1987 2.8 Camaro not starting when cold outside?
12-01-2017, 07:57 PM
#1
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1987 2.8 Camaro not starting when cold outside?
I suspect it might be the cold start valve, since everything else works perfectly when the car is running. It starts perfectly if it's warm out and runs well, but if it's cold it will struggle to start or not start at all. It recently got cold enough out that I can basically never get it started, but I need to get it to a mechanic in order to work on it since I live in an apartment complex and am not allowed to work on my car myself. Does anyone have clues as to how to get it started?
12-01-2017, 09:03 PM
#2
Supreme Member
Re: 1987 2.8 Camaro not starting when cold outside?
The essentials of combustion:
Fuel
Air
Spark
The essentials of functional combustion:
Fuel - delivered on time, and in correct quantity
Air - delivered only from the designated source (and not from 87 different vacuum leaks)
Spark - delivered on time and with sufficient magnitude
Compression - if you aint go it, she aint gonna fire
Do you have fuel pressure during start up?
There is a Schrader valve to attach a gauge on the fuel rail nearest the firewall.
Have you tested for vacuum leaks?
What is the condition of your distributor, coil, plug wires and plugs?
Compression test - do it.
That should keep you busy for a spell.
Its costly to pay a shop to do all that for you.
The techs at the competent shops mostly run away with their hair on fire at the sight of a third gen Camaro or Firebird because they know from experience that most owners of thousand-dollar cars aren't going to pay a thousand dollars for somebody to "do a little work" on driveability issues.
The shops who will "gladly" take the job aren't competent to do it. They won't fix the problem, and they will probably break something else on the car, and won't tell you. Kiss your pinch-welds goodbye.
Fuel
Air
Spark
The essentials of functional combustion:
Fuel - delivered on time, and in correct quantity
Air - delivered only from the designated source (and not from 87 different vacuum leaks)
Spark - delivered on time and with sufficient magnitude
Compression - if you aint go it, she aint gonna fire
Do you have fuel pressure during start up?
There is a Schrader valve to attach a gauge on the fuel rail nearest the firewall.
Have you tested for vacuum leaks?
What is the condition of your distributor, coil, plug wires and plugs?
Compression test - do it.
That should keep you busy for a spell.
Its costly to pay a shop to do all that for you.
The techs at the competent shops mostly run away with their hair on fire at the sight of a third gen Camaro or Firebird because they know from experience that most owners of thousand-dollar cars aren't going to pay a thousand dollars for somebody to "do a little work" on driveability issues.
The shops who will "gladly" take the job aren't competent to do it. They won't fix the problem, and they will probably break something else on the car, and won't tell you. Kiss your pinch-welds goodbye.
12-02-2017, 07:10 AM
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Re: 1987 2.8 Camaro not starting when cold outside?
That's a lot of great information, but I can't really afford to do that much work on it. My neighbors will report me so I'm really only able to work at night, and only small things. Can't do a compression test, can't check for vacuum leaks. If it's only affected by the cold, would it be worth it to just replace the cold start valve? That's the most likely culprit, right? Given that it runs perfectly once started, and that it starts perfectly when it's warm out?
The distributor is brand new, as are the plugs and wires and ignition coil.
The distributor is brand new, as are the plugs and wires and ignition coil.
12-02-2017, 12:33 PM
#5
Re: 1987 2.8 Camaro not starting when cold outside?
There are 4 parts to this system , #1 the ignition switch , #2 the 3 amp "crank" fuse , #3 the thermal switch that "tells" the CSI whether the engine is hot or cold when you crank it , and lastly #4 the cold start injector itself . (well I guess if you want to consider the wire that connects all of these devices that would be 5 , but let's first lets look at the actual components)
So , have you checked the 3 amp "crank" fuse ?
And if yes , and it's not blown , have you checked for power on both sides of the fuse while the engine is cranking ?
And if power is good on both sides of the fuse have you checked the purple wire to the injector for + 12 V while cranking ?
And if that's all good have you verified that the thermal switch does in fact have the tan wire grounded ?
When ALL of the above conditions have been met , in other words your 100% positive that the CSI has both a good +12V and a good ground while cranking (remember the thermal switch opens up the ground side of the circuit when the engine is warm enough to not need the CSI for a "warm start") , then and only then can you say "I think it needs a new CSI" . Otherwise , you'll be replacing parts "shotgun" style , changing part after part till by luck the right part gets changed . BTW you'd better hope it ISN'T the CSI since I think at least the upper manifold needs to be removed to gain access to it (and you say no car work in the parking lot allowed) .
So I will leave you with this wiring diagram of your CSI circuit , the detail you seek is right under the drawing of the sparkplugs , and good luck with your neighbors who sound like a bunch of real A holes if they'd report you for simply lifting your hood ! (If you were spilling oil on the parking lot I could understand the frustration but with a voltmeter in your hand your not likely to do a whole lotta damage to anyone's pavement)
So , have you checked the 3 amp "crank" fuse ?
And if yes , and it's not blown , have you checked for power on both sides of the fuse while the engine is cranking ?
And if power is good on both sides of the fuse have you checked the purple wire to the injector for + 12 V while cranking ?
And if that's all good have you verified that the thermal switch does in fact have the tan wire grounded ?
When ALL of the above conditions have been met , in other words your 100% positive that the CSI has both a good +12V and a good ground while cranking (remember the thermal switch opens up the ground side of the circuit when the engine is warm enough to not need the CSI for a "warm start") , then and only then can you say "I think it needs a new CSI" . Otherwise , you'll be replacing parts "shotgun" style , changing part after part till by luck the right part gets changed . BTW you'd better hope it ISN'T the CSI since I think at least the upper manifold needs to be removed to gain access to it (and you say no car work in the parking lot allowed) .
So I will leave you with this wiring diagram of your CSI circuit , the detail you seek is right under the drawing of the sparkplugs , and good luck with your neighbors who sound like a bunch of real A holes if they'd report you for simply lifting your hood ! (If you were spilling oil on the parking lot I could understand the frustration but with a voltmeter in your hand your not likely to do a whole lotta damage to anyone's pavement)
07-16-2018, 11:04 PM
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Re: 1987 2.8 Camaro not starting when cold outside?
There are 4 parts to this system , #1 the ignition switch , #2 the 3 amp "crank" fuse , #3 the thermal switch that "tells" the CSI whether the engine is hot or cold when you crank it , and lastly #4 the cold start injector itself . (well I guess if you want to consider the wire that connects all of these devices that would be 5 , but let's first lets look at the actual components)
So , have you checked the 3 amp "crank" fuse ?
And if yes , and it's not blown , have you checked for power on both sides of the fuse while the engine is cranking ?
And if power is good on both sides of the fuse have you checked the purple wire to the injector for + 12 V while cranking ?
And if that's all good have you verified that the thermal switch does in fact have the tan wire grounded ?
When ALL of the above conditions have been met , in other words your 100% positive that the CSI has both a good +12V and a good ground while cranking (remember the thermal switch opens up the ground side of the circuit when the engine is warm enough to not need the CSI for a "warm start") , then and only then can you say "I think it needs a new CSI" . Otherwise , you'll be replacing parts "shotgun" style , changing part after part till by luck the right part gets changed . BTW you'd better hope it ISN'T the CSI since I think at least the upper manifold needs to be removed to gain access to it (and you say no car work in the parking lot allowed) .
So I will leave you with this wiring diagram of your CSI circuit , the detail you seek is right under the drawing of the sparkplugs , and good luck with your neighbors who sound like a bunch of real A holes if they'd report you for simply lifting your hood ! (If you were spilling oil on the parking lot I could understand the frustration but with a voltmeter in your hand your not likely to do a whole lotta damage to anyone's pavement)
So , have you checked the 3 amp "crank" fuse ?
And if yes , and it's not blown , have you checked for power on both sides of the fuse while the engine is cranking ?
And if power is good on both sides of the fuse have you checked the purple wire to the injector for + 12 V while cranking ?
And if that's all good have you verified that the thermal switch does in fact have the tan wire grounded ?
When ALL of the above conditions have been met , in other words your 100% positive that the CSI has both a good +12V and a good ground while cranking (remember the thermal switch opens up the ground side of the circuit when the engine is warm enough to not need the CSI for a "warm start") , then and only then can you say "I think it needs a new CSI" . Otherwise , you'll be replacing parts "shotgun" style , changing part after part till by luck the right part gets changed . BTW you'd better hope it ISN'T the CSI since I think at least the upper manifold needs to be removed to gain access to it (and you say no car work in the parking lot allowed) .
So I will leave you with this wiring diagram of your CSI circuit , the detail you seek is right under the drawing of the sparkplugs , and good luck with your neighbors who sound like a bunch of real A holes if they'd report you for simply lifting your hood ! (If you were spilling oil on the parking lot I could understand the frustration but with a voltmeter in your hand your not likely to do a whole lotta damage to anyone's pavement)
Yo Orangebird by thermal switch you mean the switch located at the back of the passenger side head ???
07-17-2018, 07:35 AM
#7
Supreme Member
Re: 1987 2.8 Camaro not starting when cold outside?
I’m pretty sure the SWITCH for the cold start injector is toward the front of the motor.
From:
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/v6/7...-injector.html
Hi W.E.G. , Yes indeed , that unit you see in the back of the lower manifold is the cold start injector . In the first picture I posted , if you zoom in , it's the item directly to the left of the radiator fan laying on the floor . In my second shot you will see where it is screwed into the fuel rail that supplies it and the other 6 injectors with fuel . Now the CSI switch (seen in picture #2) will be the larger of the two sending unit looking devices screwed into the lower manifold at the front of the engine towards the driver's side (the other smaller sensor being the one that tells the ECM the coolant temp so it can mix the fuel properly depending on engine temp) . The CSI switch measures the coolant temperature and only allows the CSI to function on cold starts only , acting very much like a choke on a carb equipped car (cold engine = choke closed , warm engine = choke open)
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07-17-2018, 03:23 PM
#8
Re: 1987 2.8 Camaro not starting when cold outside?
Hi maroe624 , Yes indeed W.E.G. has it right , the cold start injector switch is the larger of the two "sending unit" looking devices on the front of the manifold on the driver's side , as seen in the second picture he posted (the one to the left , the one to the right is the one that tells the ECM the coolant temperature) . The switch at the back side of the passenger's side head is the switch for the electric radiator fan .
07-17-2018, 05:31 PM
#9
Supreme Member
Re: 1987 2.8 Camaro not starting when cold outside?
Hi maroe624 , Yes indeed W.E.G. has it right , the cold start injector switch is the larger of the two "sending unit" looking devices on the front of the manifold on the driver's side , as seen in the second picture he posted (the one to the left , the one to the right is the one that tells the ECM the coolant temperature) . The switch at the back side of the passenger's side head is the switch for the electric radiator fan .
I've got a feeling I've still got it not quite right, and I really want to get it right when I try to answer or comment on the V6 sensors.
I think I still need to list the cold-start injector switch as a yet FIFTH temperature sensor.
Does not report to ECU... location somewhere on intake manifold... Only talks to cold-start injector?
Last edited by W.E.G.; 07-17-2018 at 05:37 PM.