broke91firebird

Ok this will eventually be a thread for my build though since there will be more in a few months, I might have to revive it later. Right now, I am trying to get a list together of everything i need.
I am starting this build now because i got a great deal on a partial build from a guy near me. Currently I have:

3.4L block(95 firebird) bored .5 over with nice clean cross hatching and has had the external casting webs removed. Relatively new looking cam bearings

3.4L crank that has had some grinding done to it.
new Sealed Power .50 over dished pistons. Part # from summitracing.com= H847CP50MM(does anyone know anything about these pistons? the manufacturers site claims they're forged. summit says they're Hypereutectic aluminum

3100 intake(upper and lower) and heads off of a 2001 malibu. Will these heads work with a motor .5 over?

COMP Cams High Energy Camshafts 16-233-4 intake and exhaust duration at 050 lift:212 advertised duration(intake and exhaust):260 lobe separation 110 brand new in box.

I am planning on getting a set of yellow LS6 valve springs as well as the retainers and bases as well as a full ARP head and main bolt kit. And a set of MLS head gaskets at .60 over bore and .40 thickness from http://wot-tech.com/ as well as a set of 1.6 roller tip rockers from the same site and a set of fiero valve covers.

Is there anything else I should be looking for? Anything that needs to be changed?

I

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

You will need custom pushrods.

You are tuning this car yourself? Ecm wise?

Longer throttle cable, off the fwd 3100/3400 doner will work.

Also you need to get 3100/3400 valve covers not fiero covers. From what i remember the valve covers off that are the same bolt pattern as a gen 1 2.8/3.1l which is different from a 3100/3400.

You will need the fuel rail and you can splice in your injector harnesses if you want to retain what you have or just use the ones off the 3100/3400.

Im hoping that is a typo for a 3.4L being bored .50 over. Im sure you ment .050 over.

Im not sure about those pistons. I have sealed power also but there hyper pistons. And moly rings to match. I opened up my ring gap though more then what they gave me because its a boosted set up. I think forged are over rated in some set ups. But if you can afford them, get them.

Ive only delt with delta cams so im not familair with that cam. Be mindful of the lift, preload of the lifters, installed hight, and the bind of the valves so that you can get valve springs that will not bind since the rockers off the 3100 are 1.6:1

I had my 3.1L bored .030 over, new brearings all arround. Ported and polished the heads up nice and so on. Custom pushrods from WOT-tech.com. Actually I finally got it started up a few days ago. If you want you can scroll through the year in review thread, there's a few good things in there for my set up.

project89

iTrader: (1)

thos epistons are hypers
can u post a picture of the rods?
3100 and 3400 heads will work no issues

instead of the comp cams cam u should get the same cam from delta for 150 less

broke91firebird

Ya I'll get some pictures up in a little bit. I swear the pistons have .50 stamped in them. The can came as part of the deal. I hadn't realized the 3100 already had 1.6.1 rockers. That means the valve covers I have will work. Thank you for the puston info. I have the 3100 fuel rail also. Ya im going to try to tune it myself. That part won't come till fall/ winter though as I am currently driving my Firebird. The other things I will add to my list. Thank you

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

You better make sure the piston dish is right for the heads your going to run if your aiming at lower compression ratios. I almost forgot to mention that.

The piston compression distance should be 1.467" if you want lower compression ratios... 9.5:1 ish

broke91firebird

How would you find that out? Hopefully they are. They came with the deal too. Along with a new set of hydraulic lifters and a timing chain

camaroyoungster

I don't think Fiero Valve covers work with 3x00 heads, the valve covers on those are smaller and are positioned differently.

Fallen2603

It looks like you picked the right pistons. Those pistons are meant for a 3400 V6, which is what you want with the 3x00 cylinder-heads.

broke91firebird

Cool. The block, crank, can, lifters , timing chain, intake set up and heads I got as a package deal. Along with a couple of boxes of various other parts

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

The pistons could be marked as ".5 mm", which is approximately .020"

broke91firebird

They're stamped !.50 mm" on the top. I'm trying to post pictures

broke91firebird

".50 mm" or .015 over. What site do you guys usually post to to be able to post here?

broke91firebird

So here is a picture of the top of the pistons, a picture of the connecting rod for Project89 and a picture of the tab that has to be removed.

broke91firebird

Side note. Does anyone out there have ARP connecting rod cap studs? Do the heads look like this or are these stock studs?

project89

iTrader: (1)

thats a stock i-beam rod
looks like thats an arp rod bolt to me , just be aware once the rodbolts get changed the end of the rod has to be checked/resized , if its not done u could hurt the crank/spin the bearings

broke91firebird

Ok, thank you. I was hoping that would be the case, saves me some money, and I will make sure to check the clearances as I assemble.

broke91firebird

Anyone know off hand what size combustion chambers the 2001 3100 heads are.

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

2000+ 3100 and 3400 used the same heads, so you're okay. 28.6 cc chambers on 3x00 heads. Although I'm not sure about the 3900...

You can use the stock injector harness if you stick the injectors on the rail so that the electrical connections are pointed towards the center of the engine. There is just enough stretch in the harness to allow this, and just enough room between the bottom of the rail and the fuel injector connections. You will need bigger injectors. I currently run 22# on my 3.1/3100 small port hybrid, I'm guessing around 24#?

Not entirely sure if the CL-233 is the best cam. Most 60* cams I've seen seem to be pretty close when it comes to the output numbers in my dyno simulator. IIRC, the Crane cam that GM has a part number for, 12364059 (not sure the Crane P/N), would be the best, about 210/240. Without ported/polished heads. Not taking into account the overbore. If it hasn't been said before, if you want to replace the cam, get the specs and call Delta. They'll get you a cam kit for about half to 2/3 of what the big box places are asking.

broke91firebird

OK thank you. For the record to akl, I either was mistold or simply misremembered what the PO said. The box sticker says the ca is a 252 intake and exhaust cam with206 duration in. And ex. And 110 lobe. With .425 valve lift. Thoughts on that cam?

broke91firebird

Interesting. If I didn't screw anything up, the summit racing.com calculator says I should have around 8.26:1 compression.

oil pan 4

iTrader: (1)

I run an .018 to .020 top ring gap and .014 to .017 inch second ring gap.
Its a 4 inch bore, 22:1 compression that can run 5 to 8 psi of boost continously for hours and has seen up to 20 pounds of boost.
Those were the minimum gap recommendations.
I did run N/A for about a year or 8k to 10k miles after I built the engine before I put the turbochargers on.

Run the minimum ring gap, but give it some breakin before flogging.

project89

iTrader: (1)

thats the 252 grind cam , way to small for a hybrid

broke91firebird

OK thank you.What would you recommend?

project89

iTrader: (1)

auto or manual trans? street car only or drag race or auto cross etc

in

broke91firebird

Manual. Mostly aggressive autocross style street with a little drag racing. What would you recommend also for the turbo later on?

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

22:1 compreasion ratio????

oil pan 4

iTrader: (1)

Yeah 22:1.
Thats what you get when you put GM 6.2L diesel heads on the 6.5L diesel block. The slightly smaller combustion chamber upps the compression about 2 full numbers over the factory 20.5:1 compression.
Then run a ton of boost on top of that.
It only runs 20psi at sea level, here its about 16lbs, up at 9000ft its closer to 12psi. I'm only running a ball bearing t76 that feeds air into a holset he351ve.

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

I assumed a v6 gas engine not a diesel. . Thats why I asked

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

And this has to do with a 60 degree v6 build how exactly?

project89

iTrader: (1)

for something cheap put the delta 272 hyd flt tappet cam in it
when u order make sure u get the hyd version m that cam comes in 2 forms
hyd and solid/mechnical lifter
be aware with that cam that motor is going to want to rev

broke91firebird

OK. What do you mean" want to rev"? What is the optimum rpm for that cam?

project89

iTrader: (1)

3,000 to 7,000+

broke91firebird

Wow. That's OK though since I won't have a problem winding it up. Right now its not recommended sine the bone stock 3.1 has 300,xxx plus but it still sees 4000 from time to time. Thank you for the advice

oil pan 4

iTrader: (1)

They were talking about going wide on the ring gap on an engine with a turbo.
I was saying dont worry about it.

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

While I kinda agree with you, the ring gap you run on your 6.2L diesel would be very different than the ring gap on a 660, given the same application.

Ring gap is determined by type of use, type of induction and bore diameter, along with some engine builder "feel" (AKA experience).

So in reality posting the ring gap used on an engine that is so far different than than the engine in question will only confuse those that don't understand how ring gap is determined.

project89

iTrader: (1)

top ring
on forced induction i have found .007 per inch of bore to work well for most builds
but i also take into account so other things along with each build and adjust that figure depending on a few things

second ring
depending on the engine in question i go with a .003-.005 per inch of bore

ring type and distance to the top of the piston plays an important part in selecting ring gap

the best rule of thumb i can give u is run the ring gaps as tight as u can possibly get away with , the further u open the gaps the less likley u are to break a ring but u get more blowby and less cyl presure


an example is the 353 sbc i just built , knowing that it will see very high boost and nitrous i went a lil wide on the rings as it will see alot of cyl presure and heat
engine is a 4.020 bore and my rings are gapped at
.031 top .022 second with standard tension oil rings

broke91firebird

Where do you buy the delta cams? I tried a Google search but got nothing. And summit only sells comp in that size.

project89

iTrader: (1)

http://deltacam.com/

just give them a call great ppl to deal with

broke91firebird

OK. Thanks. I will do that.

broke91firebird

random side question not exactly about the engine build. I was reading up in the forum here about using the '97 Grand Prix fuel lever sender into the plastic 4th gen gas tank(mine is out of a 2001 Firebird 3.8) to make our gauges read right. Does anyone know if the whole '97 Grand Prix sending unit will work? Or the sending unit out of a metal tank of the same style? Finally does anyone know where the thread went where someone grafted the stock 3rd gen sending unit into a plastic 4th gen tank?
Thank you

broke91firebird

Hey guys, a couple of things ( the search isn't being friendly to me right now) since I'm sending the block out to get line honed and the rotating assembly balanced soon. Does anyone know where I could get 3 moly no. 2 piston rings? The previous owner bought a set of Sealed Power high performance rings but now 3 are missing. Also I'm trying to crunch some numbers here, the 3100 pistons come up .02 proud of the deck at TDC right? And ideally .06 quench on the head gasket? Finally the 3100 heads are roller rocker, will they work with a hydraulic flat tappet cam and hydraulic lifters?

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

Yes, the gen3 pistons come proud of the block, you could be correct on teh measurement, but I can't recall off hand.

The rockers don't care what type of lifter is at the other end of the pushrod.

Usually you need to buy a complete set of rings to get the few you need. It sucks, I know, but I have not found another way without breaking up a set.

Quench is not a property of the headgasket, so I'm not sure you are asking the question there. There is a compressed thickness of the headgasket, that I do believe it .060" for the gen3 engines.

broke91firebird

OK thank you. Ya the "quench" I was referring to is the compressed thickness. I have seen it revered to as quench on the forum here. Thats a bummer about the rings that's also as I expected. Thank you

project89

iTrader: (1)

u need the top or second rings?

if u look on ebay u might be able to buy a set of 6 top or second rings
if not u will u will have to buy a set of all the rings

broke91firebird

Second rings. I hadn't thought about eBay. Good call, thank you.

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

No you haven't, and if you have it was so very incorrect.

"Quench" is the distance between the piston top at the highest point and the combustion chamber lowest point, when the piston is at TDC.

Quench has ZERO to do with the head gasket compressed thickness measurement.

For those being ultra technical and want to rip apart my last sentence, yes the actual compressed thickness of the head gasket will effect the quench distance, but is not a property of the head gasket compressed thickness itself.

broke91firebird

OOOH. OK. Thank you. I might have misread it on the other post.

broke91firebird

OK, so I'm going to necropost myself here and kind of change the post for a bit into a "poor Firebird rebuild" thread. Pictured is the result of trying to avoid deer on a narrow country road with guard rails while having the lca's in the lowest bolt hole in the relocating bracket and a set of koni's yellows set to maximum stiffness.

A question for the body gurus here, how can I check frame straightness at home? The drives front control arm is nearly torn off the car so I can't take it to town.

broke91firebird

Here are some pictures of the car from my phone

broke91firebird

Here's a few more.