well since i didnt get an answer in my other thread ill use up more bandwidth to change the thread title...


CAN YOU USE AN ACETELYN TORCH ON THE OFFEST BLOCK TO EXPAND IT ENOUGH TO REMOVE A BROKEN PUNCH...

 

I doubt it.

I'd try drilling it out; start with a very small drill bit, make sure it's absoltely centered and lined up; grind off the top of all the mess with a die grinder and center punch it to make sure; and use successively larger drill bits until it's competely removed.

 

Over the past few days ive tried everyhitng i could to get it out...i used vise grips to try to twist it out and that just marred the punch...i put some heat to it and the MF'er broke off in the block..so i sat there for about 35 mins and was about 1/16 of an inch in drilling it...so i got ****in fed up and tried to drive it far enough were i could get the block off some how and well that didnt work...this morning i called hanlon motorsports and bought a new shift rail for 22.50 tax and shipping included...when i got off work i proceeded to take a cutoff wheel to it and all was well...
when i got the tailhousing off the rear bearing race slides out a little and causes some play between the input and mainshafts...
when i turned the input a heard the distinct noise of metal peices hitting the bottom of the case....after i got the input off what was left of the 15 needle roller bearings fell into my hand...heres some pics

 

#2

 

last one

 

If that is what the roller bearings look like, I bet the mating surfaces, inside of input cup and tip of main shaft are really scarred up. If that is the case your talking 350-450 to replace the shafts. (If you can even get a new main shaft, their getting difficult to find WC Main shafts, oddly enough non WC can still be had pretty easily) I'd consider another trany if that is the case.

 

If you lok close in the first pic thats the end of the main shaft...

and actually the inside of the input cup wasnt damaged at all


im going to be very unhappy if i have to replace this tranny...not becasue i have to fork out some money, but becasue i didnt get to REALLY break it.....
can the tip of the main shaft be polished and ill just throw a new set of roller bearings in there and save up for a new tranny....

 

I doubt you'll be able to repair that shaft. It's hardened REAL hard, and I know of no way to get it that hard that would cost less than another one. You can get somebody to weld it up and grind it down, probably not too expensive; but the heat-treating is a different matter.

The reason it failed like that was the pilot bushing. I'd bet if you look inside the crank, you'll see that it's at least 1/8" bigger then the pilot tip on the clutch gear.

Here's what it looks like with some appropriate image processing.

 

And incidentally, the countergear teeth are trashed too, from misalignment. You can see the groove worn in them by the toe of the clutch gear teeth, about halfway up the drive side of the teeth.

I'd say it's time for another transmission. That one is beyond economical repair.

 

its hard to tell in that pic but the roughness to the mainshaft is the metal from the roller bearings caked on there...like the mainshaft had a nic in it and it would act like a cheese grader everytime it spun grinding enough metal off the make them all square

the failure part has me a bit confused...let me see if i understand you..on the end of the input shaft past the splines is a machiend tip like on the end of the mainshaft...the splines go into the crank and the tip rides in a "race" at the end of the crank hole were the input goes into...so if that little race is bigger then the tip then only the splined part of the input is supported?...

 

Damn....that's what the inside of the original V6 T5 looked like in the SC - after I hammered it apart. The input and main shafts had become 'welded' together, and the teeth on the transfer gear of the input shaft had been totally chewed off. The trans was essentially 'stuck' in fourth no matter where the stick was.
The cause? I only drained about ½ cup of fluid out of it - that's all there was in it.

 

F-crazy:

That's exactly right. The clutch gear is supposed to be supported at 2 points: the pilot in the end of the crank, and the front bearing in the front of the trans case (the big hole at the left of that pic). The mainshaft is also supposed to be supported at 2 points: the rear bearing (at the rear of the case where the extension housing bolts to it), and the drive shaft yoke by way of it slipping into its bushing in the extension housing and the mainshaft sitting in the yoke. That bearing between the 2 shafts isn't supposed to be doing any real "work", like holding the clutch gear straight; all it's intended for, is to stabilize the relationship between the clutch gear and the mainshaft. The clutch disc, i.e. the splines on the clutch gear, aren't supposed to hold the gear in place; it's the other way around. The gear, supported by the pilot and the front bearing, is supposed to hold the disc in its proper place.

If either the crank pilot or the extension housing bushing wears out and allows its shaft to wobble around, or if either the front or the rear bearing goes bad (very very rare), then that little set of rollers will be massively overstressed, and the result will be as you see in the pic.

The problem with that mainshaft, is that in addition to the metal from the rollers being caked up on there, the tip of the shaft is pitted too; you can clearly see in the pic where the rollers ran and where they didn't, and where there's pits that are below the unworn surface. And beyond even that, the metal of the shaft itself has been heated up red-hot or more and has turned beyond blue, and lost its temper, so now it's not hardened like it was any more.

 

This motor was behind my LT1 and when i put the tranny in the hole in the crank was bigger then my LB9, and i honestly didnt think anything of it...i guess that 2nd gear 3,000 rpm clutch dump wasnt the best idea ehhh lol...and the thing is when i didnt it it didnt make any noises and after another 40 miles or so it started making some noise...(marbles in a washing machiene sounds close)...going back to your first post, could i have someone grind that down to specs and polish it....so i can atleast have a car to drive so i can save up for a tranny...obviously it wont be heat temperd anymore so itll be weaker, but will it work (wont be going to the track and no more dumps) untill i get enough greenbacks saved up?
since the pilot tip wasnt supported in the crank could that of been the clutch problems i was having?

i really appreciate your assistance

Rob

P.S. maybe i should tell everyone that runs an LT1 with there T-5 its not a good idea becasue the clutch gear doesnt have any support and itll destroy your mainshaft

 

So, does your LT1 even have a pilot bearing / bushing in its crank? If it was originally in front of an auto trans, it probably doesn't even have one at all, and that would explain why it trashed the trans.

 

you wouldnt happen to have a picture of one would ya? i know theres a little "cup" in there that looks like a swimming pool were its deepest in the middle, but its a lot bigger then the pilot on the end of the input...but as far as a bushing for the pilot tip, im gonna go ahead and say that im almost 100% positive that there wasnt one in there...and i wasnt told if it was hooked to a 6 speed or an auto

 

Ask and ye shall receive....

This particular one is a bearing. They also make bronze bushings that are the exact same size.

If the engine had been in front of a T-56, it probably would have had one.

 

well i can say that it DEFINETLY did NOT have one of those
i dont even think my LB9 had one of those

when looking at that pic am i correct in saying that when the splines are in the crank and the pilot is supported in the crank that the input shaft bearing retainer rides on its little beveled edge?.....

 

Not quite.

The smooth part of the tip of the clutch gear in the pic, beyond the end of the splines, plugs into the bearing in the crank. The part of the tip that's a little more rusty than the rest, rides on those little rollers. The throwout bearing slides back and forth on the clutch gear bearing retainer, behind the clutch splines. The splines on the clutch gear are where the clutch disc rides. So when it's all put together, the bearing retainer fits tight into the large hole in the bell housing, and the tip of the clutch gear goes into the pilot bearing, and the clutch disc is in between the flywheel and the pressure plate.

That's actually 2 pics of stuff laying around in my garage; one of a motor I have sitting around, and one of a bunch of T-5s sitting on a shelf. They're almost the same size. The one of the trans is a little bigger scale than the one of the engine: the inner diameter of the pilot bearing is actually the same as the outer diameter of the pilot on the trans clutch gear. It's a pretty tight fit, within a few thousandths of an inch I'd say.

You definitely had some sort of pilot bearing in your factory setup..... either a roller bearing like this, or a bronze bushing.

 

ohhh ok i see what your saying now....Basically the input was held in place by the flywheel/clutch..that probly explains my clutch problems

i went and looked at my LB9 today and sure as mmhmm it had one in there...the "swimming pool" as i called it lol was the same but there was this little bushing pressed in there....it did NOT have the roller version like u posted but it felt like it had a little very thin raised peice of metal, about an opening the size of the input pilot..i also noticed that it was NOT perfectly circular..It seems like the input was already starting to wobble and i just now recalled when i rebuilt it 200 miles ago that the input had some play in it and the spacer behind the input retainer was pretty hammerd..Then i put more power through with no pilot bushing



BTW, you wouldnt be intrested in clearing up some self space would ya? im looking at T-5's on ebay right now and theres 2 of them that claim to be WC but both list different tag numbers..i asked the guy for a full frontal shot but well see if he has one.


Thanks again,
Rob

 

i found a couple WC's one in PA and the other in georgia both 600 bucks....i called hanlon motorsports and checked for a mainshaft price...Mrs. hanlon told me that they could turn the end of the mainshaft down to the size of the SVT Cobra tip and instead of it floating on the roller bearings it would sit in a pilot bushing in the end of the input...she said its about as twice as tough as the roller bearing setup

300 bucks for the mainshaft upgrade a new input, bearings and a new input bearing retainer...then 22 for the shift rail and 13 bucks for the roller pilot bushing for the crank...

 

That's a worthwhile upgrade and will add strength like he said. But, re-read what RB said about your tran.

 

i know he said that the clusters are scarred, but it doesnt have to last for ever ya know...probly not even the rest of the summer..

 

why pay 350 plus for something that will only last the summer. I'm willing to bet that is moe than half what you could find a good tranny for if you looked around, but hey, its your money man, not mine..............