Anyone have that article of CHP where they do some suspension mods to a Thirdgen Camaro and compares it with the slalom and skidpad figures of the cars it'll toast? A link, or could someone scan it?

I can't seem to find the mag.

 

Really Ferraris and Porsches are style, if you have the money, but for those of you who know....A stock fully optioned IROC-Z with 245/50's will pull .89g's on the skidpad. That's not messin' around! There have been reported measurements of the mid .90's with larger wheels and tires!

I wanna see the article!

 

I too just heard of some article in some chevy mag stating that a base 91 RS with I forget what tires on a 16x9(.5?) inch rim pulled .95g's on the skidpad... no other suspension mods added. See if i Can get the article tomorrow and give actual fact

 

That'd be great too, but the one I had in mind they first started off by replacing all the bushings (to make the car like new), then did springs, shocks, a slight drop, and 17X?? in rims, and the car not only pulled impressive numbers on the skidpad, but also had EXTREMELY impressive slalom numbers. I believe it out slalomed an F355!:hail:

 

the 91 rs you're talking about is in the magazine article section on this site. It was a comparison between the rs camaro and the ls mustang. the camaro whooped it in the handeling department

 

Esentially the latest model of the RS and Z-28 are almost the same, except for the springs I believe. The sway bars are the same and the wheel are the same. I am pretty arn sure I saw the article he's talking about and also in The Camaro Performance handbook by David Shelby, he talks about outhandling High end car no problem in the suspension section.

 

somebody wanna post a link cause i cant find it on their site.

 

SOMEONE has to have that Chevy High Performance article. Trust me, a Camaro out handliing a F355 is much more impressive than a Camaro outhandling a mustang.:lala:

 

https://www.thirdgen.org/newdesign/a...shootout.shtml

thats the one about the 91 rs, i dunno about the ferrari one though

 

The '91 & '92 RS got the 34 mm hollow front sway bar and 21 mm solid rear IF it came with the 16" wheels from the factory.

The springs (both F&R) were the same on all cars, regardless of sway bars, wheels, or whether it was a Z28 or RS.

 

so my 92 rs, which came with the 16 inch wheels has the same suspension as the z28's?

 

Yeah but I think that the front springs had different rates on the Z-28.

All of the rear springs are the same, you'll figure this out if you ever try to order stock springs.

I have IROC springs on my 91' RS and they are way, way, way different than stock. I don't know if the 91 and 92 Z's had the same springs as the IROCs though.

 

are there any other differences other than the springs?

 

NOPE. Unless you have a 1LE.

 

sweet, i thought the z had a wonderbar or something like that, but guess not, makes me feel even better about my little rs

 

OK, I hate to bum your stone.
I'm just as all about value as the rest of you, but the mid engine 355 Ferrari smokes even a heavily modded LS1 Z28 in the corners.
Now the Camaro is faster down the front straight and I laugh at the ferraris on the straights at Laguna Seca. and Thunderhill, but they are still faster around the track.
Even 308s outhandle the camaro, slow as they are
It's a 2700 lb mid engine V8.

Sorry to rain on the parade.
And...
at the end of the day, a Camaro is still a Cheby, and he's driiving a Ferrari

 

I'm goin to watch the race today with the guy who told me about the article where a '91 RS pulled .95g's so if it actually exists I'll have it posted/scanned on here sunday evening.

 

The Herb Adams catalog shows a third gen w metal busings and sway bars etc getting into the high 90s on the Skid Pad, and herb has the goods to get it there

 

there was an article in car and driver where a 90 or 91 rs pulled .90 completely stock.

 

Have a little faith, brotha!

Since the Third gens make a mockery out of the 4th gen LT1/LS1 cars in handling, don't compare apples to oranges. And you don't see too many Ferraris out on the track in the first place, at least not around here.

 

In my book- any comparison testing of vehicles should be done with the same exact tire brand/ style. Size should not have to be the same but rubber compound and sidewall strength should be consistent.

example: one car on Goodyear Eagles 245/50/16-the other one running Pirelli's 275/40/17 is not a fair comparison.
(cars should run their factory size tires yes but both should run Eagles or both should run BFG kd's or what ever... they should just match.

 

OK, the article I just read said a 91 RS with 1" drop springs, moog poly bushings, z28 sway bars, 12:1 steering box on 17x9.5 wheels with 255/40/17 BFG's pulled .95g's on the skidpad... so not exactly stock but not far from either really. Basically just stock with some meats... they said the car did .88g's before they touched it. Figure a '02 vette does .91g's ... still very very impressive.

 

That's F55 territory? I thought that they were around .98g? No?
z-28 Sway bars? RS and Z-28 have the same sway bars for 91 + 92 providing the Rs came with 16 inch wheels from the factory, if not then they just put the upgraded RS sway bars on.

Does it say what kind of drop springs they used?

They should have used 275/40/17's on those 9.5 inch wide wheels. They might have gotten a better G reading.

 

I just said Z28 sway bars cause, yes, there is a diff if you didn't get an RS with 16" wheels and that's the version they had. Also the there's more than one article being spoken for in this thread... mine didn't have anything to do with competing against any other cars... that was another supposed article... on another note I forgot to post the slalom time... stock 61.X mph and modified it was 66.7 mph. Doesn't say which kind of springs were used.

275's getting better grip than 255's on a 17x9.5 wheel might be a good arguement... more tread but also more sidewall... what do ya'll think is a optimal size for 17x9.5 wheels in a 40 series tire?

 

To compare some unofficial specs I found on a '94 Ferrari 355 are .98's skidpad and 64.3mph in the slalom.

seen a couple other specs of .96g's also for different years but no other slalom times. Stock sized tires on a 355 are 225/40/18(19) fronts and 255/40/18(19) rears.

One MAJOR thing to remember is that the 355 has alot of power and braking performane over an RS also which would be a big deal in the slalom.

 

Ok, I'm gonna throw in another 2 cents here.

I have an old article (I am the UNDISPUTED King of old Third Gen articles) of a TA that pulled .996g average with Bridgestone 245-50-16 street tires (Car Craft Dec 1990). The car had Bilstein struts/shock, suspension techniques sway bars, and suspesnion techniques lowering springs. There were no subframes, torque arm, rear control arms, panhrd rod, or STB, those pieces were all dead stock. Now if you were to optimize the combo with 275-40-17 rubber, subframes, control arms, TQ arm, and panhrad rod, it would handle even better (around 1.05g), which would probably be enough to competitively race against the turn-key ferrari race cars (street models meant for racing, anyway). I am not saying you would have the power, but you sure would have the handling. It would only take about 5 minutes to call Baer and order a $1,100 kit to destroy the Brembo brakes adavantage too (actually it wouldn't even be fair). Then you install a ZZ430 crate motor and say good bye. Oh yeah, did I mention that you can do this work in your driveway?

 

Interesting thread, I was wondering how they measure these cornering G's?

Use an accelerometer similar to a G-Tech on a skid pad or something?

From what I understand wouldn't the speed through the slalom cones be a better indication of a car's handling ability rather than the sustained or peak g-force?

The limiting factor on a skid pad would most likely be the tires.

 

I did say the 355 has us in the turns, but they can't pull a basicly stock LS1 on the straights
Actually There is a 355 and a 308 in one of the local track clubs I run with.
I usually have about 2 or 3 car lengths on the 355 going into turn to at Laguna in my 4th gen.
We have to be polite to other drivers as a matter of sportsmanship. He hasn't passed me yet on his car or driving ability, I usually lift for him going into turn 5. he's all over me in t2, 3,and 4, but still can't get by me without my throttle lift, even in open passing.
I do enjoy it.
Just for the heck of saying so, I regularly smoke NSXs, Lotus V8s, (must be the driver) and everything but vipers and new vettes in club driving, turns and straights.
The Dinan M3s and M5s can hang pretty good on the straights, but it comes down to driving ability with all these cars, and I rank basically good in club open tracks and slow among equal racers.
I was depressed to see how fast the L98 vettes (84-91) are in the turns and how slow they are in the straights,
I had one all over me from t5 down to 11 one time, and I had to lift in 3rd to let him by on the front straight.
This was all in my LS1 Camaro.
There is only a couple of super fast GT350 guys that are faster then my 84 racecar at the Shelby club events

 

here is a portion of the article you were asking about. It is from CHP and not motor trend. The photo is compliments of Motor Trend.

The Camaro does not beat them all in the skid pad but is way faster on the Slalom.




Ric

 

Damn the camaro's front end geometry is good!

 

Thank you, that is EXACTLY what I was looking for!:hail:

 

wow, notice STOCK the 91 RS beat the 99 Vette in the slalom

 

Bull****.

The Z28 got stiffer springs in the front, as well as harder rubber bushings all around, different front control arms, thicker sway bars, etc.

The F41 RS isn't far off from the Z28 in handling but they definitely do not use the same springs all around, and the sway bars are not the only difference.

 

Don't quote me here but I imagine the only difference between V8 models of the RS and Z28 are:

engine
swaybars(optional if RS came with 16" wheels)
wheels(optional 16" for RS, otherwise 15")
tires(215/something/something, optional 245/50/something with 16" wheel option)

Now if the RS model were a V6 then yes I'd assume it will have different front springs, transmission as well as the above mentioned.

I've never heard/read anything about different bushings... can anyone back this up or give some hard evidence?

 

Dammit!.... the sway bars asre the same on the optioned out RS, or the one with the 16 inch wheels as the Z-28. LIKE I said, the Z-28 only had stiffer FRONT springs.

The REAR springs on ALL thirdgens with a V-8 are the same.

As far as harder rubber bushings and different front control arms...I am not sure, but I can tell you that I Highly doubt that the front control arms are different. If anything they are a bit thicker because the springs have a much stiffer rate.

Are you trying to say that the 91-92 Z-28's came with a 36mm sway bar? You said they are thicker than the RS which has a 34mm. The only 36mm sway bars that came on thirdgens were in IROCS and GTA's which also had the stiffest front springs on the planet, stiffer than the 91-92 Z.

 

Do the research folks. None of this is highly classified information. All you have to do is pickup a sales brochure for the 91 Camaro and you'll have most of the information you need.

I also cataloged spring codes for 40+ thirdgens, and to say that every V8 thirdgen has the same rear springs is incorrect.

If you want to argue with me you better back up your findings with printed material. Check the sales brochures check the parts and illustration catalogs, check a Z28 side by side with an RS and then post your findings.

You can either take my word for this or you can research it. I've got more printed material on these cars then most people know exists and I've read it all from cover to cover.

 

Jeeze...... calm down.

I never said anything about rubber, control arms, or anything like that, but when I went to replace my stock springs, I asked the parts guy at the local Chevy dealer (whose been there 12 yrs). According to his part numbers, the springs for the '91-92 RS (with 16" factory wheels) and '91-'92 Z28 are the same springs. I was both surprised and upset at the same time because I thought it was a prime opportunity to change over to the Z28 springs.

As far as the rest, I don't know. I didn't need to replace those so I didn't look into it. I only posted what I was told (and shown) from someone who had GM part numbers right there in front of him. They may just be universal replacement numbers now due to the age of the cars? I dunno.

I didn't mean to offend anyone (never thought I'd have to worry about it ). Is it time for someone's "happy pills"?

 

BTW, I did just remember that I asked him while he was looking up the rears. I figured he meant the fronts also, but he may have only been referring to the rears.

Cuff me, frisk me, call me Shirley.

 

Side by side....
How's a trans am....2 Z-28's ...and a 91' RS do for comparisons??

BTW, rear springs... are you checking part#'s or do they list the rates of the springs...cause if you are checking the rates then you must be correct..if there is a diff. part # that mean absolutely squat.

Why get annoyed about it? The best springs for all out handling from the factory for the Thirdgen was the IROC springs. If you go to napa...autozone...Kragen..pretty much any auto parts store that has accesibility to springs, you will find a universal Rear spring set.

I don't want to set off any tempers but I hope you are not one of those guys who has the issues with RS's just cause they were produced cheaper than the Z's. You can mod both cars equally and as far as suspension goes they aqre pretty darn equal so you should get over it. What I mean is don't be one of those guys who is being pissed because you don't want to hear that your almighty Z-28 has the same suspension as a crappy RS.

 

I'll put my crappy RS heads up in slolam to anyones z28 on this board. (Street car- no skins allowed)
Edit: Oh yes I do have a pocket full of cash to back that. ( Mine doesn't have to be stock does it )

 

You know I was kidding right?

I was saying in term of that he thinks an RS is crappy, not me.

I'll put my RS heads to anyone on this board myself, IROC springs are definately the stiffest on the block!

 

I know your kidding, I'm just boasting a little fun. Iroc springs are no match to my 800 # springs on a light V6 car. No V8 is going to out handle me in slalom- that part I wasn't kidding.

 

hey rachet and mikeD? Where did you get the article from? Month and publisher please.

 

oh and there are no 34mm sway bars that are hollow..the only ones that are hollow is the 36 that came on the 1le and some WS6 cars...

 

It's Chevy High Performance...I have no idea what issue though. I have it around at home somewhere I think, I'll have to dig it up.

 

i think its funny that an 11 year old car will out handle a new one....yea stock for stock the 4th gen will pull u a little on the straits..

i love the way my GTA drives...and the gta springs are stiffer (cuz that what i have
)

 

The Camaro used in that article belonged to Doug Glad, a former editor for CHP. He moved over to Car Craft and shortly after changed positions within the company to focus on the internet. I'm not sure if Doug still works for CC or not, I haven't talked to him in a while.

His car was frequently used for articles in CHP and as a result had some very nice "goodies" added to it. He eventually sold the car on eBay.

 

The Article is in Chevy High Performance October 1999 issue.

This is the second part of a two part article and unfortunately I do not have the previous issue however they tell you everything in this concluding article

Ric

 

The first thing that scares me about your confirmations is the fact that you got it from sales brochures! If you spent more time actually working on the cars instead of reading Chevrolet's propaganda brochures they use to boost sales, you might actually notice how many things are exactly the same on all camaros. GM will do anything to save a buck or two when it comes to production costs. Why do you think I just finished spending a fortune on all the parts for the 1LE brake upgrade when it should have been the standard brakes on all the cars! With GM constantly trying to save money on production costs, you're trying to tell me they had different control arms on the Z/28's? All the control arm does is hold the coil spring in and attach the lower spindle. Why the hell would there be any need for a different design between the two models? As far as different rubber in the bushings, that's a total riot! Energy suspension wouldn't be selling poly bushings like hotcakes if GM had actually designed their bushings for long life, durability, and performance! Once again, this would've cost them more money to produce two different styles of bushings. Next you're probably gonna try to convince everyone that the Z/28 got "special" sway bar end links that don't rot, become as thin as a pencil, and break just like the rest of the camaros on planet earth because some yahoo salesman at the local chevy dealership said so right? I've yanked lots of parts off of Z/28's and RS's, and the only differences I noticed in the suspension parts were bigger sway bars and different spring ID tags. The rest of the pieces are the standard issue, stamp them out cheaply by the thousands chassis pieces. Oh yeah, I forgot about the "wonderbar", which I've already added to mine along with the bigger sway bars and stiffer springs. Why do you think the camaro never got the same engine parts and brakes as the corvette as regular production options? *** forbid they actually make a cheaper car that can outperform the almighty corvette right? In fact, GM cares so little about the f-body that they discontinued it just so they can afford to build more ridiculously huge SUV's for cell phone using blondes to drive around and maim people with. Our cars got cancelled, but they still offer the awe-inspiring corvette that the average guy can't afford! There! I've stated my opinion, vented about GM's relentless stupidity and ignorance to their customer's wants and hopes, and I feel much better!

 

found it. june 2000 CHP 91 Z28 pulled 1.01g's and 62.3 mph 275/40-17 BFG g-force KD on 17x9.5 wheels. before adjusting the panhard rod to center the rear, it was .96g and 59.2mph.