anybody have any pics of a wonderbar in a car? i wanna keep my eyes open at junkyards but dont know what im looking for, thanx!

 

http://www.spohn.net/index.cfm?fusea...t&contentid=25

 

Here's a pic from above, and one from below. It's the straight black rod that's in between the sway bar and the power steering cooler.

 

I got this from sethirdgen.org website

If you click on the link it will take you directly to the wonderbar install guide.

 

what exactly is a wonderbar?

it looks like a lower front strut tie bar

 

That's kind of what it is... it ties those 2 ends of the frame together up there, so that the steering gear and idler arm stay the same distance apart, and otherwise generally stiffens up that whole part of the car. That part of teh "frame" is not on the K-member; it's on the unibody side of things, so all that stuff up there is just a bunch of rather thin sheet metal. It can flex quite a bit.

 

no , it ties the front frame rails together, the drivers side rail can get cracks in it due to the stresses aplied from the steer box. it is also known as a "steering box brace"

import owners

 

sorry the better design of my import makes it to where I don't need a band-aid fix like you guys

 

your car is not a corner carver. hence no need for it. you really should get a lower strut tower brace for your's though. :lala:

 

not a corner carver??
give me some of that bong your smokin man
I would say this car was designed more for the turns then your f-bod


and still DOESN' need a band-aid fix :-p

 

They are not really band-aids..... the cars came stock with them.

Isint that like saying the rear axel is just a band aid to keep those darn pesky wheels from flying off the car?

 

not really
the bandaid part comes in because they didn't use another idea to mount the box, or use a rack and pinion unit so they didn't need the wonderbar.
but since they used an idea that needs one so the frame doesn't bend... that is a bandaid fix

 

OK there Tiger, if you are gonna try to compare thirdgens to your car and yada yada yada, you can just beat it. It's cool to have members on this board that don't even have thirdgens in the first place, but once they start doing what you are doing now it gets really annoying.

If you think you mazda is so cool, why are you on this site checking out our cars? As far as your car not being a corner carver, that is correct, not compared to the thirdgen.

Band aid and all, these cars pull .92 on the skidpad with 16 inch wheels, STOCK. You let me know when you do that, ok.

 

so your saying braces that are put on by the factory are "band-aid" so your mazda has no braces anywhere that are bolted on?

 

you guys suck

but yeah I'm sure my mazda has braces

and I know of at least one band-aid fix they used as well...
the susp on my rear is a semitrailing arm design
if I remember right it causes very bad oversteer through the turns
so mazda put designed a 4 wheel steering system for it that allows the rear wheels to toe-in/out based upon side load as well as accel and braking.
that would be another band-aid fix.

 

only if you ask nicely

and the 4wheel steering was done by nissan and toyota, so i think that might have been a trendy phase for the asian sports cars.

 

might have been

was only done on the 86-91 rx7 as far as I know and that was due to how the semi-trailing arm suspension works


don't forget honda did it as well in the preludes

where did toyota do it though?

and dewey you ever on aim anymore?

 

I read somewhere up there in the ridiculous ramblings that why didn't they put in rack and pinion? What's wrong with the setup we have now? I was watching a Nascar Winston Cup race a few weeks ago and was rather amazed to see what looked like a third gen steering setup. The steering gear looked exactly like ours and I thought, if Nascar is using that then it must be good. One fact I love about our cars is the lack of many of todays complex computer monitored sensors and mechanical parts. I think we might need some skidpad numbers here if we would like to make some comparisons.

 

dont think the type of steering system used would make much difference in a skidpad test
also skidpad is only testing static grip in a static rate circle on a flat surface at a static speed
another words it isn't really telling the full story
and doesn't really simulate a real world situation.


alright though here is a question for the susp guys here

what are pro and con of both steering box and rack&pinion?

 

yeah i am, usualy in the evenings, i am on all day at work too, but only a select few have my screenname i use at work

 

I've got a few pics of the installed brace.. they arn't too good though since I didn't have the car up in the air. This is of the brace I made though, so I don't know if it's what you are looking for.

http://www.geocities.com/tzfbird/WonderBar.html

 

Those skidpad numbers must mean nothing then to people like Car and Driver, Road and Track, and Popular Hot Rodding. If your car cannot pull a good skidpad what makes you think it's going to do better on the road?

 

ok must be a noob
I didn't say it means nothing. read the my post ONCE AGAIN and notice i said it doesn't tell the WHOLE story.

if you have to go through a s-curve, descreasing radius turn, off camber turn, a turn where the tarmac/road hasn't been taken car of you have a lot more to think about then just a raw skidpad number

again remember skidpad number is a static rate turn, on a good surface with almost NO variables to think about... at least little compared to the real world situations. where you have to deal with things outside of a static enviroment. static grip is fine and dandy, but when you have to worry how your throttle/brakes are going to load the suspension differently at different times through the turn, or how the pothole you see could throw your car around, etc; you would see that. as an extreme case here. think of an F1 car trying do run a course riddled with cracks, uneven pavement, pot holes and such is going to handle? prolly not very well. granted they pull some sweet *** skidpad numbers but there suspension is far too stiff for that type of road andthey will handle worth crap.

so again skidpad numbers are nice to have, but it isn't the whole story. and it almost seems as though some of you guys put way too much faith in just skidpad numbers without looking at other numbers avail like slolam numbers and such.

 

Okay I don't really want to get into the argument I'm just going to say this. I have taken my car down a windy road at very high speed. I honestly didn't think that it would be able to do it. Well it did, handled perfectly every step of the way. I was amazed. I'd put my car against any 5.0, new camaro, porsche or any other car for that matter. Sure I may not win but thing is I have confidence in the car to at least compete with any car out there.


Anyhow now I gots a wonderbar question. Anyone ever welded one in? Why don't people weld them in?

 

"your car is not a corner carver"

Um, nice thought and all, but I gotta side with the import on this one (I know, I know, I'm sure a V-8 just cried out in pain somewhere) the RX-7s are crazy in the road courses. Their light, well balanced SOBs, and high revvers to boot, which helps keep the speed up exiting those turns. Again, this is real world driving, not skid-pads. Our cars also do much better than they're given credit for, a few dollars in mods and these things are demons in the twisties. Sooo, not 100% sure why we're fighting. 3rd-gens=nice cars, RX-7s=nice cars, what am I missing?

 

Although the rack and pinion seems to be a more simple system in some respects, I think that recirculating ball is prolly the more heavy-duty of the two. Why else would it be used more on heavy trucks, buses, and the like? While I really don't know why one would be any better than the other, I can point you to a place that explains how they work better than I can.

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/steering.htm

Later,
Harry

 

also I was hearind something like rack&pinion seems to be more precise as far as racing,and gives quicker responce.

the old 79-85 rx7 came with them. ditched it in place of the rack and pinion due to better feel and feedback

 

This site= thirdgens
Not this site= imports

It's different when someone asks if RX-7's are corner carvers and we discuss that, but for a member to say " my Rx-7 is more of a handler than your f-bod" is rediculous.

Rx-7's are that cool huh, I haven't seen them in SCCA trans am racing before, why is that? They are high revving? Don't only speak of your thirdgen when you talk buddy, all you need is rear gears. 3.73's were factory in some cars= high revs.

Skid pads tell you how hard you can push a car in real life, so actually those tests do count. A totally modded thirdgen with aftermart ( accesible) parts can do over 1 g on the skid pad. Do you guys know what that means! the only cars I know of that do that are on the level of the Ferrari F50, Lamborghini Diablo, and the McLaren. I'm sure there are others but I'm just pointing that out. Never heard of an RX-7 doing that.

 

ok now that Isee this

quick question?
you say my car isn't a canyon carver compaired to yours. what do you know about my car?
also read below for my opinion on skidpad numbers
and if you want to compare things from roughly the same year
lets pick a 93 rx7 with the R1 package. granted I don't put my world in skidpad numbers but lets see here
.99-1.02 on the skidpad
high 68-69mph in the slolam
braking in around 118feet
oh yeah this is stock.
but then again even though those numbers are almost right on with your z06 the car isn't a canyon carver oh yeah this is using small *** 225 tires also not the huge *** tires the vette uses.
so since you put faith in umbers and this car isn't a canyon carver I guess the vette can't handle the turns either?
honest I'm just trying to get things cleared up here

now with my car sure the numbers are a little lower here. skidpad is in the .89 range with slolam scores in the 67-68 range
but again just because the numbers are lower doesn't mean the grip isn't there
those are test numbers you are looking at not real world numbers.
ask anyone on this board who knows anything about these cars and they will tell you the rx7 wins as far as handling. though yes you have my slow butt beat in the striaghts

as for your asking why I am here if I think my mazda is so cool. it is because I like most of the people here. I love thirdgens. and I like to learn about the cars. what bothers me is when someone comes in when everyone here is just giving each other a hard time an tries to start crap ( YOU ). notice the faces. it is called joking around. and your trying to tell me I should leave?

just another reason to add to the list why some people don't like the chevy crowd. if you don't own a chevy you can't joke around with the chevy boys or somebody is going to start getting pissy.

 

rx,

don't get too bent out of shape, with 21,000 people there are always going to be disagreements, and people who argue about everything,

of course skid pad #'s aren't everything, most people know that.

but slalom isn't everything either, neither is the how my car handles over pot holes. rx7s excel at things, thirdgens excel at things alos, comparing the two is rediculous its apples and oranges.

and just for the record, if you have ever read info on supercars and comparisons, everytime the give the stats on the M5 compared to z06, jag, amg , ect, it is always .05 less on the skid pad, and 0-60 it is middle of the field, but everytime they hit a road course, its lap times are dead even with the z06 as king of the hill (so to speak).



BTW, i'll put my car (with 225 rubber) up against your rx7 at the slalom

 

hehe

I'm not too bent out
just in a wierd arguement type of mood
I just wish they could come up with a real world type number for handling but I don't think it is ever going to happen
and no kidding the thirdgen excels at things. my car is slow as shiz compared to them right now

the m5 is just about even with the z06 on the road course???
I didn't know that

hehe I would take ya on in the turns show you what a real racer is like... you will never keep up with my mad tyte ****ing yo

oh yeah if you want to talk to me on aim

rxspeed87

 

blah, you are never online i have you on my contact list

and i'll race you, the columbia gorge has better roads than idaho, you need to come to p-town

 

dude

I'm online now

usually one from 10am-3pm
then from 10pm-2am

and I would love to come there and see the roads
but then again a friend (muchwhitesmoke a.k.a. woohoo) are planning on doing a road trip one of these days