My front tires are 245/45/17 on a wheel that is: 17x8 with 4.5" of backspacing. That said, the wheels rub pretty good when I am turning, I will say around 3/4-full lock the rubbing gets progressively worse, the left tire rubs on left turns, and the right tire rubs on right turns. They are rubbing on the inner-fender closest to the interior.

Here are some pics:

You can see that the plastic got melted and bunched up at that point where it rubs.





It is starting to do a little damage to my new ($600 worth) tires, you can't really see it in this pic but it is tearing little pieces off around the edge:



Is there anything I can do to make this problem go away?

 

gonna have to git u sum of those wheel spacers from auto zone

 

See, thats not the thing that I wanted to do. I wonder if I was to remove the inner-fender, would there be some space behind there that wouldn't rub?

 

is it only rubbing the plastic? if it is, just trim it. there is a lot of room on the front side of the wheel well, some on the rear. it almost looks like the plastic line is not put in right. the bottom few holes on the rear of the wheel well should be behind the fender lip, not in front of it, at least thats how it is on both my cars. Aside from wheel diameter, the width and height of the tires are the same as the stock 16x8, no rubbing like that is not normal. A little maybe, but you are melting the liners. See if you can just reposition the liners to gain some extra room.

i wouldn't take the lines out, since the fenders are open a bit in to the door jambs and you will get all kinda of crud stuck up in there.

 

Yeah I think I am going to try and adjust the liners. Maybe I can cut part of tem out and put it further back or something.

 

Adjust the liners

Ive got the same size wheel/tires up front and dont rub at all. 2" spacers, 17" Y2K's up front. With 1.5" spacers I had a slight rub on the sway bar but no chassis/liner parts

 

Let us know what you find, because tires this size should not be rubbing whatsoever, from everything I've read.

 

I pulled mine out and they're sitting in the garage, or trim them.

 

I trimmed mine, I had the same problem as you in the same area.

 

I finally got around to trying to fix this problem today, I ended up trimming the liners on the backs and I had to hammer down some metal that was also touching the tires. You would think that would solve it, but the tires still hit the lower parts of the fenders. I would have to cut out part of the fender for them to totally not rub, but I really don't want to do that....

 

i still dont understand why this is happening, thats a stock height/width tire, same as my 245/50/16 and 245/40/18 in height and width, just a different diameter rim. I have no rubbing like this at all, with stock brakes, or 1le's or c5's for that matter. this shouldn't be happening.

is the wheel centered in the wheel well? maybe the k-member shifter back or something is bent?

hows the alignment and the condition of the strut mounts?

 

Strut mounts have been replaced and look brand new still. The wheels look pretty centered as far as I can tell, but its having the same problem on both sides. I looked under there pretty good and I didnt see anything bent, broken, or out of place..

 

Just an update on this...

I ended up trimming part of the plastic fender liner, and hammering down some metal that was sticking out. That still wasn't enough, as the tire was rubbing the lower fender everytime I turned which eventually lead to it bending the fender and curling the bottom of it slightly which threw the fenders out of proper alignment. Today I got fed up and spent $100 on a nice Reciprocating saw and trimmed the lower corners off of the fenders. Then I took it for a test drive and now no more rubbing at all, I can finally drive the car without the fear of turning!

The missing metal at the bottom of the fenders isn't noticeable unless your looking for it, which is okay because my tires are saved.

 

*shakes head*

 

I had to do what I had to do. I researched before buying wheels and tires and even made a thread and was told that these would work fine with no rubbing. Turns out that was wrong. Like I said, it isn't noticeable and you'd never know if I didn't tall ya. One of the fenders has a bondo-crack in it anyway so it seems justify-able..

 

I disagree. Those tires/wheels should and do work, there is something else wrong.

Did you try taking it to a shop to figure out what was wrong?

Something in your suspension/k-member is out of alignment.

Cutting the fenders with a saw, instead of finding the original cause of the problem, is a hackjob.

If you couldn't find it or weren't willing to spend the money to let a shop/dealer do it, the best course of action would've been to put the stock wheels and tires back on.

Now the next guy that buys your car down the road will come here and go, "Geez, look what this guy did to my car, he just hacked the fenders etc. etc."

The inhumanities these cars suffer are just depressing.

You have an issue with the suspension. Fix it. It's really that simple. Cutting fenders with a power saw is a hack job. There's no shame in letting a shop do something once in a while, spare me the budget excuse.

 

I have the same problem.. or, had the same problem, not anymore i dont think.. Or atleast a hell of a lot less. I got a really different alignment for the car and it doesn't do it anymore.. i went for a radical change from +1 camber and 2.8 caster to -1 camber and +4.6 caster with a decent amount of toe in. Don't know if it was this that fixed it but it's all good now it seems!

 

First of all, I never perform any "hackjobs" on a car, especially a thirdgen. This is the one and only time I have every had to cut something like that so something else could work. I looked into every pheasable fix and could not find any. All of the K-member bolts were tight and in place, A-arm bushings are in excellent condition, tierods and all other steering components are new and in excellent shape as well. Strut mounts are brand new and in proper alignment, as are the struts.

Secondly I am not the typical ******* who will sell someone a car with a botched repair and not let it be known, I am above that, and what I did is not dangerous and causes no structural harm to the car or its components.

And yes, I got a couple "second" opinions, and all pointed to either the tires being too wide (which we KNOW isn't the case) or the wheels being of improper backspacing. Either way, I do not have the original wheels and tires, and the wheels the car came with were dangerous to drive on AT BEST.

Also, as I stated above the passenger fender has been bondo'd and is cracking, and the tires curled up the fenders making them junk for when I get it re-painted anyway. I did not ruin a set of good fenders, and planned on replacing them anyway because they wouldn't have made the cut when it came to paint/body.

No reason to come off as rude as you did, making so many assumptions which were totally incorrect to begin with, I am not the typical "backyard mechanic" who will allways take the easiest route no matter how scummy the outcome.

 

You took a power saw to your fenders. You couldn't find the problem, so you cut up the car.

Pretty cut and dry.

 

Apparently your too simple-minded and thick-skulled to understand my response so there is no point arguing with you. I understand that cutting a fender to fit wheels is certainly not the correct way to do things, but the problem lies within the backspacing of the wheel, which I can't fix. The fenders got messed up as a result of the tires pulling them up so hard they got bent out of shape, so I cut the damaged part off (literally 2" across at an angle) and was done with it.

 

Telling me I'm "simple-minded" and "thick-skulled" isn't really appropriate.

Now you are saying the problem is the backspacing of the wheels.

So if the problem is as simple as wheel backspacing (which I'm sure it's not, 4.5" on an 8" rim is plenty fine), then why didn't you just switch the wheels out?

If the above is what the situation actually was, and you had a choice of:

A) Switching out the wheels and solving the problem with no harm done

and

B) Cutting the fenders with a power saw

Why would you ever choose option B?

 

Because I was told that this was the proper backspacing for my car, and once tires are mounted on the wheel, they are NOT returnable. Also, these wheels are only made in that specific backspacing even I was able to exchange them. I had no choice, and the car was getting new fenders before paint anyway, and the backspacing problem will HAVE to be dealt with then.

 

I wonder if the tires were little thicker then most, probably what's giving you the grief.

 

It's the way the LCA is shimmed. You can see in the pic the wheel is shifted towards the rear. My car does the same thing (not to the same extent tho) at each lock but on the front side of the liner on one side and the rear of the other side with the stock wheels and oe size tires. The fix is a proper allignment where the tech adjusts the caster angle specifically, along with camber and toe.

 

That's what must have fixed my issue.. I put 4.6 caster on the right side and 4.0 caster on the left side. This seemed to fix the issue for me..

 

you cant shim the lca ins a 3rd gen.

I told the OP in the other thread that these wheels will fit, im not going to hide. Thats because they WILL fit, this width/backspacing is used on many other cars here, both of mine included, 16x8 4.5 bs on my92 and 18x8 4.5 bs on my 86, both with 245 width tires, and i dont rub anywhere, on either car. You can even use wider wheels and tires and still not have this issue. And cutting the fenders? the only time ive ever seen that needed is to fit a 11" wheel in the front. So there is something terribly wrong here.

Something is wrong with the alignment, or parts are bent, something is off and causing this.

 

I am absolutely not blaming you at all, in fact I greatly appreciate all the help you've given me. I know that these wheels/backspacing will work on a thirdgen because I have read it numerous places. The people that have looked at it said that the backspacing is to blame, and I guess I didn't second guess them, as everything looked proper and not broken.

I am used to having the 1 in a million problem so I am not going to get mad about it, I just HAD to fix it the only way that I could figure and that was trimming the fender. I can take a pic of the fender, it really isnt as bad as it sounds..

 

thats fine, i didnt see you calling me out or anything, just throwing it out there. I appreciate you patience.

anyway, for ***** and giggles, can you grab a measurements from the back of the fender to the tire? I put a straight edge (12" stick ruler) flat against the fender, sitting on top of the ground effects top lip, and ended up with about 2.75 to the tire on my 92, about 3.25 in the front measured the same way.

is your front end stock? any aftermarket parts? i dont remember if tyour car was aligned or not. Are the strut mounts damaged or shot?

****edit

i just noticed you car doesnt have ground effects.... i'll have to measure to a different point. But i think the top of the gfx was about the center of the tire off the ground

did you happen to measure the wheels for the backspacing? is it possible you ended up with wheels with the wrong specs? maybe they have less BS and thast causing this? IDK if thats the case since in you pics they appear to be sitting in the right spot and not sticking out.

 

Thats whats got me confused, they certainly don't look like the wrong backspacing at all. The box they came in had all the right fitment info on them but I never actually measured the wheels before installation. As far as I know the front end is all stock as far as the a-arms and such are concerned.. The strut mounts, tie rods, pitman arm, and pretty much all the rest of the steering components have been replaced with what looks like just stock replacement parts. I will try to get a measurement of the center of my tire vs. the front/rear of my fender and see what I get. I do feel that the car does need an alignment as it pulls a little to one side (can't remember which side right now for some reason..).

Here is a picture of the car before I replaced the wheels, and it really does look like the front wheel sits a bit further back than it should, but the wheel may also be turned a bit.

 

that actually looks really far back, and they wheels look pretty straight, which would explain the rubbing. but why is it back so far....

both side the same?

 

In reading your post there are a few issue that I can see. First it looks like you have a bad LCA Bushing on that car that is causing some rub issues. Next tihing you need to check is that you have the correct wheel spacers for your wheels. With any 8" wide you will need a 2.22" spacer in front and a 1.5" spacer in the rear, assuming that you have a stock rear and not a 4th gen rear. Lastly we come to steering boxes. Any 82-84 Fbody that did not comes with 16" wheels from the factory, so this means the bump stops built in to the steering gear box are not set up for anything wider then a 225 tire. There will be rub not matter what spacers you use. in you plan to run a tire larger then 225. Your best bet is to find a "Z" code steering box out of an 85-92 from a car that had 16" wheels from the factory so you wont have any rub issues.

hope this helps,
Rob..

 

Yeha it's sitting way too far back.. What are your alignment specs??

 

I didn't need the spacers because these wheels supposedly have the correct backspacing allready and don't need adapters to be ran on third gens. If I was using 4th gen wheels than yes I would need spacers.

I don't know any alignment specs...

 

That wheel is sitting a full 2" further back in the wheel well than it should be.

 

There is something really wrong with the front end. Still having difficulty understanding that you cut up your car all the while knowing something wasn't right.

 

It only looks that way in THAT picture, and that was with the old wheels. If you drove the car and tried to turn more than 1/2 way, you would understand why I got so fed up I -->TRIMMED<-- the -->FENDERS<--, I did not "cut up the car". There is quite a difference. Its not like I sawed the fenders in half and duct taped them back on..

 

He can buy new fender liners if one day he wants to put it back to what it used to be, so I think knowing that I could find one and replace it, I would have done the same thing just to actually drive and enjoy the car.

I still think he should fix the problem because his wheels being far back like that will screw up handling in the car (in our cars, moving the wheels forward towards where the weight is makes more sense, not moving the wheels backwards).

 

A few things.

You're right that a 245/45R17 should fit just about the same as a 245/50R16 stock tire. But,

Some people include the rim bead in backspacing numbers. The bead doesn't affect tire placement in the wheel well. And it means you get a different backspacing number depending on whether a wheel is steel or alloy; has a thick bead or thin. So it's an abused and ill-defined number and taking advise on the internet based on "backspacing" can lead you down the wrong path potentially.

Use offset to compare wheels and you'll be comparing apples to apples. Front 16x8 stock wheels were 0 offset and 4.0" ACTUAL backspacing (mounting face to inside of bead.) Period. If your wheels are 17x8" and 0 offset, then that's definitely not the problem. But wait, there's more.

A-arms are mentioned as are steering boxes. The lower a-arm design and shape was used in A/G-bodies, S-series 2WD trucks and F-bodies. Same length, major stamping and balljoint. Bushing o.d. sizes varied as did steering stops. It's possible to use one in another chassis. If you didn't buy your car new, you may want to start taking pictures of the a-arms and measurements of the bushings to see if those arms are F-body units. The steering stops may not even matter. But even if they don't, you're still well-advised to get a steering box from a 16" wheel car like mentioned earlier.

You're taking some heat that your car is at issue and shouldn't have trimmed. Well maybe you should check out how the K-member is bolted in and start taking measurements as well as inspecting for prior damage to the stubframe sections of the floor. If the K can slide around at all, maybe it was serviced at some point in time and needs loosened and slid up. I don't remember if they can. Older cars get things done to them in repair, the car gets sold and the next owner becomes the recipient of the "fixes" done.

Good luck.

 

It should have cam bolts then (I've never done anything to the LCAs of an f body) but something must be damaged if it's that far back.

 

Nope. Straight bolts through normal holes in the frame through steel sleeves in the centre of the bushings.

 

FML That's what happens when you only work on Mopars. I'm honestly surprised there's no adjustment there.

 

The K-member is not adjustable from what I know. I had a problem at one point where my driver's side wheel was sticking out further than the passenger side but I ended up finding out that there was an accident at one point and the fender had to be pulled a bit because everything was straight and measured properly. Maybe the car was in an accident and somethings are shifted / bent as suggested above. I went crazy trying to look for problems when the problem was the somewhat 'ok' repair job done before I owned the car.

 

its a McPherson strut, only real adjustment is in the strut mount.

 

what thread did you read? he is not using 4th gen offset wheels, so no need for spacers. If he used them, the wheels would be sticking out form the side of the car 2" more.

as for the steering stops, that wont cause his issues. Both my cars had 15" wheels form the factory, have 15" stops and i dont rub. But that matter, my 86 doesnt have any steering stops currently and it doestn rub in the back like that, it rub slighly on the frame by the steering box/idler arm.

I have 16's on my 92, that has 15" stops, and again, it doesnt rub anywhere.

the "Z" on the box means nothing. been covered before.

however, you may be right with the LCA bushings, but im not positive that would cause this issue without having other driveability issues.

 

FWIW, there are two different-sized bushings, one for 82-mid 83, and then one for 83-92.

EDIT: Global West sells Del-a-Lums
Kit 1021 82-83 mid year has a bushing of 1 5/8 inches OD
Kit 1022 83-92 has a bushing of 1.915 inches OD

JamesC

 

Thats what I have been thinking.. If this problem is in-fact caused by actual damage to the frame or suspension components, the driveability of it would be dramatically damaged as well. Clearly something is amiss, but I guess thats what were trying to determine..

 

Go figure I have an 83, lol.