BOTTLEDZ28

iTrader: (9)

I just got through reading the HSR intall on the 86 IROC in GMHTP and have a few questions. First, whats up with the different fuel rail setup and second, WHY? Holley has 2 different fuel rail setups for that, 1 with an AFPR and one with a fixed FPR. they used holleys 9900-147 rails with a stand alone FPR. it seems they had to do quite a few modifications to get this to work. Again WHY?
Also, for those who have the HSR, if your using the fuel rail setup that comes with the kit, is the FPR in the same spot as the TPI one and is it as hard to adjust as the TPI one. (clearance wise)

dacuma

Actually the FPR is on the outside of the driver's FR, it's pretty easy to get too. I just have the FFPR, they didn't have the adjustable one ava. when I got mine. Here's some pics of it, I also set up my fuel rails alittle different from everyone on the board, I ran the cross over in the back.

http://community.webshots.com/photo/...41664198PRlKTF

this shows a decent shot of it, it's the FPR is the gold looking part of it near the wiper motor. Even with the pleumn still fairly easy to get too.

dacuma

Actually, when thinking about it, it's alittle harder than I thought. Now that I think about it ,You may have to take off your dis. cap, or even pleumn. Cause the part where you adj. probable be on the other side of the rail(now thats only if the AFPR is in the same location as the regular FPR). I think still alittle better than the tpi( cause you only have 4 bolts to take off the pleumn). IMO

I haven't seen the other FR kit your talking about, But I hope this helps some.

Kevin Gray

Back ordered fuel rails and my impatience were the main reasons. Plus I got a pretty good deal on the Aeromotive regulator making the total cost for me just marginally more expensive than the 534-186 AFPR kit.

It seems most of the pictures (not all) of the StealthRam has the return outlet on the valve cover side of the rails. You'll want to position the fuel fitting for the return line to the inside of the rails and point the regulator cap towards the valve covers to gain easy adjustment access. Doing so makes the AFPR in the 534-186 rail kit a lot easier to access for adjustment than the stock TPI regulator.

Hope that helps!

BOTTLEDZ28

iTrader: (9)

Are you refering to the kit you installed or the fuel rail kit that was designed for the HSR?

This install is the first that the thermostat housing had to be swapped out on. Was it because of clearnece issues? If so then where would it be hitting? My altenator is on the drivers side unlike yours.

Kevin Gray

I was referring to the positioning of the regulator for the StealthRam kits - for a rear exit return line.


The mounting position of the thermostat housing on the HSR intake is in the same location as a carbed intake. The mounting position for the TPI water neck is at a different angle and the water neck has a different exit angle. If you mount the TPI water neck on the HSR, the outlet points towards the valve cover. I didn't want to run a funky looking radiator hose over the valve cover to the water neck (as I've seen on a couple TPI to carbed applications). Also all the standard water necks for a SBC accept a 1 1/2" hose and the TPI hose is 1 1/4". I looked for a 1 1/4" thermostat housing with the outlet in the same position as a standard late model carbed SBC water neck, but couldn't find one. It appears you're stuck with buying a new thermostat housing and upper radiator hose. (They left off the fractions in the picture captions referencing hose sizes).

Just as an FYI, there's also a typo on the Holley intake number - it should read part number 7540. Two 1/2 NPT to 3/8 NPT adapters in the parts listing were left off - but were mentioned in the picture captions. Other than that, the listing provided should have you well prepared for a swap to the HSR.

BOTTLEDZ28

iTrader: (9)

Kevin, of all the parts in the parts list in the mag, what parts where used only bacause of the rails you got? I just ordered my HSR and while its being shipped I would like to get all the small stuff needed to make it easier for me when it comes time to install it.

What about the 2 fuel lines from EARL's? Would I need those exact ones if I am using the fuel rail kit from holley that is designed for the HSR?

Kevin Gray

The fuel related parts in the listing are:
9894DBH fitting that adapts your stock return fitting into a male -6 fitting
9894DBJ fitting that adapts your stock fuel feed line into a male - 6 fitting
Two 90 degree hose ends - to attach to these fittings
10 feet of Earl -6 hose.

If you look at the lower right corner of the 2nd picture on page 25 you see where the adapter fittings attach to the stock lines. You'll also see one of the 90 degree fittings and hose attached.

On page 26, the top right picture, in the bottom right corner shows how the braided lines hug the strut tower / inner fender. The lines continue around the right side of the brake booster, under the relays and over the back side of the brake booster to the rear of the engine.

On page 24, bottom right picture, you can see how the inlet hose is run behind the distributor and regulator.

I bought a 10 foot roll and had enough to build the inlet (approximately 55") and return line (approximately 44") and the front fuel crossover with a little hose to spare. You could get away with a lot less hose if you don't mind running the fuel line over the top of the valve cover.

I did not include the hose end fittings required to hook the braided hose to the StealthRam specific rails in the listing. Since I did not use the StealthRam specific rails, I wasn't sure which angle hose ends would work best with the fuel rail fittings supplied by Holley. In retrospect, I should have indicated that.

There are a few guys on this site that have used the Holley StealthRam specific fuel rail kits. Hopefully they can tell you the fittings they found to fit best for the Holley 90 degree fitting off the regulator and the Holley 90 degree inlet fitting on the rail. If not, hopefully you have a local speed shop close enough to run get the hose end fittings when you get to that point.

Hope that helps.

Kevin

Brad

While I didn't do everything EXACTLY like Kevin, here is a picture illustrating how I ran the fuel lines which is very close to Kevin's method. I like having the excess hose as it allowed me to route the fuel lines away from the headers as much as possible. I also opted for 180 degree fittings at the frame rather than 90 degree, although it wasn't 100% necessary.

BOTTLEDZ28

iTrader: (9)

brad that dont look to bad. i like it. The thing with kevins idea is that he ran fuel lines and fittings around the dist. I know I will get my HSR in the mail in about a week but I am trying to et fittings and stuff collected now while I wait. Does the HSR fuel rail kit have a specific way of hooking up the rails to the feed and return lines on the car?
One other thing. is there any gain to running the fuel lines through a cooling canister on a street car?

BOTTLEDZ28

iTrader: (9)

kevin, I was reading through the list of fittings and stuff that are mentioned in the mag. and I dont ever recall there being a 1/4" NPT bolt. Was the NPT not supose to be there or an I missing something here? Why where these bolts needed, cant I reuse my 3 bolts?

Kevin Gray

The Holley plenum is tapped for the standard bolts listed and the bolts holding the throttle bracket to your TPI are metric,,, and won't work for you.

Sorry,,, the original text had that covered along with other areas that may not be totally clear,,, but they feel victim to the space and picture count limitations.

HTH

92 zzz28

Kevin,
I have been reading about what you guys are discussing and find it informative. THanks for the pics and details as I will be ordering my HSR next month. I am confused about a few things though. Yous said you are not using the HSR specifc fuel rails. What fuel rails are you using? You said you are using an Aeromotive FPR. What PN is that? DId you find it easy to install the aeromotive FPR and adjust it? Thanks in advance.

Brad

I'm not sure exactly what all you're looking for in terms of help, but I can provide a whole directory of Stealthram pictures:

https://www.thirdgen.org/brad/stealth/

Keep in mind that the barbed fittings on the back of the intake weren't used. Instead, I used anodized -6 AN fittings like everyone else. These fittings thread to the HSR fuel rails. Also, just because I have the fuel pressure regulator turned the direction that you see in the pictures, does not mean that you have to turn it that direction. But the distributor doesn't allow for tons of clearance, so I opted to point the distributor as seen in the pictures.

For clarity, I used:

Qty 2, 180 degree -6 AN hose ends at the frame
Qty 2, 90 degree -6 AN hose ends at the fuel rails
Qty 1, Earls 9894DBH adapter for stock fuel lines
Qty 1, Earls 9894DBJ adapter for stock fuel lines
10 feet braided stainless -6 AN hose

I think that's everything.

BOTTLEDZ28

iTrader: (9)

Wow Brad thats all you used to hook up the fuel lines to the HSR? What came in the kit with the rails? I have been trying to get a list of stuff together and its seems that there is quite a few different ways of setting up the fuel rails. I know this is so simple to do but its the fact that this is my only car and I want to get this done in 1 day without finding out I need something and have no way of getting to the store becuz the car is apart. Im gonna try and assemble the rails while its off the car. I just have to pre make the lines. oh ya any tricks to making those lines? are they pretty straight forward or do I need a special tools. do any of the lines or fitting hit anything on the car

92 zzz28

Thanks for the pics. Is it possible to use a different AFPR? Kevin Gray mentioned he was running a Aeromotive unit. I was mostly wondering how that went.

BottledZ, you should be able to bend a hard line with a small tubing bender available at any hardware or autoparts store. You will need a flaring tool also. If you were talking about the stainless steel braided hose, thats pretty simple to. I never needed anything special to make braided lines. The fittings can be a pain but once you get two or three together you get the hand of it. On thing I do before cutting the hose is to wrap the section with masking or electrial tape to keep the steel from fraying. You can cut through it with a hacksaw and a couple of open end wrenches to tighten the fittings. Good luck with your installation, let us know how it goes.

BOTTLEDZ28

iTrader: (9)

92zzz8, I am going to take pics of every partused to do the fuel lines so that this can get cleared up for future HSR installers.Brad, was there and reason you chose to use 180 degree fittings instead of the 90 degree ones used by Kevin? also you mentioned that you discarded the barb fittings that came with the kit and used 2 90 degree -6AN hose ends. do you have the part number. are they male or female? thanks for th epics I will going through them now

BOTTLEDZ28

iTrader: (9)

One more thing? I am running a mechanical fuel pressure gauge off the shrader valve. My gauge is mounted in my cowl and the line is just long enough. Is there a way to get the line to be mounted on the back of the passegner side fuel rail instead of the front?

Jza

Yeah, use the 90° elbow with the schrader bung on the back instead of the front. I don't know if you quite get the idea, but you'll see when you get it. The fuel rail kit is like a set of Legos. You can put it together almost any way you want.

I have clearance problems between the waterneck and the TB coolant nipple, too. Just gotta find the right waterneck.

BOTTLEDZ28

iTrader: (9)

Jza, Kevin is using the waterneck from the TBI cars. is that what your using? Brad you have any pics of the HSR with thenew fitting on it? Im curious to see how you have the fittings on the passenger side rail.it looks like a close call with the dist being there

Brad

After the barbed fittings on the fuel rails are removed, female -6 AN hose ends thread right to the rails. Like I said, I used 90 degree female hose ends at the rails, pointing them both towards the master cylinder. If you look at the attached photo above, I used the 180 degree female hose ends at the frame. This was because I wanted to route the braided fuel lines back towards the firewall, but I did not want to have to cut my factory hard lines in case I wanted to go back to stock sometime in the future. I don't have any part numbers for these fittings, but they're just standard 90 and 180 degree female -6 AN hose ends.

My recommendation for cutting the braided stainless hose and installing the fittings is to wrap the point to be cut in electrical tape. Then use a Dremel with a cut-off wheel to give you a nice clean cut (Some people can use a hacksaw but I wasn't having a lot of luck with that method). I also left the tape on the hose when installing the fitting, because I don't see how it could hurt anything. Just use regular crescent wrenches for assembly.

HTH

Jza

No, I used a polished swivel SBC waterneck from Summit. It's a great piece, and only like $25, but it's *tall*... So it wasn't the angle, it was just the height of the housing. No biggie, I have a TBI housing. I just wanted that nice O-ring jobbie.

Kevin Gray

The link to the kit below uses the 9900-147 rails that I used. The HSR kits are very similar with only one crossover for the front. This kit pictured is designed for the rail with the regulator port to mount on the passenger side of their single plane (single carb like) intake and will not clear the HSR on the passenger side .
http://www.holley.com/HiOctn/ProdLin.../9900-172.html

As seen it in the link below, the 9900-147 is just the machined rails. I had a machinist tap the regulator port so I could use a 3/8” plug, since I didn’t plan on using it.
http://www.holley.com/HiOctn/ProdLin.../9900-147.html

Holley was back ordered on all the O-ring type fittings (that work with the rails) when I was desperately trying to get the HSR fueled. These are the individual part numbers for the fittings you find in the 9900-172 kit pictured above and the 534-185 and 534-186 HSR specific kits.
http://www.holley.com/HiOctn/ProdLin.../9900-163.html
http://www.holley.com/HiOctn/ProdLin.../9906-127.html
http://www.holley.com/HiOctn/ProdLin.../9906-126.html
http://www.holley.com/HiOctn/ProdLin.../9900-144.html

Since I couldn’t get the adjustable HSR rail kit, or the Holley fittings way back then, I went with the 90 degree O-ring XRP fittings. This link has the best listings for XRP parts, but I bought the fittings I used through a local distributor.
http://www.heads.co.nz/xrp-adapters.html#p12b

I used the following Aeromotive regulator (-10 inlets and –6 outlet are not included). Access to and adjustments to the regulator are a snap. The main advantage(s) I considered - even though the regulator in the HSR specific kit could supply more fuel than the engine could use in it’s current state, I would never have to buy another regulator regardless of what I did to the engine. Plus it’s just a real quality billet piece that’s rebuildable.
http://216.242.145.16/products/product.phtml?p=11

Other Aeromotive regulators could have been used. I considered their smaller universal stand alone versions that used –6 inlets (as seen below),,,,,, but guess what? They were back ordered as well.
http://www.aeromotiveinc.com/product...cat=Regulators

The other option was swapping sides with the 9900-147 rails (ball milling towards the intake side) so the stock regulator port would be on the driver’s side, like the 534-185 and 534-186 kits. The reg port opening on the 9900-147 rails is further back than the HSR kits,, so it was questionable whether or not clearance would come into play. I don’t know if this “option” would work for sure using the 9900-147 rails. Regardless, this would be a nice adjustable regulator upgrade for those that bought the original non-adjustable 534-185 kit (Holley uses the GN style regulators for their kits).
https://www.kirbanperformance.com/index_turboregal.htm
click on catalog, then fuel and ignition, then look at the billet GM regulator # 6547

Still,,, saying all this,,,, I would have used the HSR specific adjustable kit if I could have gotten it at the same time as I did the intake. Like Brad said, there is not much needed to complete the fuel line portion of the install using the HSR kit. 4 hose ends (angles will depend on how you run them), the 2 Earl adapter fittings he listed (and that’s in the article), and 10 feet or less of –6 hose should get it.

You may want to splurge on the GM O-rings for the fuel and return line and have those ready before hand. Mine were pretty worn and didn’t seal at 100%. While they didn’t leak fuel, new ones eliminated a faint gas smell.

FYI - I actually used the water neck from my 85 Monte Carlo SS,,, which I'm pretty sure is the same as the TBI as Bottled indicated. The Mr. Gasket part number listed in the article is a nice chrome water neck with a thick base (less likely to warp than cheaper chrome water necks). Most Ryans Auto Part stores have it.

Later.

92 zzz28

Thank you for the information, much appreciation. I would like to run an Aeromotive regulator, but I may just use the HSR AFPR kit instead. Again, thanks.

BOTTLEDZ28

iTrader: (9)

brad what fittings did you use to attach the braided line to the back of the rails and does the HSR come with a crossover tube and fittings for the front? Kevin is running 2 45 degree fittings to make it around the dist. I also need to mount a FP line on the back there also. My FP line is -6AN. Hopefully this is the last question. So far I have the correct fittings to convert my hard lines to braided lines. I just need to know what was put on the other end.

92 zzz28

BOTTLEDZ28

iTrader: (9)

I was looking for a more detailed answer like what angle they where.

Brad

I used 90 degree female -6 AN hose end fittings on the fuel rail, and 180 degree female -6 AN hose end fittings on the frame lines. The HSR fuel rail kit does come with the front cross over.

BOTTLEDZ28

iTrader: (9)

How close is the fitting to the distibutor on the passenger rail? I have to mount a T- fitting there to run my mechanical gauge that is mounted in my cowl. The only thing is,is that they only have T fittings that have all male ends so I have to come up with a way to get the T fitting in the rail. Do they sell a -6AN female to female adapter? I cant find them on the summit site at all. Also, the more fittings I put there the more its gonna bring the hose end out and I may not be able to use a 90 degree. Maybe a 45 will work on that side. Thanks for getting back to me though. Ill get this straightened out soner or later.

Kevin Gray

It sounds as if you could use a –6 to –6 male adapter with a 1/8” NPT port on the rail and add a –6 rubber O-ring to the rail side. That would add very little length over a standard O-ring -6 to -6 male fitting. No modification to the fitting is needed for an inlet (other than adding a -6 O-ring). As an outlet, if you’re picky, you’ll want to radius the end going into the rail. I think the Russell # is 67000 for that fitting if you want to take a look at it to see if it’ll work for you. I don't know the part numbers for the -6 O-rings.

If that won’t work for you,,, XRP (see the above thread link) has a good selection of specialty adapters and connectors as does Russell at http://www.russellperformance.com/automotive/index.html

Happy hunting!

BOTTLEDZ28

iTrader: (9)

Well, I just tried getting some fittings from the local speed shop and it seems that the 2 earls fittings that we need to convert the MM to AN are a special oder part. I have to pay and extra $10 for them and then pay shiping on top of that. WTF. Lets hope Summit has them in stock. Im also running into a problem getting my -4 AN fuel pressure gauge mounted. I need it to be mounted on the back of the passenger rail but there isnt a T- fitting that is -4AN on the bottom and -6AN on each side. Boy this is gonna be a friggen puzzle piece to put togehter. here is what Im looking to do: coming out of rail:-6AN female to -6AN female adapter, T fitting for gauge and hose, -6AN 90 or 45 degreee hose end. anyone know how I can get this "special" T-fitting setup to work?

Kevin Gray

Bottled, if I understand what you're trying to do, you can use the -6 to -6 Male adapter as indicated in my last post with the 1/8" NPT port. You'll need a -6 rubber O-ring for the rail side and a 1/8" to -4 male fitting to stick in the port (teflon taped - not all the way to the bottom of the fitting) for your gauge. That's about as tight a "T" as you can get. Relatively inexpensive. Only thing the gauge port might not be in the perfect location. The next cheapest thing is to use something like Russel's 670340. It's a swivel female -6 end (that can hook to the Holley supplied fuel rail fitting) with a -6 Male outlet and a 1/8" guage port (for the 1/8" to -4 fitting) that you could put the port exactly where you wanted it.

Now, I do remember one of the manufactures had a "run on" with a female -6, to a male -6, with a -4 male outlet (at 90-degees). I think it was one of the companies I linked you to already. It was quite expensive and longer than either option presented above.

BOTTLEDZ28

iTrader: (9)

I just got off the phone with Earls and they gave me a few different ways to do this. he told me they have as lotof new fittings and that I should use the new speed flex hose..He aslo told me I had touse those two MM to -AN fittings on the back of the rail and on the regulator. This is way too cinfusing right now. Im gonna end up spending $200 in fittings to get this to work right. from the picture on holey site,it looks like there is actually 2 brass fittings on thebackof the passegner rail. is this true Do I unscrew everything out of the rail or leave half of the fitting there?

Jza

BOTTLED: Would it help you at all to have a pic of the contents of the fuel rail kit all laid out? When is yours supposed to arrive?

BOTTLEDZ28

iTrader: (9)

My kit is suppose to arrive on thursday. But if I wait until then to look at it and then find out what I need I wont be albe to install it that weekend which is what my plans are right now.Im all set on the hard line part I know what I need for fittings there. If you have a picture of the rail and its fititngs laid out then that would be great.

How about those the Earls FP gauge adapters? Could one of thesethread right into the rail itself? Then I wil still have a -6AN male thread coming out and a port for the gauge? If I go that route then I gotta find a way to get my -4AN line on the adapter. Guys,Iknow Im being a pain but I want to get this right the first time around.

BOTTLEDZ28

iTrader: (9)

Will this fitting screw directly onto the rail? This is -6AN to -6AN

BOTTLEDZ28

iTrader: (9)

If the above will work then can I use this fitting next then a hose end fitting. part number in summit is EAR-100192 it is listed as -6AN to -6AN with a 1/8" NPT port

BOTTLEDZ28

iTrader: (9)

now if the above 2 fitins will work then i will put this pipe thread to AN adapter on the above fitting then screw my -4AN fuel pressure gauge to it

BOTTLEDZ28

iTrader: (9)

finally Iwill use either a 90 or 45 degree hose end depending on howmuch clearence I have with the dist.

BOTTLEDZ28

iTrader: (9)

what is the differnce between the swivel seal, uto fit, and the new speed seal fittings. Earls told me today ther newest line is called speed seal and should only be used with the speed flex hose. I was also told this was high recomended for this application because the new hose and fittings can withstand the impurities in todays new gasoline. Boy is this a can of worms.



Update: it seems both Summit and Jegs have to specialorder the 9894 fittings. Summit will get them on 3/26/03.

Kevin Gray

Did you buy one of the Holley kits - 185 or 186? If so, you don't have to worry about the ONE, repeat ONE MM to -AN fitting that fits the regulator, Holley supplies that. It also comes with the fittings and hardline crossover tube for up front and a male fitting for the inlet side of the rail.

Literally all you need is the -6 hose end to hook to the inlet side and the -6 hose end to hook to the regulator outlet. I don't know exactly what angles those will be for the Holley kits, but you local speed shop should carry those.

There are other places that carry the MM to -6 adapters. Try this site, they may have them.

http://www.anplumbing.com/shop/

Wait a minute,,,,, I think the HSR rail kits come with a plug for the rear of the drivers side rail. I'm 99% sure. If that's the case,,, all you need is a -6 O-ring to -4 male adapter,, and a 90 degree -4 hose end to hook up your gauge. If you have trouble finding a -6 O-ring boss (ORB) to -4 fitting,,, which you might, you can use a standard -6 male to -4 male adapter with a rubber o-ring on the rail side.

itsMikey

was kinda just skimming thru this thread and realized that the 3 pics of that really nice camaro is his sig xD lmao..HUGE

BOTTLEDZ28

iTrader: (9)

you mean my pics? You like them ?

talk about bringing a thread back from the dead.

vetteoz

iTrader: (13)

It's the #1 reference for HSR install; linked in the intake stickies above

RS Chris

The middle one is my favorite.