tylercamaro

iTrader: (1)

Anyone familiar with 3.1s that can diagnose my car? ive stumped many people dont have any money to waste on the v6 itself any longer and would just like to drive my car. base time needs to be reset for starts. heres what i know. fuel pressure is good, was tested with a known to be good gauge, no bent pushrods, all valves opening no broken springs etc. we have compression. The snap on brick concluded that all sensors and computer are reading properly, injectors appear to be ohming correctly according to an outside source. it really has me stumped and i could really use a hand. location Michigan 48036 PM me if you can help please. this is beyond my level of knowledge so advice probably wont help as i already had another thread that died shortly after everyone best advice was given.

drdave88

iTrader: (3)

You didn't state what the actual problem you are having is. Will the engine not start? Does it run like crap?

tylercamaro

iTrader: (1)

This is true i didnt.

i bought the car running a few months back off one of the facebook groups. it ran terribly but it drove to my house. my first seps since it sat were check fuel pressure change plugs wires air and fuel filters.

fuel pressure checked fine initially, so i changed the filter. changed the plugs and it ran better but the miss or two(im unsure) was much more prominant. i then proceeded to swap wires one by one and it never ran again. swapped out a few different sets and it never ran. timing when it did run was waaaaay retarded almost two teeth off or so. coil voltages checked fine, swapped coils and nothing still, original is back on. swapped distributors and that didnt help either. i can no longer find base timing primarily to even continue with diagnoses. at times, while trying to get it to start you can run the distributor around and itll give you 5 seconds of running poorly, then die, and not restart at the same positon. i havent touched it in about a month.

drdave88

iTrader: (3)

I'd say pull the front cover and see if the timing chain is just toast or if something broke under the cover at this point.

tylercamaro

iTrader: (1)

everything manual moves fine. checked under valve covers all 12 rockers move, no slop etc. snap on scanner said everything was grounded proper FP good all sensor data coming back normal. part of my issue i know is i have no clue how to time this thing with all the bad info ive gotten im just lost and physically cannot do it myself.

drdave88

iTrader: (3)

You need to make sure you are starting with good timing at your cam/crank. That's why I said you have to pull the front cover off and make sure the marks line up on the gears for the timing chain. If those are off, you will never be able to get the distributor timed right.
Once you are sure that is good, then we can help you get the distributor dropped in right and get timing set.
Pull the front cover, check your gear marks and lets see where we stand with that to start.

tylercamaro

iTrader: (1)

yea ill have to just means i have to pull the pan and i wasnt trying to get that involved with the car.

drdave88

iTrader: (3)

You don't have to pull the pan to get the front cover off. It's only the first 2 bolts from the pan that go into the cover. You will want to get new sealant, but I've done it before without dropping the pan when I did a cam swap.

tylercamaro

iTrader: (1)

every 350 ive done a cam swap in ive never had that sort of luck. unless a 3.1 is entirely different. i typically just pull the motor if im dropping the pan on a sbc but if this 3.1 comes even slightly out its not going back in.

C2YT

Have you tried to time it at all? I know they are pretty picky, especially if it is off.

Here is what I did,

- Disconnect the est wire
- Hook up timing light
- Twist distributor enough to get it to run (if it wont start, it might even be 180 deg off)
- set timing to 10 degrees btdc
- Reconnect est wire

brettr81

Distributor might be 180 degrees off. Pull it out, spin the gear half way around, put it back in and try to time it again. Usually timing is pretty easy and only takes a few seconds, but when you're 180 degrees off, it can **** you off and leave you frustrated for a bit until you figure it out.

tylercamaro

iTrader: (1)

ive done all that before, it just must have a sweet spot i cant find no matter what i do. ill rip the front cover off

brettr81

What is the gas like? These modern ethanol blends start to separate after 90 days. If it's older than that it can make it a PITA to start and to time. I'd try to get the timing as close as possible by cranking it and using a light, and then try to start it with a squirt of starting fluid.

tylercamaro

iTrader: (1)

i put fresh in a month ago or so. when i bought it i drained some and not much came out, you sycle the pump and it didnt catch anything. idk maybe it is partly the pump and some timing. i dont know how to tell anymore.

tylercamaro

iTrader: (1)

timing marks are still fine, fuel pressure still fine, tried redoing timing didnt fire, checked it 15 more time and messed with it around and around and now its probably ****ed again but still doesnt run. for christs sake why is every damn thirdgen since my 85 a pile of havoc filled ****.

drdave88

iTrader: (3)

Are you sure you still have spark at the plugs? Have you checked it w/ a spark tester to visually see it?
When you crank it do you get any sort of indication any of the cylinders are firing (sputter, pop, backfire, etc)? If your timing is even in the ball park you should be getting some sort of firing.

tylercamaro

iTrader: (1)

I shot a fire ball through my garage door last time I majorly messed with it. Definitely fuel and spark visually

drdave88

iTrader: (3)

Lol I'd say there's a good chance you have spark and fuel then. OK, so let's get into details.
- How EXACTLY are you dropping this distributor in?
- Where does the rotor point at when you drop it in?
- How are you validating you are on TDC Compression of #1 Cylinder?

tylercamaro

iTrader: (1)

I accidentally replied to the wrong thread. I find tdc on 1 with a score driver back it off 12 degrees usually because I'm told that's what it calls for. Even at 0* it doesn't change can't remember if pass or driver side front is cyl 1 atm. Rotor facing cylinder 1 or a bit before since its before top. And run the wires around 123456

drdave88

iTrader: (3)

Even though you are at TDC, you need to make sure you are up on compression stroke, not exhaust stroke. This can be done by either pulling the valve cover and watching the rockers both close as you come up to TDC, or put your thumb over the spark plug hole and feel the pressure push your thumb off.
You have to check this on the driver side front cylinder, that is #1. Pass side front is #2.
Look at post 7 in this thread to make sure your wires are correct.
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tech...ire-order.html

tylercamaro

iTrader: (1)

That's likely my issue. The book states pass side is cylinder 1. Edit.... The link you posted is confusing as well. You said drivers side is 1 it states that is incorrect. And is it click wise or counterclockwise. This is why I'm having trouble no one seems to have the same answers and everything is different. I need a picture please

brettr81

Is the fuel pump priming? If the fuel pump isn't priming and waiting for the oil pressure switch to send the signal to turn on, it may take a while for the oil pressure to build up and send the signal (Just taking a guess, common issue with Fiero's where the circuit that controls the fuel pump is in the ECM and commonly gets burnt out, especially if key is left in the run position without car running). I'm not too familiar with the 60* V6 in F-bodies, I'm sure if I had the car in front of me I'd figure it out. Wish I could be of more help. Do you have fuel and do you have spark?

tylercamaro

iTrader: (1)

if your in michigan stop by because this is baffling me. i cant hear it come on but fuel sprays out of the schrader valve continuously.

drdave88

iTrader: (3)

Sorry, didn't catch that part of the pic. Regardless, just look at the engine, whichever cylinder sticks out the furthest, that is #1. Since they are slightly staggered, if you look at your engine, one cylinder head will be seated a bit further forward than the other, that is where cylinder 1 is. In the 2.8's case, it is on the driver side.
Setting timing is essentially the same on any car with an adjustable distributor. Jump on youtube and start watching videos. Doesn't matter if it's a Ford 302, Chevy SBC or your 2.8, the basics of setting timing are the same.


As far as fuel, he said he has gotten it to pop/backfire, so he is getting fuel and spark.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

That is correct, the 60* engines have #1 on the passenger side. The passenger side head is shifted forward with the drivers side head shifted rearward. This makes the passenger side #1.

Other then that, if the injectors are the originals, replace them, they are bad.

RBob.

P.S. you can use the #4 cylinder (center drivers side) on the exhaust stroke for TDC of #1. That is, when #4 is at the top of the exhaust strike, #1 is on the top of the compression stroke (TDC #1).

This also means you can connect the timing light to #4 to set the distributor base timing. Sure beats trying to drape the pickup wire over the engine and keeping it out of moving parts.

91rs1022

iTrader: (3)

Is the ECM seeing the vats? Are the spark plugs wet when you pull one out after you try starting it?

tylercamaro

iTrader: (1)

plugs wet. not sure if it sees vats