87SC/SS

Hi Everyone,

I know many of you have installed roll bar/cages in your thirdgens. I'm currently installing one in mine. I went with a Chassis Engineering 8 point of which i'm only going to use 6 points - not using the front supports (at least not yet).

The car doesn't need to be NHRA certified, it won't run any quicker than 11.0 in it's lifetime. The purpose of the roll bar is most importantly safety, but also chassis rigidity. I do have weld in subframe connectors also.

Here are a few pics of where I'm at:

Main hoop tacked in place


Base of main hoop


Proposed location of rear brace 1


Proposed location of rear brace on hoop 1


Proposed location of rear braces on hoop 2


Proposed location of rear brace on frame rail in trunk


The rear seats won't be going back in. I cut the seat pans out and welded in a flat plate so I could run a pair of mufflers for true dual exhaust under where the seats were. This allowed me to put the main hoop back pretty far. This way if I got into an accident on the street I would'nt have to worry about cracking my head on the hoop, but if the car ever rolled it wouldn't collapse on me. Right now the hoop is just tacked in.

I'm trying to figure out where the best place to put in the rear braces is. I was thinking of on top of the frame rails in the trunk. I wanted to get your opinions on this before I made anything permanent. Also I'm debating on whter to tie the frame supports (the ones that come off the hoop and go at an angle to the inside of the hoop) into the floor, or into the back wall where the seat back would normally go.

I really appreciate any advice you guys have for me.

Thanks!
Brian

//<86TA>\\

iTrader: (14)

IMO putting bars that far back is a bad idea. If you get rear ended, they will push the main hoop into the back of your head. Drop them to just behind the rear shock mount, pretty much on top of the frame rail near the rear spring perch.

1MeanZ

iTrader: (9)

I'll second that. back stays in the cargo area are a terrible mistake, don't do it.

Also, the main hoop does not fit the car properly, it is too low and too narrow. It should be up against the roof sheet metal and out against the sides of the car. My main hoop is just low enough to shove the headliner through and the sides are actually welded to the sail panels. especailly if this is a car to be driven on the street, you need to get the bars as far from your head as possible.

AlkyIROC

Height of the hoop is the first thing I noticed also. Needs to be higher.

As for the rear tube positions, just about anywhere from the shock mounts and back will work fine. The downside to welding them in right near the back is the angle they'll need to be cut. Normally the ends will be bent to allow the tube to attach more upright for a better weld all the way around the tube. Just make sure you use the 6x6 plates to weld all the tubes to. An alternative is to weld a short section vertically then fishmouth the rear tubes and weld them to the upright. Cap off the end of the upright tube. It will be just as strong and you'll have better welds than trying to weld around the tube that's been cut on a very sharp angle. With the tubes at the rear and if you have a collision bad enough to push the tubes forward, I doubt there would be much left of the car anyway.

I was going to comment that you didn't need to weld in a floor to attach the plates flat for the main hoop but then noticed you say you cut out the floor for muffler clearance. If you didn't do that, the plates can be shaped around the floor and still be welded in. They don't need to sit perfectly flat just as long as they're still 6x6 in size.

Even though you have no intentions of running quicker than 11.50 where a roll bar is required, install it right the first time. If you ever intend on selling the car or running that quick, an incorrectly installed roll bar will have to be cut out and redone properly.

1MeanZ

iTrader: (9)

In the event of a rear collision we'd like there to be something left of his head regardless of the car, thats why back stays in a crumple zone is a bad idea. I've never understood what putting them back there accomplished anyway. If the concern is chassis rigidity they should go right above the shock mount as has been suggested.

87SC/SS

Thanks for the repies!

The hoop is about 7/8" from the lowest point of the roof - which is on the t-bar. I didn't have a headliner and figured it would be about 1/2" thick with the contours giving me 3/8" clearance. Here's a pic, I'm holding the tape measure at an angle, but it's really about 7/8".



Is that still too low? I didn't want it pressing on the headliner just have a slight clearance.

As for the sides, it's about 1 1/4 inches off the factory sail panel brace. I still intended to put the interior plastics back in, but now after seeing your pics I can see where the bar bows out is too low and not wide enough.



This is the way the bar came from Chassis Engineering. I'll call them today and see if they can help me out, maybe they can modify this hoop or bend me a new one.

Do you guys still think the bar is too low after seeing the measured pic?

articwhiteZ

iTrader: (56)

yours looks fine.
you dont. have to have it right up and touching. all the way around.

you need it above your head. and away from your helmet.
one rule of thumb is. will the rollbar padding fit nice and neat. with out cramming it in/onto the tube? (most padding is 3/4" thick)

with the head liner installed give it about 3/4" away from the Top hoop
any more then this and it will be a bit low.

in this shot.you can see the pasngr seat still sitting to high.(will be dropped to sit even with driver seat) (aftermarket seat install)
note: the only part i let touch is just at the bend. in the main hoop. touching black trim at the top of the door Jam.(see rub mark in paint on tube).and not touching to head linner at all. with pad.
the seat is also all the way back.. im 6'4"

this shot shows a bit more. (never used this set of seats.) just used to make brakets. car now has none recline Recaros in it.NOTE: how the seat sits lower. with the power seat rail ran all the way down for driver side.

this shot shows the main hoop and how it swings in on the sides. makes for a better fit for what i wanted.Moving the side bars in just a tad. drops the main hoop down. moving them out ups the top of the main hoop.fits the inside better also.. and the back bar makes room for the seats to go all the way back. for us guys over 6'3".
this is how i wanted My Car. this set of pics. do not show the swing out side bars. THIS IS HOW the car was running back in 1993

FSTFBDY

iTrader: (33)

I'll 3rd putting the back bars as close to the shock mount points as you can.

87SC/SS

Thanks for the replies everyone. I'm picking up the new main hoop today. The guys at Chassis Engineering asked me for the dimensions I wanted and bent one for me. I'll post an update as soon as I remove the existing one and tack in the new one.

FueledSoul

iTrader: (18)

I agree putting bars that far back is a bad idea

87SC/SS

I got my new hoop in. It's not quite as tight as 1meanz's but it's much closer. At the largest distance from the body, it's 3", but once the interior panels are back in, and the padding is on, that should tighten up considerably. I've left it long for now and it's mocked inplace with some 90* welder's magnets. In these pics it's pretty much touching the roof. ArcticZ, you said allow 3/4" for the padding, but I don't have a headliner yet, does anyone know how thick the headliner is on a T-Top car?







Thanks,
Brian

AlkyIROC

That looks better. It's nice to have them close to the sides but they would still need to be angled inward. If the tubes are too close to the sides, there's no way to get a good weld all the way around. That's where a custom bent roll bar/cage pays for itself. Costs a little more but fits exactly to your car the way you want it.

Where the tubes sit on your plates looks fine.

87SC/SS

Ok, so the hoop is finally tacked in. I made it to the scrap yard and found a piece of a t-top headliner to use to measure the height of the hoop. It fits quite well.



Now back to the original question on rear braces. Here are my proposed locations. They're directly behind the shock mounts, right above the frame rails.



I cut out the jack mount on the passanger side, and I'm planning to get use some 1/8" plate to box in that plate. This way it'll be mounted at the same height and angle as the driver side.



What do you guys think?

billybob6110

looks good so far do you have any pics of finished install?

87SC/SS

No, unfortunately, 2 years later and it's still not done LOL. Here's what I did for the rear stays though:





Before I started to finish weld the cage I moved on to the front suspension, which while I had that out started cleaning up the firewall and ran into a bunch of rust holes that the previous owner filled in with Bondo.

So... I have been replacing a bunch of rust and Bondo with metal and since I don't have the suspension in, don't want to finish weld the cage until its on the ground and straight.

Hopefully I'll be done before 2024 .

Brian

billybob6110

how difficult was it putting in the car? and did you weld the rear plates and bars with gas tank in the car?

87SC/SS

It wasn't difficult at all. I just took my time. I measured everything multiple times, cut, test fitted, cut some more, and test fitted some more until I was happy with it. I always marked my measurements and cut a little less than my measurements dictated. Then I would remeasure and grind while test fitting. I'm certain that the guys that do this all the time can do it much, much faster than I, but this was the first cage I'd ever installed, so I didn't want to screw it up.

The gas tank was not in the car when I welded the plates or bars in (and still isn't :-/ ). I wouldn't worry about the bars so much, but I'd recommend removing the tank before welding the rear plates in. The plates are 6"x6"x1/8" steel and welding that to the sheet metal created some pretty serious heat, not to mention heating the passenger side plate with an oxy/acetlynene torch to form it to the body.

If you've never done a cage before, and you want to do it yourself, I'd say have at it, but take your time and don't rush it. Remember its easier to cut metal than to add it back so double check everything before making a permanent change. I actually enjoyed doing it.

Night rider327

iTrader: (13)

I put a S&W 10 point cage in mine. The basic 6 or 8 point setup of cage was pretty easy. The main hoop, rear bars, and trans tunnel bars was not a prob at all.

The roof halo, front A pillar bars and joining the door bars to A pillar bars was a diff story for me. Those was on the harder side.

Yes I left the fuel tank in car when I welded in the rear plates.

At the time of install I didn't have a chop saw.. I used a metal cutting blade in a miter saw to cut bars to length and a 4.5" angle grinder to grind the fishmouth notches and angles beyond what my saw could cut.

LB9GTA

iTrader: (1)

Hey nightrider 327, do you have another pic of the d-bars behind the front seats?
And how you got them in with the rear seats still in the car?

I have a S&W cage as well

Night rider327

iTrader: (13)

Yeah I got more pics. I have over 1000 pics of my car in diff stages of the project. I use to have them all on webshots but the site went away. That really made me mad but that's another story.

The rear seats are pretty much just for 'looks', can't get in/out of them unless your skinny and very flexible. I did give my buddy's kids a ride around the block, and they fit in the back seat with the bars there. They was around 10-12 years old. (Yes before anyone says it, I know not safe to ride with roll bars in your face and head.. It was a on a country road,might see 5 cars on it all day long)

Night rider327

iTrader: (13)

Here's another good shot. It's hard to see but the rear seat bottoms do have to be pushed against the bars.

I also have the Jegster saddle mount torque arm, and the last bolt in the saddle mount goes through the 6x6 plates on the tunnel where the bars weld in.. Helping to tie/link everything together. I don't know if that helps any or not, but it sure can't hurt to have the torque arm saddle and roll cage tied together some.

billybob6110

thanks for the info sounds pretty staright forward

billybob6110

is it normal for the door bars to be that high? never installed a roll cage but on diff thirdgens there much lower.

Night rider327

iTrader: (13)

It all depends on the seat installed and driver and weather or not you are building for X set of rules.

NHRA says the door bar must pass driver at a point mid way between shoulder and elbow when seated.

With the aftermarket seats I have, I sit a little higher up. I also like to seat back more. I'm not tall (only 5'11") but I have a long torso. So with me seated in driving position I had a helper put door bar where it passed my side at a point half way between elbow and shoulder.

billybob6110

gotcha. cage looks good and like the swingouts

tvc 15

No door bars, but a tight fit to the car.

Night rider327

iTrader: (13)

Thanks man.. Yeah I wouldn't do the cage w/o the swingouts. At the time I put the cage in the car was still a daily driver and stayed as a daily driver for a couple years afterwards. Couldn't imagine climbing over the door bar every time getting in and out of car.