Jim85IROC

iTrader: (2)

I'm almost ready to start making empty kick panels. I popped my first one out of the mold, and before the weekend is over it'll be carpeted, mounted, and have speakers in them for pictures.

I'm going to make a few more and have them ready for carpet before I start taking orders though. I don't want to get backed up with more orders than I can handle right away.

Pricing will be as I indicated earlier. $200/pair for carpeted. As of right now my molds aren't good enough for me to offer painted copies, but hopefully soon that'll change.

Hopefully I'll have an update (with pics) on monday.

For those waiting for kicks with the custom made component speakers, that shouldn't be too far off. I'm going to use the money from these sales to get new measurement software and try to get the ball rolling on finishing those.

blyth18md

Are they enclosed, or open backed? Are they pre-cut for speaker size? if so what size?

Jim85IROC

iTrader: (2)

The kicks are designed to accomodate a typical 6.5" component set. Whether or not the back is opened is up to you because these bolt to your factory kick panels, but with most typical 6.5" speakers, you need to cut the factory kick for magnet clearance. I can supply a backing piece that glues over the cut-out section for an additional cost, but since virtually all car audio component sets use a woofer with a very high qts, in almost all cases you'll get better sound quality with the rear opened.

Gummie

Any progress?

BumpaD82

Can't wait I need a set of Kicks for the 6.5 woffers in the MBQ
http://www.mbquart.com/2003/en_US/pr...&model=PSC+316

And it would be nice to use this mounting (see pic) THINK IT WOULD BE POSSILBE ? I could send you a set of mount rings / etc. to mold in if it would help. ~DaVe

Jim85IROC

iTrader: (2)

Not really. I thought I was going to have a spare set because the person I'm building this first set for had to back out, but that changed and he's buying them again, so I'm sending them off shortly. Once I do, I'm going to clean up the molds so that I can make a new set to finish my development on. I just want to come up with a jig so that I can install the mounting tabs in the same place on all of them instead of having to trace out a new installation template for every set I make.


Bump:

I'm not sure those will fit. 7.75" diameter is fricking huge for a 6.5" speaker. Hell, that's 8" woofer territory. I'll remeasure, but I think the maximum diameter that will fit in my kicks is 7". I know that for my RE woofers, I had to trim back the mounting ring to fit the holes, and I suspect that some people will have to do the same. I didn't want to make the opening any bigger because packaging would have gotten more complicated, and it would look stupid with speakers that had a smaller footprint. The 7" that I used should work with most speakers, and for the few that are too large, virtually all of them should be able to get adequately trimmed for proper fitment.

Trimming the plastic mounting rings isn't really too hard, although it can be a bit time consuming if you don't have the proper tools handy.

Gummie

Thanks for the info/update. I hate to ask, but do you have any kind of time frame in mind?

BumpaD82

Well if you can get 7" out of them I could make the rings work....

I would just have to pretty much emlinate the flange But I have a few sets of rings and plent of stuff to cut them with

THANKS ~DaVe

REZN8R

Hey, I didn't know you were getting in the biz Jim

Mine will probably be ready in August, but it sounds like we're selling completely different designs anyway. Maybe I'll just skip the molding and use my plugs for my own car. I'm only running rear-fill and subs right now. The sound quality isn't too great.

Jim85IROC

iTrader: (2)

Rez,

The kick panel thing is sort of a first step to a more ambitious project that I'm working on. I'm developing a set of component speakers specifically for the kick panel location, and as part of that, I'm developing the kick panels for them too. The way I see it, the absolute best sound quality requires custom kicks with drivers designed to work in that specific environment, then a filter built specifically for those speakers in that installation. Since I've got to develop the kicks for that project, I figured I might as well offer them separately for those who want to use them with their own components.

Once I pop out enough kicks to satisfy the current demand, I'm going to continue developing the components that I actually designed them for.

But either way, hopefully my kicks won't impact your sales much. Like you said, I think they are different enough that it shouldn't have much impact.

REZN8R

That's cool. I'll take the budget minded buyers and you can have the audiophiles

With the in-car video craze you might do well to make a mold of your video screen mount too. I don't know if it's possible or not, but a bolt-on style pod for an LCD screen might be a big hit?

Jim85IROC

iTrader: (2)

That's not a bad idea, except so far I have a tendancy to destroy things I make mods of unless they are very, very sturdy.

Justins86bird

bribe the mod, let you post for sale ads he will

ScrapMaker

I'm still waiting for the custom woofer complete kickpanel set...

I'm sorta glad you're not ready to sell them yet, because I don't have the money to spend on them yet...

can't wait though.

Jim85IROC

iTrader: (2)

Those were my main reason for coming up with these in the first place, but I never planned on these taking as ridiculously long as they did.

Unfortunately, my neighbor can smell the poly when I mix it up, and since they have a newborn, that means no more fiberglassing in my basement. That means that I can only lay the fiberglass when the weather is good enough to do it outside or in my garage, which means the camaro has to sit outside. Either way, it means a lot less opportunity for fiberglassing.

But... I'm not far away from being able to pop a few out so that I can get back to working on the components.

REZN8R

Tried the epoxy resin? Not nearly as potent. I used it in the Camaro and could actually ride in it the next day.

Select products makes a Bubble Gum scented poly resin, but I haven't used it.

Jim85IROC

iTrader: (2)

I've got some of the epoxy resin but I find it to be considerably less convenient than poly.

Even though it doesn't smell, if it's just as bad to breathe, I still shouldn't be doing it with the baby around.

Jim85IROC

iTrader: (2)

Here are pics of the carpeted set that I just finished:

82firebird

Wow those are nice! Good work Jim!

ddn69

ya those are sweet. especially that u can take them off and such.

ScrapMaker

so you just cut a hole to keep that higher q? and screw the enclosure directly to the kickpanel? looks great

the only thing is, with this design, as you've already mentioned, you need a woofer with a great off-axis sound reproduction, but you save precious leg-room.

Jim85IROC

iTrader: (2)

Every 6.5" woofer has bad off axis performance at higher frequencies. THat's why my design is aimed at pushing the crossover frequency lower.

The back is open because I needed the clearance for the magnet. If it was a lower Q woofer, I would have made a fiberglass piece to cover the hole as a test, but with this woofer there won't be a benefit.

ScrapMaker

Which frequencies are we referring to? If we are talking frequencies that the tweeter would normally operate at, could you not just angle the tweeter more towards the driver/passenger? Or are you referring to the higher-end frequencies that the 6.5" woofer would typically play?

Is your goal is to find a woofer that you can cut off before it gets to the higher frequencies, and match it with a tweeter that can easily handle what's left?

One more thing, that you can probably answer, but would there ever be a benefit in having multiple woofers in the kickpanel, even though you have the same airspace? Let's say for example, that you created a custom fiberglass enclosure that would hold two smaller 4" woofers, you could create a network of filters that allowed one 4" woofer to play deeper bass, and the other could play the higher frequencies and not be distorted by playing the bass of the other...

I wonder, if it is always better to just go with the larger single 6.5" woofer?

I know that a lot of home audio speaker towers have identical pairs of speakers in each tower, that simply play different frequencies to ensure accurate playback.

More realistically, it would work out as one 4", and one 3" woofer... to create a 3-way setup, but would it work as a 3-way setup the method I was referring to earlier?

Jim85IROC

iTrader: (2)

That's the whole point by lowering the crossover frequency... to let the tweeter, which is not directional at those frequencies play it instead of requiring the woofer to. The problem is, most car audio tweeters, due to their compact design, are fairly useless below 3500hz. It's not easy finding a tweeter that sounds ok down to 2k or 2500hz. It's all a comprimise.

Running 2 4" woofers would create a whole new host of problems (and crossover complexity) and offer no real benefits. A 4" woofer isn't going to be able to play as deep as a 6.5" unless it's got very high excursion and high mass, which will make it extremely inefficient. You'd also probably wind up with excessive 2nd harmonic distortion, which actually isn't always a bad thing when trying to make a little woofer sound bigger, but none the less, it's still distortion and not something that a purist would want.

A lot of home audio speakers use a 2.5-way configuration that uses 2 woofers. One woofer plays up to the tweeter crossover, and the other woofer is used to suppliment the first at low frequencies. This is done to compensate for something called baffle step. When you put a woofer in a room, you get a 360 degree radiation pattern up until the frequency where the wavelength equals the width of the enclosure. Around that frequency, the 360 degree (or 2 Pi) radiation field transitions into a 1 Pi radiation field because any signal trying to travel back reflects off the front of the enclosure and provides approximately a 6dB boost in output.

So... that 2nd woofer is usually run with a 6dB/octave low pass centered around the baffle step frequency to compensate for the theoretical 6dB loss below the baffle step frequency.

You don't get a baffle step situation in an automobile for a number of reasons, but primarily because your speaker is up against the edge instead of out in the middle of the car.

NEEDAZ

I so need to do more reading. Saving money now.....

ScrapMaker

I figured it had something to do with room harmonics, because our home theatre has twin towers(oh noes!) that have two 4" woofers that look identical, then a smaller 2" and a tweeter, you can see one woofer definitely moves more than the other.

I have noticed that you don't get the full bass 'effect' unless you are sitting within 15 degrees left or right of the front of the speakers... off to the side, or behind, you get nothing, not like a woofer with bass-reflex(like my bookshelf speakers that sound bassy from any angle)

Jim, you might want to make a half dozen of those full kick systems before you even tell us about them, or you'll be swamped!

Jim85IROC

iTrader: (2)

If one of those woofers is moving more than the other, then chances are it's just set up as a 3 way. In a 2.5 way like I described, I doubt you'll be able to see a visible difference in excursion between the two drivers.

Unfortunately, with a lot of stuff (both home and car audio), it's 99% marketing and 1% engineering.

ScrapMaker

Ideally, in the car environment, would it not be better for the woofer to play the frequencies it wants to, and just aim it so it's not off-axis? Is your method going to give a cleaner, fuller sound to everyone in the car, since you are working on good off-axis reproduction, and a great network setup?

basically I'm wondering why you aren't making the typical angled kickpanels.

Jim85IROC

iTrader: (2)

No matter what you do, you can't position both sides so that both front seat listeners are in the "sweet spot". It's a comprimise no matter how you choose to angle it.

I also feel that it's important to maintain drivability, so having a speaker sticking out 6" or being tucked into the floor/kick panel/firewall corner isn't going to cut it either. Given these constraints, you're stuck with positioning that leaves the speaker off axis, but since there are ways around it, you can still get good sound with this arrangement.

ScrapMaker

Cool, well as long as it's designed from the ground-up to be an off-axis system, I have high hopes for it. I have heard my friend's ranger, and I'm not too impressed by his speakers being in the doors... I can't even hear the speaker on my side...

Nate86

Sorry to dig up an old post, but I was wondering if you are now actually selling these kick panels and how much they cost if you are?

Jim85IROC

iTrader: (2)

I'm selling them in low quantities right now. I'm not really promoting that fact because I've been too busy with other things, but I can squeeze out a set now and then. If you're interrested in a set or interrested in a price, please PM or email me. Thanks.

Matthew91-Z28

So...I just want to clarify. The q-logic will only hold a 5.25" speaker (and tweeter), right? But your design will hold a decent 6.5" subwoofer? Thats really cool if so, because the size from whats on the market (q-logic) was preventing me from buying kicks.

Just making sure because its time for some sound upgrades and I'm seriously looking for kick panels. Thanks.....

Jim85IROC

iTrader: (2)

yes, my design should hold any 6.5 on the market. Some of the grills need trimming, but the woofers themselves fit.

if all goes well, I may have a set that fits 7" woofers too.

ScrapMaker

whoa! 7"? do you think those will sound just as accurate as the smaller drivers?

I'd love to see a 3-way component setup! how possible is that?

Jim85IROC

iTrader: (2)

3 way components? No way. There isn't room.

As I may have mentioned before, after I finish up the first component set (if that ever happens... why don't I ever have time????), the plan is to develop a "premium" set, which will basically require me to use a 7" woofer. Most of the premium drivers on the market are 5.5" or 7". My current design is only 1/8" shy of being able to accomodate the 7" I have in mind, although once I take that step, I'm going to have to come up with a custom grill design, which is why I'll likely only offer these as part of the premium component/kick combo. They will be built for that specific purpose and not in a way that will lend itself to a universal fit.

ScrapMaker

so these premium 7" will obviously have more midbass than the 5.5", but what about the slightly-higher frequencies? is difference insignificant, other than the added bass?

Jim85IROC

iTrader: (2)

I don't expect them to have "more" midbass, nor do I expect them to differ significantly in the slightly higher frequencies. The benefit of the premium drivers is that they have a much more accurate, lower distortion sound. Honestly, I expect my "regular" ones to sound good enough that 99% of the people here probably wouldn't appreciate the difference, and certainly wouldn't want to spend the extra money.

I'm basically building this really good set for me, and if 1 or 2 other people want them, I'll build for them as well. Before anybody buys them, I'll caution them that unless they're really an audiophile, chances are they won't consider it a worthwhile upgrade.

ScrapMaker

Ah, personally, myself, I'd probably go with the 6.5"... that way if something goes bad, I can replace it easily...

ScrapMaker

What interests me the most ouf of all of this is that you are going to (hopefully) build a custom cross-over that will ensure the woofers you pick will work amazingly well in your specific enclsosure... rather than some generic cross-over that is intended for all sorts of enclosures...

Jim85IROC

iTrader: (2)

That's the plan. Now I've just got to see if that'll work out.

ScrapMaker

well even if you just make the enclosures... I can still buy 6.5" eD edi6500's... people seem to be foaming at the mouth over those things...

Jim85IROC

iTrader: (2)

oh, the rebadged overpriced CDT components? Yeah, I hear they're real nice.

1meanGTA

if you're going to spend 3 bills on a component set go with rainbow slc's or cdt's over ed. cdt is the same thing just cheaper. theres a guy over on caraudio.com that sells the hd-62 cdt's around 300, maybe cheaper, ill try to find him.

ScrapMaker

I've heard some stuff about that... are they truly CDT rebadged?

1meanGTA

yes, im not sure what model, i would guess the euro sports

Jim85IROC

iTrader: (2)

AOL IM: djdilliodon

As far as I know, they're either the exact same thing or very close.

Do a search on any of the car audio forums, and you'll find a lot of people who have a very different opinion of ED compared to a year or 2 ago. It seems that Ben pissed off a lot of people with his attitude. It's starting to shape up like the Audiomobile thing all over again.

ScrapMaker

To me, I could care less how the owner acts... I just care if they make a quality product that I actually want. That being said, if they just re-badge it... that's kinda lame. Guess it's time to do some research.

1meanGTA

same here. i knew about all the drama and all when i went amp shopping, but you can't beat 300 bucks shipped for an underrated, 1200x1 1 ohm stable amp that actually puts out over 1400 watts. i've never had any problems with ben, he seems like a good guy to me.

ScrapMaker

I don't know him, so I can't say. I can say, however, that the amp runs great, far better than expected, and it looks really clean to me.

That doesn't mean I have some un-waivering devotion to eD or anything... if the cdt components were truly the same exact thing, but cheaper, and the original designers of the product... then I'd obviously take those over the 6500's...