3/8's check valves come standard on many 2000+ Nissan boosters, some being metal too...

 

yes bump up the values below the idle , also u only need to goto 250kpa if u plan on running 21 psi of boost

fast he is also speed density

u dont need a checkvalve in the pcv line either , ive never used one, i just changed my pcv valve to a different one , i ust cant rember which one right now

the passenger side vent line that goes to the valve cover u can run to the turbo inlet this will pull vacum on the crankcase when in boost , if it starts to pull oil into the turbo inlet u will need to install a catch can

 

So the 500rpm column starts at 30kpa and 16, but the 70kpa is at 13. But the next rpm column is opposite, lower kpa has a lower SA and higher kpa has a higher SA. Why is that and shouldnt the first column start low and go high on the SA? Let me know if that makes sense.

And true on the table only going up to 200kpa. If I was trying to go that high with this turbo something would blow, lol.

Im doing the check valve for insurance. Bugs keep popping up in the setup so im covering all the bases. Passenger side valve cover has a breather filter in place of the tube.

 

Bingo, cover all your bases, and stick with what works. The GN's that I run with and against all run Nissan check valves, as do I, we get the 3/8" metal ones from the junkyard and put them just before the PCV valve, and we too run a simple breather in the passenger side cover. Definitely don't waste your time with a catch can, the only time you would need to was if your valve cover(s) were not baffled. As for the SA, Megasquirt is a stripped down version of GM code, just about every firmware out there is, so start off with a stock LC2 SA main table and just work from there, and like I said a page ago, be sure to keep your SA main table idle cells essentially the same setting as in your idle SA, otherwise it may hunt a little...

 

ill have to download tunerstudio again on my new computer and take a look again for myself

 

actually u could just atke a screen shot of the ve and spark tables for me lol
btw i have a video going up on youtube should be up in about an hour
u get to see me almost get creamed by a truck while im out on the dirtbike, i broke 2 fingers when i crashed , buddy got most of it on the camera we mounted on his helmet

 

Yea ill have that up for you in a few.

 

Heres the spark table. 500rpm column was what I was talking about.



I would actually prefer to have the table go up to 7000rpm and 250kpa as a buffer. Id rather have that covered just in case.

 

that table has never been tuned there because it came form a stick car that never stalled


in the 500 rpm coloum put 17* in the 100 to 60 rows
and the rest set to 19*

the tables dont have to be expanded ms will automatically calculate the fuel and spark if u go over 200kpa or 6600 rpms

u also have a revlimiter u can set i advise setting to right around 7k or if u want to play it very safe set it to 6500

 

Yea I remember the rev limit settings, I think I set it to like 6700. I know I have had the car to 7000 in 3rd when it was NA with the stock ecm, though I dont wanna find out how itll handle 7000 under boost, lol. Ill probably set it down to 6500 cause there wont be any usable power around there.

 

the turbo will make alot more useable power up that high then it did n/a but yes after 5500-6k it will be falling off real fast with the stock cam

that tune i gave u is uber conservative , prolly more then 50hp's worth of power by bumping up that timing map

 

Yea ill play with it a bit more once I get my head around tuning SA. I understand the basics, but I wont move on until I get a pretty good understanding of it.

Id love to add a knock sensor, cause Im not sure Ill be able to tell if it knocks, ive never heard knock before, so ill have to learn how to hear/feel it when it happens. Though ideally Id like to never have knock, lol.

 

u can add one , look up megasquirt knock circut
here is on of a few different circuts this one is from one of the makers of ms ( it can have the sensitivity adjusted )


most of this information is now hidden since ms3x comes with it built in

if u do build one let me know how much to build a second one

 

Yea, ill let you know, I think the only thing I need to pick up would be the LM324 IC, well that and a knock sensor, but ill see If I can pull that from a 3.4 at the junk yard, if not ill just get a new GM sensor.

Holy crap, Looks like Ill be able to get a good chunk of change when I do upgrade turbos.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/123-126-300D-300CD-30SD-Turbo-Diesel-Turbocharger-Turbo-Assembly-Excellent-/121163191370?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item1c35e3944a&vxp=mtr

 

actually i just remberd i can use the tpi esc module i already have

u can also do the same thing but the sensor wont be tuned for the v6 but it will still work , i like the adjustable circut though as u can desensitize it for false knock


i doubt that turbo will see for that much, do a search for the same turbo and lookup ended auctions to see how much they actually sell for

 

How does this look for a starting point?



I was told its not a stock map, but one with safer WOT spark for todays gas.

Would it be safe running all those 40* cells though?

 

it would work but thats a huge jump to make , i run 22* under boost myself but thats after alot of careful tuning

ust start by bumping up those idle and under idle cells till it stops stalling , then get the afr dialed in then change sprak table 1* t a time while checking afr

u hve to take ur time and go back and forth or u will blow it up

 

Will at 159-189 kpa I run between 18-19.5 degrees of total timing without problems. 22 is on the high end but then again its all about the amount of boost and what your car set up tells you it wants....

Its always bet to start out low and build your timing up gradually till it is where you feel compfortable.

 

Sounds alright, lines up with alot that im reading on SA. The timing values low kpa/high rpm I can leave alone for the time being right? Cause I will wind up being under boost at those higher rpms.

Ill get the idle SA dialed in then work on the VE table. Im starting to get a better grasp on SA now so it should click for me soon.

Also is this correct? Lower timing is less efficient and higher timing is more efficient? I mean, up until a certain upper point on higher timing. Also what I gather is that the detonation occurs under too advanced of a timing value, causing the combustion to stress the cylinder, pushing down while the cylinder is coming up. Or would that be too low of a timing value? I would imagine that it would happen with too low of a value as well as too high of a value?

 

I just had a striking thought. My oil pressure gauge is run with the copper line instead of the nylon line that comes with it. Which means I can hear the engine through it and I have learned what it sounds like when its running well. When my PCV valve was rattling like crazy I could hear it through the oil gauge, which is why I initially thought it was a loose rocker.

Ok, now for the thought. Using the knock sensor circuit, adding a simple operational amplifier circuit with a microphone clamped to the copper line, and using that for the knock sensor input on the circuit, I could run the output to the MS, along with running it to a LED panel with green, yellow and red leds. The combination of an potentiometer on the "home made knock sensor" along with the pot on the sensing circuit, I should be able to have enough adjustment to not only cancel out the valvetrain noise but also false knock.

Im gonna look into it a little more because all I would have to pick up is the LM IC, everything else I should already have in my box hopefully.

 

u need to use a knock sensor off a 3.1 as its tuned to the 60* engine , most knock is not audible. if its audible its usually really bad


first time i took my car to the track after installing the ms i accidently hit the engine with 40* of ignition timing under boost , it sounded like somone dumped a coffe can full of marbles down the intake

 

as mark said it depends on what ur particular setup wants

my v6 runs 22* with room for a lil more
my v8 wants 25-27* and no more under boost, it stops making power at 27* even though it doesnt ping or knock at 30*

fast are u still running the same spark table as the iron headed 3.1?
those 3100/3400 heads will want some more spark advance

 

Thats why I was talking about putting an operational amplifier from the LM series of integrated circuits. With the op amp I can tune it for a certain frequency/range, then amplify the signal. The microphone would in essence be connected to a mechanics stethoscope directly connected to the engine. So in theory it would work, I would need to pinpoint the correct frequency of the knock to determine what is actual knock and what isnt, which is where the led array would come in handy. A few greens representing false knock, yellows representing definite knock and reds representing severe knock.

Using the op amp would amplify the sound to be audible for the knock circuit to pick up.

I have a pretty good feeling it would work, as I can hear the valvetrain through the gauge even without being right up on the gauge. Thats why I have been running around without the radio on.

Also I probably wont go any higher than about 18* advance under boost if the engine likes it. Ill be working on it monday when those check valves come in.

 

Actually im running less timing then with the iron heads(about 2- 2.5 degrees or so on the main part of my boosted table 159-189kpa). I figure I can add some more in there but wanted to be comfortable with the cars integrity before I started adding timing back in. I put too much money into the car to kill it..lol. so im still a little gun shy at this point. Never have I seen KR yet ever except false KR when I do burnouts in the box.

IIRC in my 12-13psi area last year I ran 21-22ish of timing and never had KR problems and the car seemed to like it and go faster so I just left it there instead of pushing my luck. But then again I had alky injection which really helped suppress detonation a ton. I still haven't tried the alky yet as I need to wire in and set up the hobbs switch.

 

thats just complicating things though , rember keep it simple , build the knock circut , screw the sensor intot he block , and setup knock retard in the ms , its built into the code u just have to enable it

 

im still sneaking up on the tune in the iroc ive purposely pulled a bunch of power out of it , for the street and it still has way to much lmao

i was going to do alky on the iroc but i put nitrous on it instead

not sure if u have seen this yet but she sounds badass , hoping to have some new videos tongiht

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/post...8-post234.html

 

Here's my timing table. Its got a few add ons here and there but in the boosted areas straight timing from this table.

BTW sounds bad a$$ dave!

 

For me its not really complicated. Its just building a knock sensor to me, lol. I have function generators and all those electronics goodies, and its something I enjoy doing.

Building the Megasquirt was something I truly enjoyed, along with all the add on circuits. Its something I can get lost in, much like the way I do when I work on the car. Its like a release. You know, I never did any testing whatsoever on the MS while or after I built it, along with not getting the Jimstim or anything. Aside from frying the first processor, the MS assembly went perfect and fired on the first shot.

I guess electronics is something that I have the "knack" for, cause I have been doing electronics since before I remember. And im only turning 30 this month, so there is still much to learn.

I guess for me, being able to say I designed and built my own knock sensor, takes the cake
I would do it, just to do it, and say I did it. But in the end id just get the GM sensor.

 

yeah but then u wont be able to use the knock retard in the ms

 

thanks im hoping to bring her home this weekend

 

I would have it wired into the MS, as well as having a display.

Id just be building the knock sensor myself, then it would be wired to the input of the knock sensor circuit, with dual outputs.

Besides, it would be a tuning aid. instead of relying on the knock retard in the MS, I would be tuning it so I wouldnt need the knock retard at all. Ideally I want no knock at all, so being able to see if its knocking in realtime, instead of leaning on the MS to retard the timing, I would know when to back off the timing to avoid knock in the first place.

EDIT- the knock retard in the MS would essentially be a failsafe just incase.

 

trying to read it threw the copper line isnt going to work , copper does not have the same mass or density as the cast iron block , the frequency/pitch of the noise will change as it travles down the tube .
u will never be able to dial it in
use a standard 3.1 knock sensor and make the tuneable circut and add the led display onto that , the ms will control the display based on kncok severity

trust me im the same way as u and love to build stuff but every now and then somone has to smack me upside the back of the head and say hey dont do that

edit

it doesnt just retard the timing it also logs the knock so u can tune it out

 

Yea but it woulda been one hell of a Capstone project for my degree, lol. Plus it would be something else to put in the portfolio with my resume.

 

As someone who also plays with electronics and is an engineering program currently, I agree with Dave, keep it simple. Use existing off the shelf items to get what you need done. Using the TBI knock filter is the best solution here.

Basically what you propose to make is basically an amplified "Det-Can".

 

Exactly what I was basing it off of. Im gonna build it anyway, however I am still going to wind up using the GM knock sensor for the car. Its more of an "I wanna build something" kick I guess you can say.

Six when you started with electronics, you remember how they would show you how to build the individual circuits that were contained in say, a nand logic chip? Thats pretty much the idea, though not how a knock sensor is built.

Im not gonna use it on the car, just feel the need to build something.

 

i forgot he is ms1 so he cant use the gm esc module , he has to build the circut i posted . ms2 + will accept the signal form the gm module

 

Really, people still use MS1?

What limits MS1 to not being able to use the GM ESC, if it can use the above circuit? Code revision?

 

adjustable circut is for logging only , no spark retard , as far as i can rember it puts out a different signal then the gm esc
ms2 and above has knock retard and they changed the code a bit for the gm esc
id have to dbl check but i use that adustable circut on my ms1 in the v6 car with the old ms extra code , maybe the newest ms1 extra code will work with the gm esc but i doubt it


unfortunatly the makers of the ms will not update older version of the ms once a new version comes out with that feature

u can however do it yourself


i still use ms1 on my tt iroc , but only cause i thought i had ms2 cpu problems so i downgraded it ms1 cpu was 18$ at the time , and ms2 was 118$, turns out my ms2 cpu was not the issu so ill be switching back to it int he near future , and then ethier upgrading to ms3x pro , or just getting the ms3 cpu and 3x board
now its like 25 and 130$ respectivley

 

Yea, im running ms1 on the extra code. Plenty of goodies on ms1 if you run extra. Once the car is tuned well and I find work out here in the middle of nowhere ill be upgrading to ms2 and restoring stock functionality. Like the IAC, and adding other things as well. Its not getting most of the goodies till its mostly squared away anyway. More or less Im doing it in stages. Learn the basics, then step up to ms2, learn some more, then add some more, etc...

Check valves will be here today with the mail, a pleasant suprise. Wasnt expecting them till tuesday. Currently digging ground for a 22ft pool though in 96° temps with a 110° heat index and a UV rating of 12. Yes in florida our UV rating goes over 10, lol. Sucks for me, lol.

 

Check valves came in and I got one on the pcv line. No oil leak at the flange as of yet, but I still have to drive it. The stalling issue is related to the power steering because the pressure sensor is no longer hooked up. Turn the wheel and the rpms drop off.

gonna let it cool for a bit from idling, then take it out for some gas and a log. Its freaking hot out.

Anyone have a workaround or should I just raise the idle? Its already around 1100 in park.

 

Well either my laptop sucks or its megatune. Got a log on the way to the gas station, megatune locked up for the ride back so no log on the way back.

seems a little sluggish up top but I havent even looked at the log yet.

Also either I have a leak somewhere or the spring is for 9.5 ish psi. other than that it doesnt look too bad. The oil return was leaking when I idled it in the driveway, but after I took it out, there is no oil on the outside of the return line. I need to let it cool before I even attempt to reach in and check the head of that bolt for oil.

Im assuming the turbo blanket smokes a little after the first run? It was smoking a little at the gas station, but wasnt smoking anymore once I got home.

EDIT-There was one little drop of oil on the one oil return bolt, so it seems to me that the 1/2 inch line was a major restriction. Im also betting that adding the check valve helped alot, cause before when I was in boost, the return line would have a bunch of oil on it, now just a drop, so thats more or less squared away, just gonna grab another gasket for it.

 

So looking at the log and seeing how rich it runs, I was thinking about doing a ve table transform scale by either .98 or .99 to see where it takes it. Using that number I can take the whole table down little by little, then once its close I can dial in the individual cells, adding or removing ve until I get it where I want it.

Doing it little by little I should be able to get the ve table close, then worry about the spark table once the ve is taken care of. Then once spark timing is tuned, i can go back into the ve and tweak it to bring it in.

EDIT-in boost is from 11-11.5 afr, cruising is 12.5-13 afr, so I think it should be alright scaling the table down little by little till I get it around 12-12.5 afr under boost, then dial in the rest of the table.

 

So I think it either has a misfire, or one of the valves isnt closing all the way. Need to pull the plugs and do a compression test. Also need to source a better gasket for the turbo to downpipe vband. Other than that still needs tuning, just waiting to see how that log I posted up looks like to everyone, and if everything looks good enough to move forward.

 

12.0 minimum under boost
15 afrs cruising

if u can get a video recording while driving the car and datalog to match u can use race render to put both together

 

It idles kinda like its missing, rough, motor rocks a little bit. more than before, but I know the turbo is a restriction at idle. I dont know, just doesnt seem like its running right for me to be comfortable enough with it to take it out tuning.

Most of the time, 1/8th on the throttle now drives like 3/4 on the throttle when it was NA, but it seems to fall off quick around 4500 or so rpms. But up there its also going to the high 10s on the AFR. I know too rich will be sluggish, plus the timing still needs tuning.

It feels like misfire but I really cant justify calling it that because it drives well, but I cant really read all that far into the datalogs yet. I know what im looking at, guess Im just having trouble linking everything together to read how its actually doing. I know TPS, MAP, RPM, AFR, etc... low MAP=high vacuum and vice versa, RPM is obvious as well as TPS and AFR. But the small spikes and other things in the MAP plot, what does it mean?

I know high duty cycle is running out of injector/possibly fuel pump, pulse width is the pulse of injector, like I said I understand that all but what am I actually looking at? Its kind of hard for me to put into words what Im trying to convey here, just hoping you get what Im trying to say.

I will get the hang of it, I mostly always do, just need some help along the way. Im also posting alot of this over on the MSforums as well.

 

In other news, Found another exhaust leak, luckily its only the turbo to DP gasket burnt out. Still have those Mr Gasket copper collector gaskets that Ill cut down and use there.

While looking around for gasket solutions on another forum, I came across the most awesome GIF I have ever seen, had me almost pissing myself, take a look. LOL.

Guess its too big to upload so ill link it.
http://www.gifcrap.com/g2data/albums...20Mechanic.gif

 

Hows those intake temps? I wasnt sure if you were running higher boost or if you got it tame so that you can tune lower boost then once thats dialed in go up from there. The temps will also affect what you want to run for AFRs but like dave said aim for 12 minimum. I aim at 11.5 on my set up with no alky. Id rather have rich and safe then lean and mean.....lol hence why I run less timing now then i did on my iron heads.. Im little scared still.

 

They arent too bad. When I had the boost spike from the crappy boost controller it only went up to 122 intake temp. Now without the controller its running right around 9psi and on short pulls im only seeing up to like 108 or so. 9 is as high as ill go on this turbo.

Once I get it dialed in a little more ill try a longer pull and see where it goes. For the time being, I ordered a new oil return flange and gasket with 1/2 NPT threads, cause I have a feeling the flange on the old one isnt quite right. Its not leaking real bad, just a drop on the head of the one bolt when its shut off and thats it.

 

On the 3rd Im renewing my license, it expired on the 28th. Thats why I havent really updated the thread, cause I can't drive the car, just idle it, and there is really no point in that.

Heres a pic of the vent in the hood as it is now. Kinda warped the hood a bit cause I didnt let it cool enough between tac welds. In actuality that was my first attempt welding anything other than exhaust, so live and learn.

 

Too much change at once or give it a shot?

Yay or nay?

Using Marks iron head table, but not just copying numbers over either. Still leaving timing on the table, just figured I would play around with the table on the laptop. I know everyone says change a little at a time but Im trying to give myself a better starting point.

Don't think it will, but will it blow? Lol.
Does It look like I'm getting the hang of it?

I mostly interpolated numbers off of his table, but kept the numbers much lower. Then if its good I'll load it and work on the Idle cells to smooth the idle down. I'll post up a rescaled VE table when Im done messing with that one.

Let me know what you think?