for a while. For the first time ever I have taken off the heads in a car. It was a long 3 1/2 days. But it was worth it. I found out that the cylinders in the car are just fine and so are the piston rings. What had happened is in cylinder 3 I apparently melted the exhaust valve. And now there is a huge hole in it and it had zero compression. So I took the heads to a machine shop in the area and, I am getting them done. So my misfire was caused by a zero compression in a cylinder. Thanks for all your guy's help.
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