camaro_junkie

I'm going to replace the rag joint on my car. I bought a replacement disk kit made by HELP. I believe it's the correct diameter, but it appears to be bigger. It's a 7-layer disk, whereas the one on my car is 4- or 5-layer. Will the disk still work?

TomP

HELP makes a kit? What's the part# on that package?

ebmiller88

iTrader: (7)

I saw that piece also and it looks like a good part, lots bigger that the stock piece. let us know how it goes.

Ed

camaro_junkie

The part's out in my car. I'll have to remember to get back to you on that pn.

91Z28-350

bump. I'm looking for the pn and to know if it fits as well.

camaro_junkie

p/n is HELP #31002. I haven't had a chance to put it on, but I'll let you know when I do. BTW, this is a 2 5/8" diameter disc. There is a larger one as well.

TomP

Thanks for the part # dude!!! Let us know how it goes!! As soon as I finish my suspension rebuild I'll go pick one up!!

camaro_junkie

Ya, I'm working on getting the parts together for a suspension/steering rebuild as well. I have to decide between Moog and Suspension Techniques springs, and KYB and tokico shocks.

Zepher

iTrader: (1)

It's a pain to remove the stock one, but we managed to get it done on my friends 82 a couple of months ago.
We used the HELP one as well.

91Z28-350

Thanks for the PN.

Speaking of rag joints, is there a rag joint eliminator for 3rd gens? I know Unbalanced Engineering makes one for 4th gens.

Aviator857

Help or Motermite/doorman makes it I will look up the specific part number for our cars wedsday at work if its in the cat. Most stores have the big one that is for trucks but works on most GM cars/trucks.

TomP

How does it get installed? Sorry; haven't gotten a chance to go dig that kit up... does it come with instructions?

Zepher

iTrader: (1)

You drill out the old pins, remove the rag joint, put in new rag joint, and use the bolts supplied to put it all back together.

TomP

Bolts? Cool! I thought I might need some fancy rivet gun or something. Hm; maybe I'll stop by Pep Boys (Yeah like they'd have it ) on the way home. Thanks!

TomP

(jaw drops open) Well I'll be damned, Pep Boys had it (part #31002 for $9.95). Only comes with 2 bolts... strange.

I -also- bought the big replacement that Aviator857 mentioned!! The sucker was $40, huge & beefy, came with the splined joint-to-steering-box clamp on it, uses the same 2 5/8" diameter rag as part #31002, and YES it fits the steering box!! The rag is attached to the splined clamp with two bolts. Two bolts are provided in the other holes for attachment to the steering shaft. (Don't know why part #31002 doesn't come with 4 bolts!)

I'll post pics and a part # and other details later on when I install it along with my quick-ratio steering box. I bought both to make sure the "Ford F250-F350 truck" joint fit, because it was the last one. I was going to return #31002 (just the rag disc), but since it's an exact-fit replacement for the big $40 joint (same 7 layer disc!), I'm going to hold onto it as a spare.

Oh and no instructions are in either kit. The #31002 says on the back "for replacement without the expensive of buying a complete joint". The truck one IS the complete joint.

91Z28-350

I assume the truck joint a behind the counter item? What to ask for, F250 rag joint?

Thanks!

SLAYER6669

iTrader: (1)

o0o Good info here, I just replaced nearly all of my suspension, and got an alignment, and ever since the alignment the steering is insanely loose and the car is wandering all over the place, after I got in my fathers car and drove down the highway, I couldn't believe how much easier it was to drive and how much I was actually having to play with the steering wheel in my car to keep it straight.. Tom, what steering box did you go with? AGR or a replacement? Where did you buy and what pt#? I want a quick ratio box.. Sorry about getting off the rag joint topic, I plan to probably replace that too..

TomP

I got it a few years ago from a guy who had an '86 IROC as a parts car... casting number is 2600525 with a "Z" below the number.

I'll try to get pictures up and a part # tonight for the truck rag joint.

Aviator857

Motormite

This is off there site, motormite is the Help! brand. The Cat. I have at work didn't list them.

flyway190

I replaced my coupling assembly this weekend with HELP! part number 31008. It fit without any problems and cost about $40. I also looked at the universal replacement disc, it seemed like it would work also.

If you're changing this out only, it may not be necessary to do anything with the steering box. Once you unbolt the coupling from the steering box (that one tightening screw), you should be able to push the lower part of the steering shaft back toward the firewall enough to clear the shaft going into the steering box that it clamps onto (my steering shaft is telescoping in the middle). After that there's just that one bolt near the firewall holding the shaft in there. I don't know this for a complete fact though, as I was removing my steering box anyway. I'm not sure whether or not it would be possible to pull the steering shaft out of the car with the box in place or not.

Once I got the shaft out, I cut a slit in the bottom of that plastic cover, and pulled the shaft out of it. It had four rivets, two holding the coupling assembly together and two holding the shaft onto the coupler. If you're replacing the whole assembly you should only need to remove the two holding the shaft on. I used a punch to mark the center of the rivet for the drill, then drilled a small hole to just past the head to guide the larger drill bit. Then I drilled a bigger hole in it, just smaller than the diameter of the rivet itself. I took a chisel and hammered off what was left of the head. For the two rivets holding the shaft on, the same thing has to be done on the other side because for some reason they riveted both ends of the rivet. Once the head(s) were chiseled off, I used a punch and hammer to knock them out.

After that and I finished messing with the steering box, I reinstalled the shaft with the plastic cover back on, the steering box, and other related components I pulled the steering coupler back onto the box shaft and tightened the clamp back on.

Some additional notes:

- a bench grinder can't reach the whole head on each of the rivets, and using a rotary tool takes a pretty long time and would use up several grinding bits or cutting bits. A cutting wheel on a rotary tool probably won't be able to reach the bottom part of the head, and is difficult to keep straight.

- If you ever have to take the pitman arm off of the steering box, try a pitman arm puller FIRST. I tried many different kinds of gear pullers, an air chisel, pulling the whole thing apart, and different wedging methods before I went out and got that puller, and it took it off in about two minutes.

Sorry I didn't get any pics of the install, but I hope this helps.

camaro_junkie

I was wondering if anyone had any success with the HELP p/n 31002? I wasn't able to get the steering shaft out of the car, or the rag joint off the steering shaft. But I'll attempt it again this weekend.

Zepher: you said you did the rag joint with the HELP disk. Was it 31002. The kit only comes with 2 bolts, so I was wondering how you did it. Are two of the studs on the old joint actually bolts? Or are all 4 rivets? I'm going to email you if your email address is available.

Also, I found two complete GM compatible joints on the Motormite web site p/n 31015 and 31011.

91Z28-350

All 4 are rivets. I have 31002, haven't installed it yet. The bolts in the kit are kind of dumb. I'm just going to get some stage 8 3/8" bolts from Home Depot. I think 1" bolts should do it. 5/16" bolts will fit through the metal plates supplied in 31002, but they are too small for the rag joint holes.

camaro_junkie

Good move.

frogmanjohn

ok, at the risk of sounding like a total dumb@ss, but thirsting for knowledge. what is a rag link? and where does that part number 31008 go? what are the pros of the part? why should i replace mine? I will be replaceing inner/outer tie rod ends, drag link on my 89 camaro and am wondering about what you are all talking about to see if i should do it at the same time.

frog man

camaro_junkie

Wow, old post. The rag joint is what connects your steering column to the steering box. If it's never been replaced, you should replace it, but I'm not sure if there's a complete part out there to buy. If there is, it might be a lot of $$$. Some people have just changed the rubber disk on the joint which is what I will do. I still haven't done mine yet because it's hard to take apart. There is a plastic shroud on the lower steering column that's damn impossible to get off. I think one guy actually cut it off.

edit: Oh yeah, pros of replacing it... it might help a little or it might help a lot. It should tighten up the steering and make it a little more responsive.

SLAYER6669

iTrader: (1)

I got my HELP part# 31008 still sitting here on my desk I still never got it in yet.. For me the plastic shroud covering the rag joint is cliped around something I cant remember what but i just used some force and it pops rignt out and then it slides.. I took off the nut holding the rag to the steering box but I could not for the life of me get that shaft to "telescope" back so I could pull the shaft out.. After that it's just a matter of breaking the 2 rivets and bolting this one on.. So it remains here on my desk

camaro_junkie

The plastic shroud has a little clip around one of the power steering fittings on the steering box. That came off. Then I took the nut out of the joint. There was enough slop in the joint itself to get the joint disconnected from the box, but it wouldn't come off the shaft. I couldn't get the shroud off the shaft either to remove the whole shaft (to get the joint off) so I gave up.

usa1racing

Not to get off the subject too much, but I'm going to a junkyard tomorrow to look for an s-10 manual steering box. Will I be able to unbolt the box/pitman arm assembly from the car without trouble from the steering shaft? Will I have to drill rivets, chisel things, use a BFH, etc.?

84 1LE

iTrader: (9)

Heres my U-joint steering shaft.Made from various GM cars.I tried that help universal kit first,worked OK for a while,but they dont make a direct fit.Even GM doesnt make a kit,just the whole shaft.Lee manufacturing was suppose to make a rag joint with a steel mesh instead of the cloth(rag)between the rubber discs,Dont know if he ever made one for 3rd gens though.Im much happier with my home made version.Spent all of $8 to make it.

84 1LE

iTrader: (9)

Heres the other end.Also on the tube coming out of the firewall.There is a white plastic bushing that supports the steering column.I found out that ASTRO vans use an identical size,BUT the astro version is a BEARING not a bushing.Makes the steering feel much smoother.U-joints are from an asrto van also.(YES it will collapse.Just like the stock units do)

89 Iroc Z

I am bringing this back from the dead…

TomP,
Do you still have the part number for the fully assembled unit that you talk about above?
If not can you tell me which one it is from the links below.
http://www.motormitedormancatalog.co...otormitedorman
If the above link doesn’t work try this…
http://www.motormitedormancatalog.com/buyerbrowse.epc?

TomP

I'll try to remember to check tonight... if I can find the thing! I tried looking before for someone but it got lost around the workbench somewhere. (oops) Oh, I know, I'll set an alarm on my cell phone. I looked at the pics but couldn't tell- and I'm sure you want a definate answer. I actually slid that full joint over that steering box of mine, and it fit exactly. Uh, and no, I never put the box on... another oops!

TomP

Hey, sweet, that cell-phone-reminder thing worked! I remembered- AND I found the sucker in the basement. Part number for the full joint is HELP 31008. Here's a closeup picture of it. Note that the two threaded bolts you see are what would connect this joint to your column. And the original "rag-only" part, # 31002, is a direct-fit into 31008. As I said before, I bought both... in case this new full joint ever wears out, I can just replace the rag without hitting the parts store again.

TomP

Hey- actually, Slayer gave that part number earlier- he just didn't say it was the full joint.

89 Iroc Z

!!

RBob

iTrader: (1)

Would you elaborate a little on the AstroVan bearing? Is it a one piece item such as the stock plastic bushing? And would you happen to have an application year?

I plan to use that bearing and would also like to buy it new. The additional info will help.

I must say that is a slick setup. I've seen the Astro U-jointed stuff in the yards but never thought to use it.

RBob.

ebmiller88

iTrader: (7)

I think I'll try the Astro van parts.. I've got a lot of play in the Iroc's steering at the moment. I'll do this swap and also adjust the steering box and see how it is then.


Ed

84 1LE

iTrader: (9)

This is the bearing .It mounts inside the tube coming from the firewall.The bearing to the right is what it looks like from the other side (notice the bearings, f-bodys are completely plastic.Make sure you also take the retainer cap & clip from the astro.I dont know what years have this ,but every astro van Ive looked at always has it.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

84 1LE, thanks, the pic helps a lot. After 105K miles the original piece has a lot of play in it.

RBob.

JPrevost

<--- can't even figure out how to disassemble the shafts, lol. Please help me before I go insane.
Do I need a 4th gen column or can this be done with the astro van and 3rd gen stuff? I ask because it sounds like the only difference is that the 4th gen is a pass through bolt compared to the side clamp of the astro van. I'm going to drill through the side clamp and make it a pass through for obvious reasons.

84 1LE

iTrader: (9)

--JPrevost--sent you a PM)You dont necessarily need the 4th gen item,but it helps.The only diff is the location of the bolt.The 4th gen is the same design as the 3rds.The astro piece MAY have clearance issues?.Personally i like the f-body pass thru design better than the clamp on method of the astro.In the pic is the 1st one i made(middle)compared to the stock.What i forgot to do was clock it correctly.Also i need to swap the U-joints to opposite ends,otherwise it came out fine a works.

84 1LE

iTrader: (9)

Here a close up of the flat sections of the steering shaft.they face opposite ends in both units.Aslo you can just see the flat spring in the(new) camaro steering shaft.Dont forget to keep the bigger of the 2 dust covers(top one).Also take the bearing for the column shaft tube coming out of the firewall.The pic of that is a couple post obove.Much better than the crappy plastic stock bushing..

84 1LE

iTrader: (9)

Heres a close up the the small end(goes to steering box).Where the pencil is pionting is where the pin was ground down(after u-joint was installed) on the stock 3rd gen unit(this was originally on the firewall facing U-joint.There are No splines on this end(round) to match the atro piece.So you either enlarge the u-joint hole & cut down the dia. of the shaft for fitment OR have someone cut splines ito the shatf(if its even possible).You can also barely see where the u-joint was notched to line up with the pin.This is where i wnet wrong & didnt clock this correct.After you do a mock install carefully mark on the U-joint.Where the pin butts up to it.Then remove & notch the U-joint so the pin slips in(only about half needs to fit,grind off the rest).I did this for TWo reasons.To hold the U-joint in place since there are NO splines & to locate a way to clock it correctly.This was my first attempt.Since building a 2nd unit.I have put over 12K miles without a problem.Also you may have to apply some spot welds to the brearing caps after you re-install them if center punching doesnt hold them in.Recheck this after a few miles/days of use.

JPrevost

84 1LE, I'm a little confused about the u-joint at the steering box end. Are you telling me that the only thing holding the u-joint from turning is a half ground off pin and a notch in the u-joint? If so, I can't trust it. I'll either drill through the joint and bolt it or weld it. I can't trust that it might pull out and leave me to free-wheel on the highway.
I hope I'm not understanding you but you said it doesn't have splines so I'm fuzzy about all this. Just finished dinner and was going to go rip into the astro van shaft but I only have 1 thirdgen shaft that appears to be in decent condition. If you could clearify the safety issue of not having splines a bit better I'd appreciate it. I have access to a welder and I might just drill through the joint and shaft and bolt them in for added security.

84 1LE

iTrader: (9)

I knew id forget something.YES its welded at the pin to U-joint & also on the end.Between the two U-joint arms.It is also pressed in.This method hasnt given me ANY problems in the 12k plus miles its been on the car.As for the splines the astro van shaft & the small U-joint(in the last pic) have splines,BUT the camaro shaft DOES NOT.So you either cut splines into the camaro shaft for the U-joint.Or remove the splines from the astro U-joint so the camaro shaft can be pressed in.Let me know if you have more ??s

JPrevost

Good, that makes me feel better, lol.
I wonder if there is a shaft out there that would just bolt right together, splines and all. All the newer vehicles have these crumby knucke joints. They're okay but I like the u-joints a lot better .

iggy1991

I'm also replacing my rag joint but I can't seem to get the steering shaft off of the column end of the shaft. Any hints would be really nice.



Someone above mentioned that there are 2 adjusters on the steering box. I know of the one thats right on top of the box but where is the other one that is below the steering shaft, something that has a spanner nut on it???? Where is it and how do I adjust it?

84 1LE

iTrader: (9)

If your just removing the steering shaft from the car & not refering to taking it apart.There is a nut/bolt on the column end.Just remove them & it'll slide off.At most you may need to tap it off........

camaro_junkie

Well if you successfully get the protective shroud off (which requires rotating the ps pump out of the way on the V6, not sure about the V8), you can muscle the rag joint off the steering box. Then IIRC you should be able to easily separate the lower steering shaft from the upper by moving the sleeve off the joint and removing those two little spring strips (although I never made it this far so correct me if I'm wrong). From there it's simple to replace the rag joint and then just reinstall.

edit: Now that someone has managed to post before I hit the post button, I remember the bolt on the steering shaft near the firewall. My downfall was the protective shroud.

iggy1991

Yeah I had to apply a little more force to get it off. It just got hung up.

Someone above mentioned that there are 2 adjusters on the steering box. I know of the one thats right on top of the box but where is the other one that is below the steering shaft, something that has a spanner nut on it???? Apparently is adjucts teh worm shaft. Where is it and how do I adjust it?