bamaboy0323

iTrader: (1)

Would someone be willing to help me and evaluate my tunerpro logs? Can't get my car to run right. Had a high idle and now that is taken care of but my timing is irratic and idle is rough. Any help would greatly appreciated, thanks. I'll try to answer any questions the best that I can.

bamaboy0323

iTrader: (1)

Here are some measurements that i can remember. Idle is up and down, rough idle. 1992 Camaro TPI. These are all at idle.


RPM: 8-900
MAP voltage: 1-1.7
MAP kPA: 33-39
Loop: Open
O2 Volts: 350-450
O2 xcounts: 100-222
BLM: 128 all the time
Integrator: 128 all the time
Spark advance: fluctuates from 26-19 a lot
FPT: 11.30-14.7

ULTM8Z

You can send it to me...

ultm8z@yahoo.com

Do you ever get into closed loop? If not, that's certainly an issue...

But if you do, please send me data from closed loop operation and fully warmed up.

bamaboy0323

iTrader: (1)

I'm new to tunerpro but at what point should it go into closed loop? I never let it run longer than a minute because of the amount of knocks that occur and i'm scared i'm going to mess something up. I don't have any logs of it in a closed loop.

ULTM8Z

I'll have to look at the code for standard $8D. CL is based on temperature and engine run time (and whether or not your sensor gets hot enough- which gets problematic if you're running full length headers and a non-heated sensor).

bamaboy0323

iTrader: (1)

I sent 2 log files to your email

ULTM8Z

So on a cold start, for AUJP (350 auto) the ECM will run for at least 190 seconds before entering closed loop. On AWFU (305 Auto I believe), it'll run for 130 seconds before entering closed loop. I'm not sure what your set up is, but it'll probably be somewhere around these numbers.

Min temp for closed loop looks like 45C. So you're making the temperature, just not the time.

One of your logs is ~75 seconds long and the other is ~30 seconds. So not surprisingly neither of them went into closed loop.



Anyway, yeah, I'm seeing the knock retard kicking in... knock counts are just going up and up.

On the "Final test after cleaning" and it's pulling about 6 deg of timing out the advance.

But on "Final test", no timing is being pulled, but the knock counts are going up.

Have you verified your ignition timing with the EST disconnected? It should be set to 6 deg, per the factory calibration.

Are you getting any noticeable misfire? Maybe one cylinder is running so lean it's starting to detonate?

bamaboy0323

iTrader: (1)

350 tpi, vortec heads, zz4 cam, edelbrock headers with 3 inch exhaust, t56 tranny.


The timing is dead on 6 degrees with est unplugged. With it plugged, it flucuates from 10-20 or so.

ULTM8Z

Are you running a heated O2 sensor?

Also, are you sure the knock sensor is correct? I understand there are differences between say a 305 version and a 350 version... Is it installed to tight perhaps? I'd be surprised if you were getting actual detonation at idle speeds.

bamaboy0323

iTrader: (1)

I actually got a new O2 sensor but now that i look at it, it's non heated. I had 1 in the headers before and was told to replace it but it's doing the same thing with the non heated one. The 1 in before was more narrow than the non heated 1. The knock sensor is new and is for a 92 350. What are the torque specs on the knock sensor? I think i may have an exhaust leak, could that be causing the knock to go up?

ULTM8Z

knock sensor torque... 14-15 ft-lb (at least for me) is just hand snug... certainly not cranking on wrench.

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tpi/...ck-sensor.html

http://www.camaroz28.com/forums/lt1-...e-spec-791459/

http://ls1tech.com/forums/generation...ck-sensor.html

I don't think an exhaust leak is going to cause anything to impact the knock response of the ECM... it's looking for high-frequency sound pulses echoing through the block.

Definitely get a heated O2, or you'll probably never get into closed loop at idle speeds...

bamaboy0323

iTrader: (1)

I let the car run and it finally went into closed loop but it went into closed loop right when I turned the car off. I torqued the knock sensor and my knock stayed at 2 for the 4 minutes the car was running. My spark advance was all over the place. Anywhere from 17-38 or so.

It went into closed loop at 253 seconds of running and 126 degrees.

ULTM8Z

Hmmm... are you running a factory bin? It's curious that your timing is all over the place. If so what mask? AUJP? AWFU? I have those bins. If it's a custom bin, can you send to me?

Your knock counts problem seems to have been solved with the remove and re-install of the sensor.

So if you're not hearing anything audible like pinging or knocking, I'd let it run a little more in closed loop and get that data. It'll be much more telling once the ECM starts trimming fuel one way or the other.

So far in open loop, everything except for the timing looks pretty normal.

How's the idle quality? I'd expect a very smooth idle out of your set up.

bamaboy0323

iTrader: (1)

I had a chip burned specific to my setup. I didn't burn the chip so i don't have the bin. I have popping and knocking at the moment so i'm really hesitant about letting it run for too long. The idle is very rough at the moment. Could bad valve lash cause the rough idle and crazy timing? I popped the valve cover off last night and one of the rockers was pretty loose. I didn't look at the other side that seems to be where the noise is coming from.

ULTM8Z

Do you have the factory chip? I'd put that in and run it as a baseline. The least amount of variables you have in diagnostics, the better. Besides, for idle verification, your setup should run pretty decently with a factory calibration.

The valve lash wouldn't really affect the ignition timing. However, if you suspet you have loose rockers, DEFINITELY reset the lash.

bamaboy0323

iTrader: (1)

I havent tried it with the factory chip but i didn't think i would be able to start it because of Vats. This was a tbi to tpi conversion. Sorry if I didn't include that in my original story.

JP86SS

iTrader: (1)

Who made the chip for you?
They need to answer how the factory 800 rpm idle limit is being exceeded and why all the spark jumping. There are settings to reduce the jumping at idle.
Check your distributor and gear for excessive wear/play also if the chip is ruled out.
Its best if you learn to burn your own or all the advice in the world can't help.

ULTM8Z

ULTM8Z

Definitely get your knocking noises resolved first. Once you can comfortably get into closed loop, go ahead and send me the data logs and I'll be happy to review them.

bamaboy0323

iTrader: (1)

I got the chip from John Wayne.

EDGE

I had more or less the same problem as you. I've since reverted back to the factory MEMCAL and all is well. I'm going to learn to burn my own chip. I lost money basically, because my car did not run well at all.

bamaboy0323

iTrader: (1)

I took the custom chip out and my car actually started. I think it may have the VATS bypassed. I ordered the chip because I though I needed VATS bypassed lol. It still runs like crap.

bamaboy0323

iTrader: (1)

ULTM8Z, I sent you more logs to your email. thanks

ULTM8Z

I got them. I'll try to take a look at them this weekend.

bamaboy0323

iTrader: (1)

Thanks a lot bud. I'm not sure what else to try to get my car running right

ULTM8Z

Some observations (maybe someone on this board can help interpret)...

1.) With the stock chip and in open loop, I'm noticing that the commanded AFR starts getting unstable and bouncing around between 14.2 and 15.2.

2.) I'm also seeing you have 0 IAC steps which means the IAC stepper motor is fully closed. Which could mean one of two things... either your throttle blades are open too much, or you have a vacuum leak some place (which could be the cause of your issues). Basically the engine is getting all of it's idle air supply from somewhere else besides the IAC.

3.) When you get into closed loop, the ECM whips the AFR into shape and you stay consistently at 14.7, and the BLM stays at 128.

When I plot the MAP sensor and commanded AFR in open loop, the oscillations track eachother perfectly (which I guess I would expect). In open loop, I believe AFR is determined strictly by the MAP value (per the open loop tables), so a vacuum leak could be impacting the open loop AFR. Low MAP = high AFR, and vise versa.

However, in closed loop, the stoichiometric constant is what the ECM abides by (outside of power enrichment). So if the leak is only affecting the passenger side of the engine (i.e., an intake runner flange or something), the ECM wouldn't see it (O2 sensor is on the driver side) and would be trimming only against the driver side. So in the end, your car could "run like crap" despite the ECM thinking everything is ok.

BTW, I didn't see this behavior with the custom chip, so I'm not sure what to make of it w/o seeing the calibrations myself.

The only thing confusing is that the maximum numerical value for open loop AFR in the AUJP code for any operating temperature and MAP is ~14.2 I believe. So I'm not sure how or why the ECM is commanding a ~15.2 in your case.

Can you run through the standard IAC adjustment procedure and rule out the excessive throttle blade opening?

BTW, your knock count issue came back... but let's rule out any possible lean condition causing a misfire before addressing that.

bamaboy0323

iTrader: (1)

I have done the IAC adjustment multiple times and have even purchased a new one. Could an exhaust leake at the headers be causing a bad 02 reading and causing the rough idle?

bamaboy0323

iTrader: (1)

So I was resetting the valve lash again and I noticed the #8 intake lifter felt weird when I pushed against it with the pushrod. Decided to take the intake off and noticed the lifter in 4 pieces. It doesn't appear that the cam lobe is worn so I'm hoping new lifters will fix my idle issues. What would cause a new lifter to break like that? Valve lash set too tight maybe?

bamaboy0323

iTrader: (1)

I also noticed that some of my spark plugs had some carbon buildup and notice that my header gaskets had some carbon buildup on them around the #3 and #5 cylinders.